Changeling the Lost Second Edition: Kiths

Changeling: The Lost, Open Development

I just posted the first Seeming, Beasts a few days ago. I’ve had a lot of people asking about Kiths, because of their relationship.

So I wanted to share the first draft of the Kith explanation, and a number of example Kiths. The whole book will have about 100. This is about a third of those.

Note: This is a first draft. Excuse references to The God-Machine Chronicle and Blood & Smoke; those things will be included in the Changeling the Lost Second Edition core rulebook. These are internal references, so I can make sure to include them in the final draft copy.

Here’s the draft copy.

I have a few rules for open development stuff. Here goes:

  • First off, notes need to be in one place. I’ve set up a forum thread for that. I’ll pay attention to that thread. This will be a new thread from last time, to help me organise.
  • Don’t bother commenting on grammar, spelling, and punctuation. These are super raw drafts.
  • Please don’t reiterate points. I’m not looking for consensus or “votes”. If someone said, “this issue exists”, don’t second it. I don’t want to bog down the conversation. If you have a new point or thought, cool. But don’t dogpile the conversation, please.
  • Some points don’t need context. “This has seven dots, Merits don’t go to seven dots” doesn’t need context. But, “This is unbalanced” is not really a point that helps anyone. That’s subjective. Now, if you played with it, and it created a specific experience at your table, I want to know.
  • Speaking in experiences is good. If you played with something, I want to hear the experiences it created at your table.
  • Please note the positives. This is partly because I want my team exposed to positive notes as well as negative, but also because I want to see what works for you and creates positive experiences. I’m in the business of creating positive experiences.
  • Don’t be insulting. Don’t insinuate motives from my team. Just address the material; don’t try to bring in assumptions and political issues.
  • If you make a “this doesn’t work” style note, couple it with what you think would work. That’ll help us frame your commentary.
  • At a certain point, I’m going to call an end to notes. At that point, I have to send over my notes to my team, and I can’t go back and integrate more ideas.


  17 comments for “Changeling the Lost Second Edition: Kiths

  1. Nuwisha Nutjob
    April 29, 2015 at 1:08 am

    Wow that is pretty awesome!

  2. Chazz
    April 29, 2015 at 8:03 am

    I really like this take on kiths, especially because it’s detached from Seeming. It makes both choices more interesting and expands the range of possibility in character creation.

  3. Ganymede
    April 29, 2015 at 8:40 am

    I really like the idea of changelings being able to get supernatural merits through their kith. The ifrit blessing is just really, probably one of my favourite kiths. Now I just have to try to talk my ST into letting me use one of these in the mixed game he’s running.

    • Phaolan
      April 30, 2015 at 12:40 pm

      I respectfully disagree with the Merits/Conditions/Tilts aspect, but know that I DO see benefits of this! I’ll just ignore those so I can rant… Sorry in advance.

      I LIKE how the various ‘powers’ of the Lost were unlike those of any other beings. That is, while an Antiquarian did have something that resembled a Merit, it wasn’t presented just as ‘gets [Merit] for free.’ The use of existing Traits to describe fae magics, to my way of seeing it, cheapens the experience. If any Vampire or Mage or whathaveyou can perfectly mimic a changeling advantage, how is that even an advantage? How is that specifically Changeling: the Lost?

      …Don’t feel like you need to reply to this. I’m an old grognard, and despite that I’m excited for Second Edition!

  4. Cryosleep
    April 30, 2015 at 12:39 am

    I’m loving the new kiths and such, but I am unclear as to whether or not sandharrowed kiths can still belong to the elemental seeming and if leechfingers can still be darklings? Can almost any kith belong to almost any seeming?

  5. Cryosleep
    April 30, 2015 at 12:41 am

    I’m loving the new kiths and such, but I am unclear as to whether or not sandharrowed kiths can still belong to the elemental seeming, if manikin can still be elementals as well, and if leechfingers can still be darklings? Can almost any kith belong to almost any seeming?

    • David A Hill Jr
      April 30, 2015 at 1:42 am

      Yes, they can be.

  6. Blue Thomas
    April 30, 2015 at 12:55 am

    why are not all the Seemings listed in each Kith? Not really understanding the reason for the switch around in what a kith and seeming is.At least that seems to be what they are. I do like the boost some got esp the gravewright.

    • David A Hill Jr
      April 30, 2015 at 1:44 am

      Not all are listed, because of space reasons. It saves a few thousand words, and lets us include all the Kiths. We mostly detail the less intuitive and obvious examples.

      The switch:

      Kith is what role you played in Arcadia. Your Keeper makes you your Kith. Your Seeming is how you warped it and took control, it’s your method of escape.

  7. Anteros
    April 30, 2015 at 10:40 am

    This is pure concentrated awesome!
    Making Kith independant from Seeming is an excellent idea, and I’m happy it will be more than an option.
    The Kiths presented seem both flavorful and useful, without being too costly or restricted in their use.
    I think the Grey are my new favorite Kith!
    I have one question about the Mirrorskins: Are their disguises illusions or cosmetic shapeshifting?

  8. Sean
    April 30, 2015 at 11:22 am

    I assume the Seeming descriptions are just a sample of what a Changeling of that Kith and Seeming could look like, and not what all Changelings with that Kith and Seeming look like?

    • Sean
      April 30, 2015 at 10:17 pm

      Must have missed the bit where it said that Seeming descriptions can be changed by the player at Storyteller discretion. I definitely like that, since I think that players should be able to make their Changelings look however they looks, so long as their appearance is thematically linked to the Seeming in question. Kind of excited to see if dual Kiths are coming back, and what the ramifications are.

  9. Phaolan
    April 30, 2015 at 12:17 pm

    Question: How do you expect a new player to wade through 100 Kiths and decide what she wants her character to be? I mean, in terms of starting player choice, this sounds like a daunting task…

    I guess that’s my biggest worry about this. In First Edition, the process of Kith-after-Seeming made those choices linear, and the fact that one of the Lost didn’t NEED a Kith within his Seeming left a lot of options open in the character development process.

    My troupe adopted notions that Kith can ’emerge’ later, that a ‘fresh’ changeling need time and effort to understand what all happened to her. The loss of pieces of her soul to the thorns (on the way into Arcadia and on the way back out) left bits and bobs that were replaced by the stuff of Faerie. The journey of discovering just WHAT that means, both in terms of game mechanics and in the character’s mind, was a huge part of our enjoyment of Changeling: the Lost.

    This version appears to mandate (and please correct me if I’m wrong) that a specific Kith be chosen for a new character like how a Vampire player chooses a Clan. Vampire has five Clans, but now Changeling has 100 Kiths, which is a hell of a big difference. Starting with a Seeming (one of six) wasn’t a huge conceptual hurdle, and once Seeming’s chosen, a Kith grows out of that.

    …This is a concern, mind you, not a gripe. My troupe has evolved a very fluid notion of how Kith and Seeming interact, not unlike the one you’re adding to Second Edition. The difference is that we’ve studied and played and worked on the game for years. A new player won’t have that advantage, will she? I just detest the idea of saying, ‘Welcome to the game! Here’s your homework.’ :\

    • Anteros
      April 30, 2015 at 1:40 pm

      In my humble opinion, there is no such things as too many character options.
      Besides, each Kith’s description is brief, evocative and rather simple, they shouldn’t bore or confuse most people, but perhaps there could be a way to classify kiths to make selecting one easier, such as a Physical/Mental/Social separation to mirror attributes?

    • Possessed
      May 2, 2015 at 5:57 am

      Personally I do not see this as a problem. New players should create their characters with the ST who should know the book and the Kiths and should provide counsel for the player in choosing his/her Kith. Ask a few open ended questions about what they want from their character and in accordance to their answers give them a list of the most suitable Kiths no need to go through all hundred.

      And considering how short these descriptors are even going through all of the hundred Kiths shouldn’t take too long.

  10. Brian Goubeaux
    May 2, 2015 at 3:48 am

    If there was a Kith in First Edition that wasn’t listed in Second Edition, is there a way to transfer First Edition Kiths into Second Edition?

    • Gaius
      May 4, 2015 at 3:40 pm

      I think the plan is to get all of them in, save any that are redundant. In those cases, it should basically be already covered by applying the old Seeming to the Kith in the book, whether or not it’s an explicit example, and changing the name if you wish.

      On the off-chance there are any Kiths that don’t make it, what’s listed in the book isn’t meant to be a complete list of the only possibilities. Like that early example, you can mix-and-match mechanical bits and pieces from a few Kiths (within reason), refluffing as needed, to get back to such a hypothetical 1e Kith.

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