One of the reasons that I love writing the weekly Monday Meeting Notes blog https://theonyxpath.com/category/news/monday-meeting/ is the real dialogue that is possible in the comments. This week, there was a great comment expressing concern for the way some books are listed in the updates section of the blog with the same notation week after week. Here was my response to that:
If no new stage of progress is reported by the Dev to Rose, then we have only that info to give you. Different Devs have very different working methods- some have very tight first draft rounds, some dive in and work on the second drafts more. Others create incredibly in-depth outlines and then give the writers the freedom to exert their creativity. As the hub of all this, we at Onyx Central Command try and allow every Dev the room to create their approved projects in the way they need to in order to create the highest quality product. Sometimes we get projects that seem to drift along, and we need to adjust, but we always err on the side of the angels and allow creative room first.
This was basically a “here’s why” response which focuses on the specific logistics of one stage of a given book’s progress, because it was a single book stuck in a stage for awhile that sparked the comment, but talks a bit more about Onyx Path‘s overall philosophy of working with the Developers of all the various game lines we are engaged in publishing. What that sparked was an excellent dialogue between myself and the original poster, Hawthorn, about Onyx Path‘s priorities and goals:
Its great that you let Devs have a lot of creative control and all and this allows them to create great books, but you have to admit that contrasting Dev process that result can be frustrating to the fans.
(The Mummy line in the 18 months its been out has released 2 books (general release) and a pdf pack. Demons been out 5/6 months and is pretty close to matching Mummy’s book output already. Demons been very past paced in its production, Mummy’s been nothing but delays it seems.)
I appreciate that you give us a Monday update each week. Really I do, I’m a huge fan of the WoD both classic and new and have been for more then 10 years.
As a huge fan I am frustrated that it seems whenever the fanbase raises points about delays and inconsistencies in development that we get mention of the fact you, Rich, are the only full time employee and that “siding with the angels” for the line Devs means allowing them creative space and abolishing even the concept of deadlines its seems.
I understand you want to avoid the deadline/scheduling nightmare that was White Wolf in the old days. Having books come out with incomplete sections, scrapped sections and lacking polish because of scheduling must have sucked for sure. Likewise, I acknowledge that the best (by which I mean most polished) books for WoD (both versions) seem to have come out since Onyx Path started up.
However, do you think that maybe the pendulum has swung a bit far the other way now? Schedules and deadlines can be counterproductive if they are too strenuous or unrealistic. However abolishing them all together for a “get it done in your own time” approach is arguably not much of a business model and can be damaging to the products in other ways.
After all, how many times have you had to sit and read through people’s messages complaining about exactly the sort of stuff I’ve mentioned above? I’ve consistently seen scheduling stuff been an issue for fans on and off since this blog started. How many times have you had to write about it and address it in these very blogs?
If something is coming up that regularly its obviously and issue and something that the fanbase is concerned of and engaged with. I know you guys at Onyx Path pride yourself on your transparency and fan-feedback/integration. So please look at the number of fans seeing various delays to various books and lines (I can spot Exalted and W20 related ones in the blog today) and see if that’s something that can’t be improved upon.
Just to be clear before any other posters bite my head off. This is not a “I want this book now!” post. Its not about me getting a thing I want faster and being annoyed because I don’t have a new shiny thing to read and play with. Its about the basic recurring point of the issue that involves the seeming abolishment of schedules and deadlines from a company that is in a market that engages with that concepts heavily.
My response:
When did I bring up being the only employee in this conversation? When did I say that we have abolished schedules and deadlines?
The point is that when the Devs come to me and say “We realize we really can’t write the Charms for EX3 the way we planned because the whole game will not be up to the quality level it should be”- and they convince me of it- I’m going to say that we need to take the time to get it right. We plan on that and continue to have a flexible schedule based on quality decisions, not delivery dates. (And the current Deluxe W20 upset is based on a shipping partner not following through on their agreed upon duties as shipper, not because we gave them extra time for quality).
Writers, artists, developers, editors- all of them have deadlines. Some hit them and some need more time and we work that out- just like we did for 20 years with WW. We are constantly adjusting and working with all of our creative teams. The difference is- now you get to see those stops and starts right there in the Updates every week.
If I have to explain this every week to folks, then that’s what I’m going to do. We can not revitalize these game lines by prioritizing speed and shoveling out crap. And that’s not me going “Oh well, I guess we’ll just have to let them take all the time they want. They know best…” That’s me saying that we need to create art here if we want to return these lines to the greatness they deserve. And art takes time. So our policy is to give that time whenever possible.
Note that I said POLICY. It is a business decision. It is the way I desire to run Onyx Path. I could very well be wrong, and even though the books are cool and beautiful and innovative and truly fulfill the promise that was WW’s potential, the fan community gets frustrated and walks away and Onyx closes it’s doors and we’re done.
But we’ll have made some awesome books before we go.
So those were both pretty long posts. Hawthorn clearly had a series of concerns to express, and I wanted to cover the why’s and wherefore’s as fully as I could because Hawthorn’s comments deserved that attention. But I think we both exhausted ourselves, as you can see in the following exchanges:
I don’t really have a reply to that, beyond saying you are damn lucky you have a dedicated fanbase. Myself included.
I don’t know many companies that could make the policy model of “this is art and takes time” actually work in a practical business market.
Hope it continues to work for you.
@Hawthorn Fair enough, we can leave it here, then, with this one more thing. Taking a page from the awesome Peter Dinklage, I don’t think we’re lucky. Lucky implies out of the blue good fortune. No, we’ve worked hard, really hard, these past two+ years on the Onyx Path, and for more than two decades with White Wolf before that on building the worlds folk are fans of. We are blessed to have the greatest and most dedicated fans in the world. And that dedication deserves the highest quality projects we can create.
Also, do you mind if I cut and paste our discussion into another blog? I’m sure plenty of other fans would appreciate the conversation. Thanks!
I’m replying here Rich because it won’t let me reply to your last post.
I agree with you that luck might be the wrong word.
I do have more to say on the topic, but I realized it was all basically just my opinion on how things are and how they could be. I realized it was kinda pointless to bring up the points I had in mind. Mainly because:
A) You obviously have infinitely more experience in running an RPG company then I do. So I can only talk theory at best. You can talk practical experience, and experience pretty much always trumps theory.
B) As you said, the business model for Onyx Path is a policy you’ve decided on and embraced. Your faith in that model and continuation of Onyx Path operating on that model are not really things that can be debated. That’s the way the company is. That’s not going to change. All I can do really is play devils advocate and vent frustrations. Which is not really a worthwhile discussion at the end of the day.
I’m happy with you posting our discussion in another blog. I’m a big believer that fans should question and prod the thing they love rather then just unquestioningly following it. So if other people in another blog can get a kick out of that sort of thing. That would be awesome.
Could you link me to the blog in question?
Thanks,
Hawthorn
So that’s pretty much it. The reason I thought this was really a good exchange of ideas that other folks might be into reading is that a) Hawthorn felt rightly that the Monday Meeting Notes blog was a place where critical concerns would be discussed seriously, b) because it gave everybody a chance to hear what are probably some common frustrations voiced, and c) folks could read some overall policy reasons Onyx Path does what we do in regards to the balance between timeliness and quality, rather than on a book by book basis (which is always different for every project). I don’t think either of us “won” anything- the exchange of our thoughts on the matter was enough. And it was an exchange- I don’t think we convinced each other to change our opinions, and we both clearly stepped back from an argument- it just enabled both of us to express where we were coming from and why.
So thanks, Hawthorn!