Anybody else remember the amazing art Guy Davis did for Dark Reflections: Specters, a book branded with the Black Dog label for Wraith: the Oblivion? Everything Guy ever drew had stories woven through it beyond the depiction for the book. He is just a fantastic storyteller.
But Rich, I hear at least one of you ask, why are you talking about Black Dog? Wasn’t that just a parody of White Wolf in Book of the Wyrm?
Oh no, my questioning friend, Black Dog was also a logo, a brand if you will, that we at WW put on certain books back in the day.
Last week, a few fun forum folks raised the question of whether Onyx Path was going to do new Black Dog projects because of the 20 year anniversary thing we do so well. While giving the answer (We have no plans at this time), it became obvious that maybe it’d be helpful if I explained a bit about why WW adopted the Black Dog brand and just what the purposes of such brands can be.
In the 90’s we were pushing all the boundaries. Sex, violence, language, representation, book structure and layout, you name it and somebody at White Wolf wanted to smash through the standards and tell their story their way. But standards then were not standards now. A lot of what we take for granted now in our books, on TV, and especially online, was taboo back then.
With guardians of the public good willing to catch and punish those who transgressed.
We put “Games For Mature Minds” on the books and added, laughingly, disclaimers about how the material in our game books was fictional, and figured that we had done just enough to warn the public.
On the creative end of things, we kept pushing to make the things we made the way we imagined them, without a filter. But our sales guys heard a different story. They would pass on stories about losing retailers who didn’t like the “goths” coming into their stores, or how one distributor called us “a bunch of faggots and Satanists”, and we’d all agree they were dinosaurs, so “Screw ’em!”
As far as I remember, and bear in mind it was a while ago, it wasn’t the RPG biz that actually was the issue, it was those stores that had games but were mostly comic book stores that were the ones under scrutiny. They were the ones who were sued, their owners jailed, and their doors shut forever, because of the “adult material” on the shelves with the comic books considered to be aimed at kids.
Bear in mind that whether you or I believed said material was inappropriate was not the point. There were local law officials and outraged parents who drew that line and issued those warrants.
This became a thing that loomed over any such store. It was actually a pretty scary threat for retailers.
Around this time, and into this environment, we published Clan Book Tzimisce.
Now, CB Tz, was a very typical book for that time. Filled with writing and art that described the inhuman and inhumane Clan, it was nevertheless the back cover art that caused an uproar among retailers and distributors as it featured a portrait of a vampire whose face had been fleshcrafted so their mouth ran vertically. From our point of view this was a horrific warping of a vampire, but from theirs, White Wolf had just put a book into their stores with a vagina on the back cover.
(I’m not going to dig up that art, but go ahead and Google it. I’ll wait.)
There was much sturm und drang, and ultimately we had each book shrink-wrapped to cover up the art. Big picture though, the result of all that was WW torn between the poles of whether we should just publish what we wanted and damn the consequences, or whether we would restrain our creative impulses because of the standards of the marketplace outside our cozy, black-draped, office.
The Black Dog Game Factory brand was the result of those discussions and a middle-road where we could still publish what we wanted, and in fact go further than ever, but by having the logo on a book we alerted Retailers to the idea that this contained content that could be considered objectionable. Some of our creators took to the spirit of the brand, and others found it annoying or added material that pushed boundaries just because they could. Those decisions aren’t the point.
The point was, and is, that Black Dog was created as a brand to satisfy our needs to create without external censorship but while still being seen as responsive to the somewhat perilous environment store owners were working in. It was made for that particular period in time, and as the storms passed and our culture grew more used to the very “objectionable material” that caused the ruckus, we began putting what would have been labeled as Black Dog stuff into the projects we were publishing as White Wolf.
There are other brands that are relevant forever, that are used to shepherd a new genres, or which take on lives of their own in publishing. Black Dog was never one of those, it was always a creature of its time. It always shielded the other books in its game-line, but was never a line itself. Its purpose has passed.
Fuck, now our fucks are in the fucking books.
We could not do that before Black Dog.
We might create other brands down the road that aren’t just game-lines. They’ll be put on our books for different reasons than Black Dog was, and they’ll hopefully serve their purpose as well as Black Dog did.
Good Dog.
Besides that look at brands and one specific use for them, we’re thrilled by how well Mage: the Awakening 2nd Edition is doing, having gone platinum on DTRPG last week. (See below in Blurbs!) Keep your comments coming folks! Now that the “First Four” of the Chronicles of Darkness 2nd Editions are out, I think I’ll be whipping up a CofD 2nd Edition blog soon to explore the whys and wherefores of the whole 2nd Edition plan.
Speaking of which, if there’s a subject you’d like me to cover in a blog, please let me know in the comments here, and I’ll consider it. Thanks!
BLURBS!
ON SALE!
Here’s the link to the press release we put out about how Onyx Path is now selling through Indie Press Revolution: https://theonyxpath.com/press-release-onyx-path-limited-editions-now-available-through-indie-press-revolution/
Those howls you hear? The pack is on your trail! The Pack for Werewolf: the Forsaken 2nd, that is! The Advance PDF will go on sale on Wednesday after 2pm EasternUS at DTRPG.com!
Mage: the Awakening 2nd Edition Advance PDF NOW available at DTRPG.com! http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/181754/Mage-the-Awakening-2nd-Edition
You are a mage, one of the Wise. You see, know, and explore what others can’t imagine, from the depths of the human soul to the hidden corners of reality. Armed with your spells, driven by an addiction to Mysteries, you delve into the secrets of the world. Knowledge has a price, and the dangers are many.
This book contains:
- The complete guide to playing a mage in the Chronicles of Darkness.
- Reimagined Paths, Orders, and powers to create your Awakened characters and their allies, including an updated version of the most comprehensive free-form magic system in gaming.
- Five example settings across the world, from Los Angeles to Salamanca, each with a central Mystery.
- A brand-new look at all the strange places of the Fallen World, from the Lower Depths to the Emanation Realms, and what mages might find within.
NOTE: This is the Advance PDF version. A final PDF version and PoD versions will be available at a later date. If you have purchased this Advance PDF, you will be automatically updated to the final PDF and receive a link to enable you to purchase the PoD at a discount designed so that your total price matches our usual PDF and Print combo offer.
You must have your DTRPG account set to accept messages from Onyx Path Publishing before the link messages are sent out, though, so please adjust your settings if you want that discount.
Some…things. Arise. The Primordial Feast fiction anthology for Beast: the Primordial is on sale at DriveThruRPG.com in PDF, ebook and PoD versions!
The world of the Chronicles of Darkness is a strange place…
For the human masses, it is terrifying and brutal, full of monsters waiting to drink the blood and taste the flesh of those foolish enough to delve into forbidden corners.
For the Begotten, though, it is home, and those who transgress serve to feed the Horrors within.
The Primordial Feast contains nine new stories inspired by Beast: The Primordial.
Children of the Unconquered Sun arise!
Exalted 3rd Edition in both PDF and PoD versions is now on sale at DriveThruRPG.com: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/162759/Exalted-3rd-Edition
This is your tale. This is Exalted. What legends will they tell of your deeds?
Exalted 3rd Edition depicts both a revitalized and expanded Creation, and the triumphant return of the Solar Exalted—but whether their rebirth will herald the salvation or destruction of the world, none can say. The system redesign takes the best parts of the previous editions and streamlines the mechanics for maximum playability.
Exalted 3rd Edition includes:
- New Fiction – Read a new tale by original Exalted developer and author Geoff Grabowski.
- New Artwork – See the Realm in a new light with stunning artwork by both new and classic Exalted artists working under the direction of Maria Cabardo.
- Expanded Locales – Expand your campaigns with a detailed overview of the sprawling and decadent Second Age of Man. In addition to classic locales such as Chiaroscuro and Nexus, find many new locations not detailed in previous editions, from the treacherous intrigues of Port Calin to the proud warriors of the frigid plains and forests of Medo, held in check only by the iron hand of the Realm.
- Intrigue and Mystery – Discover a revitalized Realm, still standing at the brink of civil war, but more dangerous than ever before; and the Lunar dominions which harry its borders, seeking redress for ancient crimes while pursuing modern ambitions.
- Expanded Character Creation – Create and play Solar Exalted characters and compelling mortal heroes with more information and fleshed out details.
- Combat System – Fight with a new cinematic combat engine, primed to deliver dynamic, exciting, and easily resolved battles between heroes, gods, and armies.
- Charms – Explore a vibrant new Charm set encompassing both classic Solar powers from previous editions and all-new powers to shift the course of Creation.
- …and much, much more!
The Black Hand returns! V20 The Black Hand: Guide to the Tal’Mahe’Ra Advance PDF is available on DTRPG! http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/179023/V20-The-Black-Hand-A-Guide-to-the-TalMaheRa
Beware the Beast: the Primordial PDFs and PoDs NOW on sale at DTRPG.com! http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/162443/Beast-The-Primordial
- The complete guide to playing a Beast in Chronicles of Darkness
- A game system designed for crossover with the other Chronicles of Darkness lines
- A look at the Beasts and their broods all around the world, from Vancouver to Tokyo
- Rules for Heroes, the deluded individuals who think that this is their story
CONVENTIONS!
Gen Con 2016 planning has started. We’re starting to plan our booth demo schedule and our 2016-2017 Brochure and a Scion/Trinity/StoryPath brochure, too.
Here’s a con Fast Eddy Webb will be attending! Talk to him about V20 and Pugmire and Sherlock Holmes and Oxford Commas:
- MomoCon (May 26-29, 2016, Atlanta, GA)
And now, the new project status updates!
First Draft (The first phase of a project that is about the work being done by writers, not dev prep)
- M20 Book of Secrets (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
- Exalted 3rd Novel by Matt Forbeck (Exalted 3rd Edition)
- CtL fiction anthology (Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition)
- Ring of Spiragos (Scarred Lands)
- VtM Endless Ages fiction anthology (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
- BtP Building a Legend (Beast: the Primordial)
- Trinity Continuum Core Rulebook (The Trinity Continuum)
- Trinity Continuum: Aeon Rulebook (The Trinity Continuum)
- M20 Gods and Monsters (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
- V20 Dark Ages Anthology (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
- VtR A Thousand Years of Night (Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition)
- Scion: Origins (Scion 2nd Edition)
- Scion: Hero (Scion 2nd Edition)
- BtP Mortal Remains (Beast: the Primordial)
- BtP Player’s Guide
- Pugmire Core Book
- Ring of Spiragos (5e)
- Dagger of Spiragos (5e)
Redlines
- Dagger of Spiragos – Pathfinder Version (Scarred Lands)
- EX3 Quickstart (Exalted 3rd Edition)
- Scarred Lands Player’s Guide 5E: Ghelspad (Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
Second Draft
- Arms of the Chosen (Exalted 3rd Edition)
- The Realm (Exalted 3rd Edition)
- Dragon-Blooded (Exalted 3rd Edition)
- Cavaliers of Mars
- Changeling: the Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition
- Wraith: the Oblivion 20th Anniversary Edition
- V20 Dark Ages Companion (Vampire 20th Dark Ages)
Development
- W20 Changing Ways (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
- Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition, featuring the Huntsmen Chronicle (Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition)
- W20 Pentex Employee Indoctrination Handbook (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
- Signs of Sorcery (Mage: the Awakening Second Edition)
- Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes (Beast: the Primordial)
- SL Ring of Spiragos (Pathfinder – Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
- SL The Wise and the Wicked (5e – Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
- SL The Wise and the Wicked (Pathfinder – Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
- SL Dagger of Spiragos (Pathfinder – Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
Editing
- V20 DA Tome of Secrets (Vampire 20th Dark Ages)
- V20 Lore of the Bloodlines (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
- CofD Hurt Locker (Chronicles of Darkness)
- Beast Ready Made Characters (Beast: the Primordial)
Post-Editing Development:
- The Prince’s Gambit (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
- MtC Mummy Novel (Mummy: the Curse)
Indexing:
ART DIRECTION FROM MIRTHFUL MIKE:
In Art Direction
- W20 Shattered Dreams
- Dark Eras Companion
- Necropolis Rio
- W20 Kinfolk
- Beckett’s Jyhad Diary
- CofD Hurt Locker
- Mummy Novel
- V20 DA Tome of Secrets
- V20 Lore of the Bloodlines
In Layout
- Promethean: the Created Second
- V20 Ready Made Characters
- Secrets of the Covenants
- Ex 3 Screen
- V20 Black Hand
- Ex 3 core book – From RichT: Prepping the actual deluxe traditionally printed files.
- EX3 Backer Charms
- Scarred Lands PG
- Dark Eras Screen
Proofing
- V20 Ghouls – At WWP for approvals.
- Curse of the Blue Nile – At WWP for approvals.
At Press
- Beast Screen – At shipper.
- Beast Prestige Edition
- Dark Eras – PoD files.
Special- projects on hold in the art and production area until an external factor is resolved
- Wraith 20 – Art direction and layout can’t go further until art notes come in, still being developed by Rich Dansky.
- Pentex Employee Indoctrination Manual – Some added and amended text needs to come in.
TODAY’S REASON TO DRINK: This time of year, there’s nothing like the hilarity of mixing allergy medicine and your favorite potent potable.
Comments
81 responses to “Branded! [Monday Meeting Notes]”
Really digging the cover of The Pack, it has a real Warriors vibe to it.
Totally agree. I like the font, too.
I think it’s kind of hideous, to be quite frank, on a technical level. Looks like a cheap cartoon. I’d much prefer something more abstract (or just, you know, better looking). Then again, I was never a fan of LeBlanc. Give me Spencer, give me Araya, give me Ajmal, give me anyone else pls.
Sorry to be blunt..
Thank you for your opinion.
Urdaga! Come out to play!
Hey Rich,
Not directly CofD related, but I have had a burning bit of curiosity of late: With all the time that you spend supporting your team in making great games for us, are you currently running or playing anything? Any cool characters you can brag about? 🙂
We realized last play session that we’ve been playing Justin’s On the Archdeacon’s Secret Service Pathfinder campaign for three years. I’d like to play more often, but it’s tough to get five busy gamers together even virtually. My character, Lupo Vossi, is an ex-soldier in the church forces who was healed and taught by the church monks. He’s a brute and a strength based Monk, devoted to the church and willing to do whatever it takes to fulfill his calling. Right now we are trying to explore what we were told was an island for holy retreat, but seems like it has been taken over by extra-dimensional beings.
Well, you asked. 😉
MAGEEEEEEEEEEE :)))))))))
Is a pretty solid product. :O
Thanks, Rich. It’s easy to look at what’s available now and not realize how it was just a few years ago such things would cause an uproar. We all owe some thanks to White Wolf and Black Dog for getting our hobby to where it is today.
And especial thanks because the Pack is out this week! Aroo!
You’re very welcome.
haha sure it’s a “mouth” turned sideways…
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
and Georgia O’Keeffe was just painting lilies “wink-wink”
I would buy it if both the upper and lower end were similarly drawn. That just screams pierced clitoris to me.
I had that book when I was 15. It was awesome, Tzimisce/Salubri (weird, right?) forever!
Interesting insight into the past of this most interesting of hobbies. I didn’t know about the Tzimisce book making such an uproar. Yet, I remember those times and, yeah, I can see it happening.
Thanks for having soldiered on and found a solution.
Black Dog was very much a company-wide decision, back when we were just finding our way. Thanks!
While I totally agree that the Black Dog title isn’t needed any more I would love to see more titles like Freak Legions or the Baali clanbook. I’m really looking forward to Mage Book of the Fallen because I suspect it will have the sort of treatment the Black Dog books received back in the day. I would drop ridiculous cash on a deluxe leather bound Freak Legions 20th that really focuses on the ways we sacrifice ourselves to the corrupt machinery of the 21st century. I just have a lot of love for those books.
I second this. Those books were just the right amount of badwrongfun.
Funny that Black Dog has come up in conversation – I was actually talking to someone the other day how the CB Tz was shrink wrapped, while ‘Dark Reflection: Spectres’ was’t – which, given the nature of some of Guy Davis’ illustrations (Chapter 2’s full page leading piece springs to mind), does lead to some head scratching 😉
And now you know. Spectres had the Black Dog logo on it, so no need for the shrink wrap. And knowing is half the battle.
I don’t think the retailer I went to fully realised that – it was check on the shelf next to the Star Wars books and other games that were considered more ‘kid friendly’ – shrink wrapped books were in a different section. Always would have happened if a clueless parent had picked it up by mistake to take a flick through it… 😉
*kepted on the shelf, and *Always wondered what would have happened… I hate typing on a phone sometimes…
Incidentially, in that same discussion, I thought it would have made a cool April Fools in-joke if OP announced something like “The Compleat World of Shadows: Anniversary Edition” book, being an attempt to bring a legendary “missing” Black Dog book which brought all the rules for Revenant, Pixie, Fiend and all the other WoS splats in to one book, supposedly salvaged from the burnt out ruins of the Black Dog offices after the ‘incident’, complete with notes (and insults) from the designers to each other written in the margins.
To an extent, ‘Katanas and Trenchcoats’ has pipped this idea at the post, but I’d personally still like to see a WoS branded parody game as an April Fools release, one of these days.
I still have my old Clanbook: Tzimisce, purchased sans wrap decades ago. The first time I saw that book in the store WITH shrink wrap, I thought: Damnit! I got a busted one.
Ah, good times! Still, you make an excellent point about how far we’ve come. The notion of Giovanni Chronicles being Black Dog is odd now, but I do so love that blurb of the WHY it was deemed Black Dog worthy.
Hi Rich,
I’d like to ask for a clarification on two of the notes above.
Dark Eras has a note about POD next to it. Does that mean your going through pdf proofs? Alternatively is it the case that your through POD proofs and prepping final POD files?
The other question is to do with V20 Black Hand. Its listed as in layout in the notes. Yet its out on advanced pdf so should it not be under “at press”? Unless it is undergoing a layout change?
As a final aside you may want to update the “Current Projects” page. Its got a few items on it that have now been released such as Dreams of Avarice.
Dark Eras- yes, we’ve uploaded the PoD version and are waiting to order the proofs. V20 Black Hand- Mirthful Mike is starting on inputting the errata into the PDF, from which we’ll create the PoD files. So, it was “at press”, but is back in layout to get that phase accomplished.
I agree that Black Dog isn’t needed anymore, but I remember some amazing books that existed back then. Of course, Charnel Houses of Europe: The Shoah was the one that always sticks out in mind. I’ve even seen a series talking about video games mention it as a point of how games can also help us understand the world.
So I would love to see stuff that had that as an ideal, and I feel certain Onyx Path could do that again (and I think in some cases is).
We had amazing books in BD, and also in WW. 🙂 My point is that any book that is pitched that looks at such subject matter doesn’t need a special brand in order to get published today.
The Cantor at my temple loved the idea of that book. I was scared to mention it at first since I’m a convert who hasn’t finished converting and doesn’t make it on Saturday mornings much, but she liked the idea as much as I do. She also likes the Tammuz a lot.
Hello there. I was wondering Could we get an update on the status of
Arms of the Chosen (Exalted 3rd Edition)
The Realm (Exalted 3rd Edition)
Dragon-Blooded (Exalted 3rd Edition)
As they have been on that stage for too long! Will there be a kickstarter for them for a deluxe edition? If yes when can we expect it to be announced.
Last question I promise. How often would you ideally foresee producing the next book in line for exalted (meaning how long will the wait be between books).
Thanks in advance
The Update list is the info we get from the developers on where books are in the process of creating them, and I don’t estimate delivery times or dates. We intend on a Dragon-Blooded Kickstarter, but not until we have the text completed and in a version that is ready for or already in Editing. Nobody here wants a repeat of the extended wait time for EX3, no matter how great the final result is.
Finally The Pack is here!
This will be my weekend-reader for sure!
Arooooooooo! The Pack is comming!
Off subject but will we be seeing Werewolf and CofD 2nd edition Storyteller Screens soon?
Soon? You’d see them on the list on my blog if they were coming soon. Someday? We certainly intend to have them, yes.
I am reading Mage the Awakening 2nd edition and it’s amazing!!! One of the best books ever!!! My most heartwarming thanks to Mr. Dave Brookshaw (who was already commendable for his work in Imperial Mysteries) and all the Onyx Crew!!!
Cheers, guys!
Hey Rich, sort of a side question. I’ve always loved the WoD and CofD lines, but as I get older I’m finding it harder to follow all the rules and keep it all in my head. Because of this I’ve gravitated to more streamlined, narrative game lines like FATE, which has been wonderful for me. However, I do miss my old, dark worlds.
Have you ever considered doing something like a Chronicles of Dark Fate, to help bring the CofD game lines to the FATE system? Do you have any thoughts on that?
Thanks again for all you do and keep making great products!
Glad FATE is working for you right now. As you can see, we have a full roster of books to get to that are refining and expanding the always popular WW systems. So not really the bandwidth to port to a different one. You should check out Onyx Path’s own system, StoryPath, for a more modern take on dice pool systems, if you get a chance. Thanks!
I think this is something we could do without too much difficulty as a community project. The powers for the various gamelines would take the most work.
You might want to see if anyone on the forums is interested.
I do Fate all the time, since my players are about as easy to wrangle for anything else as a group of psychopathic cats. I’ve been spitballing ideas for the various powers for a while. My current idea for Vampire is to have each Clan accessed via an Aspect, and then a set of stunts representing key discipline powers. In fact in some cases one stunt would do for two or three powers (Serpentis, despite it’s variety, might only take about 3 stunts for the first five powers). Of course, that’s for an indepth conversion. Honestly, a basic summary of the material with just a little mechanical reinforcement would probably due to capture the “essence” of the lines without bloating the fate mechanincs way beyond normal capacity. It’s the old Fate balancing act, you know? How much material do I need to make? What should I NOT do? I mean, most Fate players if you give them a stunt list the size of a Pathfinder feat book will probably just start wondering why they are bothering to do fate.
Agreed, keeping it lean is key. It’s about the essence of the line you want to convey in FATE and how to achieve that without bloat.
I’d love to see whatever you put together, if you don’t mind sharing.
The Pack! And that cover by LeBlanc is AWESOME!!!
Rich, any chance of getting Insaney Chaney to throw up some more shirts on the RedBubble store, soon? Maybe some Werewolf and Wraith with their respective titles.
I get comments all the time on my Vampire Bradstreet one.
You know all these game books we’re releasing? Yep, they are taking up the Mirthful One’s time right now. We’ll get more shirts and things up the next time we don’t have tons of projects awaiting his tender, growling, care.
Sounds good. And yeah, you guys HAVE been dropping lots of great stuff recently, so that makes sense.
Keep up the great work!
Every new OPP book that comes out is a crushing reminder that other books I want aren’t out yet. Then again, if every book I wanted was out, I’d probably be broke, so…
On that note, has Matt said anything about the Beast Player’s Guide? I know he was asking about ideas a while back, but I haven’t heard anything else and I don’t want to miss anything.
The Beast PG is right there in the First Drafts section.
Oh, I saw that. I was just wondering if there was anything else I hadn’t noticed between the hype of everything else that’s been coming up lately.
Hey Rich,
thanks for the explanation of what happened to Black Dog. I wondered if it went away because people weren’t buying the products as much. I see what you mean about that work being folded more into the overall White Wolf offerings. I remember when the Tzimisce book started coming wrapped. I also remember Montreal by Night, and suddenly wondering why every other city book wasn’t as visceral, or why no one had thought of vampires passing blood-borne diseases before.
I think we look back on the ’90s and go “oh, it was soooo tolerant & open! I mean, especially compared to the Reagan-era ’80s.” I’ve heard this from friends of mine who are in their twenties. Yes, we had Nirvana, and Riot Grrrls, and Michael Stipe saying you could question his sexuality, and James’ “Laid.” But we still had a lot of slut-shaming, homophobia, racism & intolerance (I wish that was all past-tense). I remember being a teenager and in my early 20s, in those comic/game shops. I also remember Tipper Gore and the PMRC. I remember the Dark Knight Returns, the Watchmen, Sin City and The Crow all being edgy and ground-breaking, because there was no way in hell you’d find those as individual comic books on the shelf of your local Waldenbooks (yes, I remember Waldenbooks). So yeah, I remember there being a need for something like Black Dog then. Thanks for doing it. And here’s to hoping we don’t hit another point of needing something like it again.
Thanks for confirming my somewhat erratic memory of the time! Easy to forget that we’ve brought quite a few folks into our community these last five years who didn’t game through the 90s, or were really busy leading lives in other countries who never knew the stuff going on in the US. Hearing their questions was a big part of why I wrote this little retrospective. I dunno if we will go back to exactly those same cultural circumstances, but things like what is acceptable do tend to ebb and flow. Maybe then, we’ll have a need to revive the Black Dog. And like I said, we might get together on a different brand in the future, for different reasons that make sense for our needs at that time.
The Pack! And just in time to shoehorn it into the June Addendum update! YES!
Thanks for taking us back down memory lane with the blog on the Black Dog line. I know you probably wrote it as a introspective on why for those who weren’t around in the ’90s, but for me it was a highlight of all that White Wolf was doing right in pushing creative and artistic boundaries for our hobby. Thank you.
And I for one look forward to your blog on the whys and wherefores of the CotD 2nd edition plan. Love the behind the scenes insight you provide with the Monday Meeting blog posts. Keep up the fantastic work!
(And here is another vote for a WtF 2nd edition screen for when you busy Onyx Path people get a spare moment to get around to it)
Also, also…
MtAw 2nd edition last week, and Pack this week? You shouldn’t have! It’s not even my birthday. OP is so awesome putting out such great work.
Hey Rich, was wondering, for the next blog, could you detail what is the process for approvals at (formerly) CCP, now White Wolf again, and if there’s any outstanding difference? I assume things like letting the guys review the material, has there been any instance where it wasn’t approved? That sort of anecdotes.
Not really open to sharing that process, sorry, as it often involves discussion of plans for the future by both companies.
Hey Rich, thanks for the story, it was a very interesting and enjoyable one! But! Oh my, all these old arts! Can’t help, it, I know the people nowadays prefer full colour and more “realistic” styles (and making statements that goth is dead etc. which may be connected, certainly it’s not in the mainstream now) and most of the artworks in OPP’s books are good (and the writing too). But! I love, freakin’ LOVE these old artworks and the overall visual style of the old games, especialy Vampire. Even now, I sometimes just take the old books and oozing in the feeling of those. I plainly think the old b&ws added tremendously to the tone and catch of the games and I loved to see some of the iconic ones back in V20. I know it’s just my personal taste and the trends are contradict me, I’m surely don’t expecting you guys to appeal to me personaly, nor the WWP, whatever they want to be the their visual direction. I know, for a lot of folks the old arts are ‘childish’, or ‘edgy’, or ‘cheesy’, just not for me. I miss these old arts and their feeling, so again thanks for sharing some of them above! 🙂
Art is always subjective. What works for you is such a personal thing, but I don’t think you are alone in appreciating the different effect b&w and greyscale art is capable of evoking in folks. I think that most people see color as the standard, the accepted, way to present imagery, and no-color is therefore either an “artsy” choice or one that speaks of the product being of less quality because it does not conform to the color norm. Personally, I think the nature of the project should determine the style and type of art that graces that project, but nobody ever said that most people will judge things the way you think they should. 🙂
Nice post, a good read. I enjoy the insiders look at White Wolf history.
For a future Monday blog, I’ve always been curious about the Art Haus label White Wolf had for a while. I’d be cool to learn more about that.
Sure, I’ll check with Tinney and see if he is OK with me sharing my POV on ArtHaus.
Just wanted to thank you for the post, Rich. I asked a lot about this on the forum, and it’s great to see more on it here.
Certainly your questions were part of the reason for the post. Glad you liked it.
Hey Rich,
Thanks for the history lesson, it’s actually really interesting to look back and see how far we’ve come.
Also, great job with Mage 2e; this is the first time I’ve read a Mage book. It’s fascinating.
To that end, I had a question that you may be tired of hearing, but…
We’ve now got the amazing new CoD Core, as well as VtR, WtF and MtA 2e books out. From what I can see, Promethean, Changeling and Hunter are in the works (please correct me if I’m wrong).
Is there any vague inclination as to whether a 2e Geist book is rumbling around on the (far) horizon?
Thanks again,
We haven’t announced it yet, but if we were we’d be announcing it this coming Gen Con. If we were.
Oh.
Oh my.
IF that was to happen, it would make me unreasonably happy for more reasons than it just being a game I love.
What a lovely hypothetical.
Sooo… I know I’m late to the party but Mummies, amiright?
Great to know if you are going to announce it that it will be soon announced. Giest would certainly be epic.
I do remember Black Dog Games and….will you ever be bringing back HoL?
HOL is owned by a bunch of guys and is theirs to publish as they will. It is not part of our WW license.
To be a bit more explicit:
Human Occupied Landfill was published, but not owned, by White Wolf. The owners later republished under a different publisher with a new cover. Since it’s not something White Wolf owned, it’s not included in our license.
Although I suppose theoretically if the owners contact Onyx Path publishing about a new new edition under license, then Rich might entertain the idea, but nothing like that’s going on to my knowledge.
Sure is a Septum and not VCH… I can’t imagine what would have happened if you had used this image (http://i.somethingawful.com/u/elpintogrande/december10/vm/vmnew12.gif) for the cover of Montreal By Night… even in a black dog label 😀
Might have been worth pointing out that link is very NSFW when you posted it.
I bought that book back when it came out and have seen that picture many times. Not sure that anyone browsing this page at work really wants that appearing on their screens though.
Can’t wait for GenCon! 😀
Whoo Hoo! Glad to see the Dark Era’s Screen on this.
I do love flipping through the few Black Dog books I have from time to time. Funny how one’s current state of censorship colors what we recall as the state of censorship in the past… Sometimes the Black Dog products came off as juvenile, even then, but a times, they really did beautifully broach subjects that still difficult to discuss to this day (for example, Charnel Houses: The Shoah). What was your personally favorite of the Black Dog publications?
Number one for me is always Charnel Houses. So very proud of RichD and his team for how they presented the combination Wraith and real world horrific events. There are stretches of Rob Hatch’s writing in there that are starkly and terrifyingly beautiful. And HOL was just a hoot.
On a completely different note: In what formats will the Ex3 backer charms be available? I’m assuming PDF as that is the de facto standard, but will there be enough material that it’d be worth your time to make a traditional print version?
PDF and physical book via PoD from DTRPG is our standard business model. Thanks!
This was a pretty interesting read. I’ve heard about Black Dog from time to time but didn’t know much at all. Always nice to learn a bit more about the history of our hobby.
On another note absolutely loving Mage 2e. Is there any rough idea on how long after release we will be able to get hold of condition cards? I’m guessing they won’t be started on until after the PoD is up. I have a nice big wad of index cards to tide me over but part or me is looking forward to another pretty thing to buy.
I want ya to cover Dark Ages: Fae and maybe consider the idea of it finally get the Storyteller’s Handbook and Player’s Handbook it so desperately deserves (the first one especially, but the second one for lots more echoes and features and cantrips)
Is there a place where we can read the Storypath rules?
I still feel like there may still be place for Black Dog products. Just because the developers and the world in which they live have changed, aged, and grown does not mean that WoD has become any less dark. Surely sourcebooks delving into Nephandi, Baali, Black Spiral Dancers, a revised Charnel Houses just to name a few would benefit from having the Black Dog label. It all comes down to who is willing or able to channel that kind of darkness and discomfort in written form, and if there is still a market for it.
The point is that there is no need for BD as a label. If we do a Nephandi book, we’ll just do it and add the appropriate legal warning line in the write-up.