Bones of Ice

Open Development, Werewolf: The Forsaken

Due to some unforseen circumstances, I’m afraid I can’t offer any Open Development for either Rites or Prey this week. Don’t worry, I’m not going to leave you in the lurch.

It will be a short blog, though. I’ve a lot going on — in addition to getting Idigam redlined, you might have noticed that we’re running a kickstarter for Book of the Wyrm 20 for Werewolf: The Apocalypse. I’m quite involved with that, having developed the book and all.

I know that back when we talked about tribes, a few people were interested in how we were tying the Spirit-Ridden in with the Storm Lords. Rather than saying “Eh, wait and see,” I have a better idea.

Here’s the first draft of the Storm Lords section.

John Murphy’s brilliant In the House β€” In a Heartbeat is from the 28 Days Later soundtrack and really gets across the way that the Storm Lords will. Not. Stop. Rather than offering a vote this week, I’m going to hold off until I’ve been able to use the result of last week’s vote. It’s only fair.

  39 comments for “Bones of Ice

  1. Octavo
    June 6, 2014 at 5:29 pm

    Sin-Eaters: “Claimed by the dead is still Claimed.”
    Oh shit. That’s true, isn’t it?

    • Manu
      June 6, 2014 at 5:49 pm

      I’m actually a little ‘eh’ about that bit.

      Sin-Eaters aren’t claimed; they made a pact, a Bargain, and they are still themselves. There is a huge difference there. A Spirit claiming you takes over your body and mind and does what it wants; a Sin-Eater is not that, it is not a Geist taking over. It CAN be, if your Synergy drops too low, but it’s not the default. And while I see why the Iminir might have thought that at one point, one would expect them to be better informed as a tribe by the 21st century.

      • Atavist
        June 6, 2014 at 5:59 pm

        Except they are claimed. The bargain isn’t a simple deal, they’re now sharing their body and soul with an unearthly half-spirit being. I would have considered them more Shartha, but claimed fits just as well. Because a person goes into the deal willingly doesn’t make them any less a claimed.

      • Pablo
        June 6, 2014 at 6:07 pm

        I don’t see how they’d be better informed, most creatures don’t go around telling their secrets or nature. And the Sin-Eaters are few and much more “exotic” than say, werewolves or vampires. I think it makes sense that they can’t tell the difference.

      • Bluegrass Geek
        June 6, 2014 at 6:11 pm

        To be honest, the difference between “I’m possessed by a spirit” and “I’m letting a spirit co-habitate my body so I can avoid death” aren’t all that different. Especially in the mind of Uratha.

        Which means it’s basically open season on Sin-Eaters. Would make for some interesting role-play situations, though. Assuming the pack lets the SE live long enough to chat…

      • Stew
        June 6, 2014 at 6:16 pm

        “Sin-Eaters aren’t claimed; they made a pact, a Bargain, and they are still themselves.”

        That’s what quite a few Claimed say as well. Why trust the word of the duguthim?

        • Manu
          June 7, 2014 at 1:07 pm

          Well, one would hope after thousands of years, the Uratha would have noticed the difference, someone would have gotten curious, etc. It also seems a little harsh on Sin-Eaters when you’ve previously gone out of your way to point out that werewolves and vampires coexist because they’re “predators who hunt different prey”.

          I was just hoping for a more informed relationship between the supernaturals of the world this time around; I find the fact that all these beings have been coexisting in the world and yet somehow actually know so little about each vexing, and always have.

          Alas.

          • Manu
            June 7, 2014 at 1:08 pm

            each other*

          • HuckleberryNorwood
            June 7, 2014 at 4:39 pm

            Much like how human cultures have existed side by side for thousands of years and we’re all perfectly well-informed about each other and accepting of each other’s differences, right? πŸ™‚

            Prejudice is a strange phenomenon and can color opinions despite all present evidence. And, as has been stated, the supernaturals are leery about interacting with each other, when they even know the other exists, much less sharing intimate secrets about themselves.

          • Atavist
            June 8, 2014 at 8:17 pm

            I don’t see how Sin-Eaters aren’t claimed. They welcomed an alien spirit into their body and soul and act, at least partially, upon its desires.

      • Charlaquin
        June 6, 2014 at 6:28 pm

        Whether or not they’re actually Claimed, they’re sure going to look like it from an outside perspective. Especially an Uratha perspective.

  2. Charlaquin
    June 6, 2014 at 6:32 pm

    Personally, I’m still not seeing the connection. Some great material in there, no doubt, but for me it didn’t really shed any more light on why the Storm Lords in particular would view the Spirit-Ridden as the deadliest prey. I mean, it kinda said that they mock spirit and flesh, and that it’s especially offensive to the Uratha, since they’re spirit-hybrids themselves… But I didn’t really see any particular reason why that would make the Storm Lords want to hunt them or consider them the most dangerous prey any more than it would the other Tribes.

    • Fion
      June 6, 2014 at 10:42 pm

      Because the Urged and Claimed are spirits who dared break Urfarah’s law and breach the gauntlet. The Storm Lords aspire to replace Urfarah in all things, and thus would see breaching of the most sacred law as an absolute duty to enforce.

    • Eric Christian Berg
      June 7, 2014 at 9:59 am

      Also, spirits looking for a vessel prey on weakness and the Storm Lords are experts at sniffing that out.

    • Blue Dragon
      June 7, 2014 at 7:19 pm

      I interpreted it that the Storm Lords viewed weakness as the principal threat, and the claimed, as the result of a weak willed mortal and spirit, are weakness personified.

    • StormLordFan
      October 17, 2014 at 12:55 pm

      I still *really* like the suggestion on the other post about Storm Lords having the Shartha as their chosen prey. It makes so much sense: who better than the only ones to defeat Father Wolf for the Iminir to hunt? I realize this is far too late, but I really love that option, and the Claimed make more sense offending the tribe concerned with Purity. It’s such a great hunt for them, and such an impossible task for the Lords. Oh well, I can at least run my games that way.

  3. Seidmadr
    June 6, 2014 at 7:08 pm

    I kinda see focusing on the ridden understandable. That is the greatest breach of the laws of Father Wolf. And that kind of thing is unacceptable.

  4. Tadanori Oyama
    June 6, 2014 at 7:19 pm

    Sweet. I am so down for this.

  5. Atavist
    June 6, 2014 at 7:29 pm

    I’m not a fan of the Storm Lords, or at least I wasn’t, but I like them a lot more now. I said something about this a bunch of blogs back but I really like the tweaks and fixes to the Tribes. Before I only picked Bone Shadows, and even then only because it was the most spirit-like, but between the specialized hunt and the depth of personality they seem to have now I see a lot more options available.

    Also, the embracing of the slasher mindset is just awesome.

  6. Brian Goubeaux
    June 6, 2014 at 8:15 pm

    Interesting. And they have opinions on the other denizens as well besides the Kindred and the Awakened. I wonder how they would take to Changelings, Prometheons, the Arisen, and Hunters in general?

  7. Abattoirista
    June 6, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    If Skolis is the oldest, how were those other wolves there to comment on the storm when he was born?

    • Nathan Henderson
      June 9, 2014 at 2:24 am

      Because myths are like that.

    • darkgloomie
      June 13, 2014 at 12:28 pm

      isn’t Skolis the oldest of those who joined Luna?

  8. Chris Borgars-Smith
    June 6, 2014 at 9:41 pm

    I’m not sure how Fenris-Ur could have commented on Skolis-Ur’s birth if Skolis-Ur was born before him…

    • Travis Stout
      June 8, 2014 at 6:39 pm

      It’s almost like these stories are oral folk tales that have been passed down in different and sometimes mutually-contradictory forms rather than an objectively true history of the time before. πŸ™‚

    • Nathan Henderson
      June 9, 2014 at 2:31 am

      How did Hephaestus break Zeus’s skull to free Athena, if Hera conceived Hephaestus in revenge for Zeus bearing Athena from his skull?

      Myths are like that.

  9. ForsakenInterest
    June 6, 2014 at 9:42 pm

    I’d actually have to see how the Hunters in Darkness play out to give a full opinion on the Prey. The write up for the Storm Lords is pretty good in itself; but currently still not feeling them as the apex predator of the claimed yet and I think it might be due to a predisposition from previous source material read.

    If the Hunters in Darkness Prey really makes sense, then I might shed that bias and read the Storm Lords with some fresh eyes.

    • Ephsy
      June 7, 2014 at 10:54 am

      What would jeopardize one’s territory more than the Hosts that toss it’s balance down a hill with their Gauntlet screwing shenanigans?

  10. WarholAethyr
    June 6, 2014 at 10:05 pm

    Im not convinced on the choice of prey still…eradicating every single shartha still seems like more an impossible goal better suited to the Iminir. The unholy amalgamation of flesh and spirit still wreaks of a violation on Purity moreso than Honor. I could run my game woth the current prey, but I’d *love* to see Lords as a cold winter moving in to freeze, starve, and destroy the vermin.

  11. June 7, 2014 at 1:11 am

    I have very obvious question, but that is crucial to this sticking Tribes with they favorite Prey – what is if I don’t want to use specific kind of threat in chronicle? For example, I now run game based on Bale Hounds and Malejin threat. I have little, secluded town in far reaches of Sweden. Using spoilers of Idigam Chronicles as written, sure, I will have Blood Talons for Bale Hounds, Storm Lords for Spirit-Ridden taken by Malinets demons, and Iron Masters for fighting with humans cult that worship Malejin. But this little town on the outskirts of civilization is also great place for Hunters in Darkness and I don’t see a place for them in chronicle structure and I don’t want to push them on force in to story. What to do in this case? Adding next threat in the overcrowded game isn’t solution for this. πŸ™

    • June 7, 2014 at 1:17 am

      Also, were is gender swapping on Father/Mother Wolf and Mother Luna/ Father Moon? It’s a bit crucial in mythological part of my Sweden game, as I imagined that local Uratha think they are children of Angerboda, Mother of Wolves and Mani, Father Moon.

      • Nathan Henderson
        June 9, 2014 at 2:28 am

        It’s not going to happen on every page of the book.

    • Nathan Henderson
      June 9, 2014 at 2:28 am

      You don’t need everyone’s favored prey in every game. The Hunters in Darkness don’t ignore other threats.

  12. JDspeeder1
    June 7, 2014 at 3:52 am

    Is it over-stepping to point out typos in that doc? ; P

  13. Roads
    June 8, 2014 at 8:39 am

    I never really cared for the Storm Lords _that_ much before, they always felt a little on the thin side theme wise. Totally not helped by my deep seated resentment of stoic philosophy, but even with all that? I’m actually kinda interested in the Storm Lords now. Well done!

    Well okay, part of this is because I maintain that the Ridden are the coolest antagonist block in Werewolf, and a little bit of refracted neatifaction-factor falls onto them now, bust still. Cool!

  14. indarkestknight
    June 8, 2014 at 10:15 pm

    I really like this. This was just awesome. I hope the write-ups for everything else are as cool as this is.

  15. RisTigger
    June 9, 2014 at 3:37 pm

    Here’s something that always confused me when I read Werewolf, can the werewolves talk to the sons of Father Wolf? Are there special gatherings where they talk with them? Can they just talk to them at any time?

  16. Eric Crabtree
    June 14, 2014 at 8:32 pm

    Seeing as I have their tribal glyph tatted on my shoulder you can guess how happy this makes me.

    Also the Lodge of Cerberus among the Blood Talons can help judge whether Geist are claimed or not. Generally with the entrails hanging from their claws.

  17. Ken M.
    June 17, 2014 at 12:26 am

    I’m totally digging the depth and detail you guys are putting into the new revisions. The NWoD Uratha now feel a lot more personal and brutal than before, and their concepts make more sense. I really like the whole idea that each tribe has a prey they are specialized with hunting too.

    I understand why Ridden and Claimed are worthy prey of the Storm Lords. The Ridden and Claimed are the Outlaws. They run rampant across the physical world, answering to no one, breaking the law, and terrorizing the citizenry. They are manipulative, well armed, and will do anything not to get caught and sent back to jail (the Shadow). Who better to track them down than the best of the best! The Storm Lords are the U.S. Marshals sent to round up the bandits and bring them in! Totally dig it!

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