Good To The Last Drop [Monday Meeting Notes]

Monday Meeting

LM_Altar Boys

Like our friends in the illustration from V20 Ghouls above by Lawrence Van Der Mewe, it seems like we are waiting for so many things to get to that next stage. Drop by drop…

Hang in there, true believers!

Mirthful Mike has four books in layout, we have several major projects being edited, we are banging at the gates of the M20 PoD printer, and Exalted 3rd‘s PDF is headed towards CCP for their OK after we made the changes they needed.

You folks are going to have a cornucopia of game book choices to make between now and the end of the year.

Meanwhile, to mock our impatience at nothing having changed this week from last week, our Onyx Path Monday Meeting was reallllly long. We had two main items on the agenda, and both required more than an hour to discuss.

The first was our plans for October, and the Halloween treats we expect to share with you every single day of that month.

Then, we took a serious look at how Onyx Path deals with and compensates our freelance developers, writers, and editors. This was a conversation we started earlier in the year, discussed at Gen Con, and which some of our devs and writers have also been discussing with us post-Gen Con. It’s an important thing, and one that I think we are now able to review with a few years of publishing under our belts. Most of the freelance processes we have been using we inherited from our years with White Wolf, and Onyx Path‘s business model (while based on the many things I learned there) continues to evolve.

So we need to evolve better methods of compensation as well.

None of which might be interesting to our community, and certainly I’m not dropping fascinating insider details on this post as we’re still trying to figure out what form that evolution will take, but this is the sort of thing that rightly matters to those of us that bring you the fun. So we talk about it. A lot. Trying to find the right (Onyx) path forward. It’s a start, and I will let you in on more details once we put things in motion that we’ve figured out.

OK- I’m off to send more email screeches about finding and fixing the issues with M20 to our PoD printers, and redesigning the Exalted 3rd PDF/PoD cover with Maria, the EX3 art director, after our original artist bailed. (Don’t worry, fixing that will not hold up the backer PDF).




And now, the BLURBS!

Vampire 20th Anniversary Edition: The Dark Ages is NOW available in PDF and PoD versions at! This massive full color tome is part of the V20 line but does not require V20 to play and enjoy.




The Pugmire Pamphlet we had available at Gen Con is now ready for PDF download. Read about the world of Pugmire from the enthusiastic and optimistic pen of Princess Yosha Pug, as well as notes from the gruff and worldly hunter Pan Daschund:


The sixth and final Pugmire poster for now, Spike Mutt, is on the loose now as a free PDF or $.99 physical poster, suitable for framing:

The fifth Pugmire poster, Pan Dachshund, is ready now as a free PDF or $.99 physical poster, suitable for framing:

The fourth Pugmire poster, Jack Rat-Terrier, is on-sale now as a free PDF or $.99 physical poster, suitable for framing:

The third Pugmire poster, Sgt. Leo Bulldog, is available NOW as a free PDF or $.99 physical poster, suitable for framing:

The second poster, Princess Yosha Pug, is available now:

And the first poster, Sister Picassa Collie, is here:

Start spreading the Code of Man!




Dread Names, Red List for V20 is now on sale! This collection of the most dangerous Kindred ever called Anathema is available in both PDF and hardcover PoD versions:

Dread Names, Red List



We’re finalizing plans for a big Onyx Path presence at Mid Winter Con again this year this January in Milwaukee. Big blurb when that is all worked out.

I’ll be at Ovino in Milan, Italy signing Magic the Gathering cards on October 2-4, so any of our community in the area that wants to stop by and say “Ciao”, I’d love to see you. More thoughts on that convention next week.



And now, the unchanged new project status updates!:

DEVELOPMENT STATUS FROM ROLLICKING ROSE (projects in bold have changed status since last week):

First Draft (The first phase of a project that is about the work being done by writers, not dev prep)

  • M20 Book of Secrets (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Exalted 3rd Novel by Matt Forbeck (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • CtL anthology (Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition)
  • Pugmire Early Access
  • Dark Eras Companion (nWod Dark Eras)
  • Changeling: the Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition
  • V20 Ready Made Characters (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Beast Ready Made Characters (Beast: the Primordial)
  • Beast Fiction Anthology (Beast: the Primordial)
  • Cavaliers of Mars



  • Mummy Fiction Anthology (Mummy: the Curse)
  • Wraith: the Oblivion 20th Anniversary Edition
  • Cursed Necropolis: Rio (Mummy: the Curse)
  • Beckett’s Jyhad Diary (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition, featuring the Huntsmen Chronicle (Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition)- In Open Development
  • WtF The Pack (Werewolf: the Forsaken 2nd Edition)
  • VtM Lore of the Bloodlines (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • WtA Kinfolk (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)


Second Draft

  • Arms of the Chosen (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Secrets of the Covenants (Vampire: The Requiem 2nd Edition)
  • The Realm (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Dragon-Blooded (Exalted 3rd Edition)



  • StoryPath System Rules (Base rules set for Scion and the Trinity Continuum)
  • Scarred Lands Player’s Guide: Ghelspad (Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
  • W20 Changing Ways (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • nWoD Hurt Locker (World of Darkness 2nd Edition)
  • M20 Anthology (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Dark Eras Expansions (nWod Dark Eras)



  • V20 Ghouls (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • V20 Black Hand: Guide to the Tal’Mahe’Ra (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • W20 Shattered Dreams (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Demon Storytellers’ Guide (Demon: the Descent)
  • Promethean: the Created 2nd Edition, featuring the Firestorm Chronicle (Promethean: the Created)
  • Mage: the Awakening  2nd Edition, featuring the Fallen World Chronicle (Mage: the Awakening)
  • W20 Pentex Employee Indoctrination Handbook (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)


Post-Editing Development:




In Art Direction

  • V20 Ghouls – All artwork approved.
  • Tal Me Rah – AD’d… some sketches are coming in.
  • W20 Shattered Dreams – Almost all the finals are in.
  • V20 Lore of the Clans – Gaydos working on halfs.
  • Pentex Employee Indoctrination Manual – Holding off until new text is in.
  • Demon STG –  Sketches starting come in.
  • Mage: the Awakening Second – Almost done contracting. Had a few that fell through due to schedule conflicts, but everything going good.
  • Promethean: the Created Second – Contacting possible full page and splat artists.


In Layout

  • Lore of the Clans – roughing in the new stuff while art is in progress.
  • Dreams of Avarice – Art is in, started during the meeting.
  • NWoD 2 – Also starting this week. For reals.
  • Beast: The Primordial – Working on corrections.



  • M20 How Do You Do That ?!? – It’s with Phil.
  • Ex 3 Anthology – Awaiting updated text file.
  • Ex 3 core book – RichT here: Maria is sending me her corrected PDF pages tonight. We’ll need to resubmit them to CCP, as per their request, but the changes were consistent style and format concerns mostly. We will also be awaiting the Page XX page numbers from the Devs for Maria to input, which Holden realized it was time to do before sending the backer PDF out.


At Press

  • V20DA Rolling along. Screen is as well.
  • M20 – Still hoping issues worked out.
  • M20 Screen– At the Printer.


Special- projects on hold until an external factor is resolved

  • Dark Eras
  • Wraith 20  
  • Pentex Employee Indoctrination Manual


TODAY’S REASON TO DRINK: Good to the last drop! But that’s coffee, which I can’t drink. So, booze it is!

  60 comments for “Good To The Last Drop [Monday Meeting Notes]

  1. Rain
    September 14, 2015 at 9:57 pm

    Well, I can’t speak for everyone, but as someone always happy to see contributor bonus stretch goals… I’m always interested and care that the people creating my fun are being compensated for it.

    • Chris Handforth
      September 14, 2015 at 10:47 pm


    • Erinys
      September 15, 2015 at 1:39 pm

      I like them too. RPG writers don’t seem to be paid very well in general, so it’s nice to try to improve that as a stretch goal.

      • richt
        September 15, 2015 at 2:46 pm

        That was the general idea of including that stretch goal when we can: trying to add a little bit to our creators’ compensation outside the standard rates.

        • hivemind
          September 15, 2015 at 10:46 pm

          A great idea all around. It could really encourage writers and artist to give fans the best and continue Onyx Path as a high quality company. Not to mention it might attract more talent. I see it only helping you guys and us fans.

  2. Chris Handforth
    September 14, 2015 at 10:47 pm

    Any luck with getting the Gencon audio online Specifically the one about writing for Onyx Path? I know I asked a couple of weeks ago, but I’d really like to hear it!

    • Ian A. A. Watson
      September 15, 2015 at 6:14 am

      I wasn’t able to attend that panel and so didn’t record audio for it.

      • Dave Brookshaw
        September 15, 2015 at 10:20 am

        I was, and I might have done – I recorded a couple of them. I’ll check.

        • Chris Handforth
          September 15, 2015 at 2:25 pm

          Thanks Dave. That’s definitely appreciated!

  3. WuseMajor
    September 14, 2015 at 11:10 pm

    …So, wait, you already sent the Ex3 files to CCP, got back the requested changes, and said changes are pretty much done? Huh.


    • richt
      September 15, 2015 at 2:47 pm

      Yep- there were a fair number of comments but a lot of them were style-based or questions.

  4. dwight
    September 14, 2015 at 11:14 pm

    Its looking like magetober next month. Any hints on how did you do that will be done proofing with Phil

    • richt
      September 15, 2015 at 6:08 am

      We’re asking him specifically “what’s up with that” now.

      • dwight
        September 15, 2015 at 7:59 am

        I see what you did there

  5. dwight
    September 14, 2015 at 11:14 pm

    Its looking like magetober next month. Any hints on how did you do that will be done proofing with Phil?

  6. SSmith
    September 14, 2015 at 11:18 pm

    Jesus, that Wraith curse is no joke. Is this somehow my fault? Should I be sacrificing more people?

    • Crüjen
      September 15, 2015 at 12:08 am

      How else are they going to Moliate the copies of the deluxe edition?

      I mean, “print.” Yes, that’s it – print.

      • Victor J Kinzer
        September 15, 2015 at 9:31 am

        Crüjen, it’s a crime that I can’t like comments on this system, because that needs a like.

        Rich T, this may not be a question that you’re prepared to answer and I totally respect that wall but I do want to ask just in case you’re comfortable speaking to this dynamic in some limited way. Has there been any discussion about what the plan going forward is for creating an overarching cWoD experience? The fact that the first 5 games were all at least idea level planned on paper is mentioned in the Mage20 afterword and something that seems to be evolving as the 20th anniversary lines move forward is that they are all being handled very differently. Vampire, Werewolf and Mage all have strong development capacity, though they’re being approached with somewhat different philosophies (V 4th moving forward the canon, Mage being designed in the most canon agnostic way possible for the next several years at least based on the current timeline). Given the concerns around Dansky’s available time it seems unlikely that we could see a game line expansion like V20, W20, or M20 have going. Changeling is too early to tell one way or the other, but Matt is lead dev on 3 Onyx Path lines, and then has Chill. I don’t know how many of those projects are going to involve ongoing development, but I can’t lie I am ready to throw my whole bank account at you if C20 gets development throughput like V20 or M20 once the main book is done. I want to be in the state of utter destitution that will cause let me promise you, and I feel similarly about Wr20 once the main book is finished.

        So, I guess my question is just with the issues we’ve seen with first books what is Onyx Path’s longer game world development vision from a cWoD multi year perspective?

        Yeah looking over this post I’m really not expecting a response, but what the heck, I’ll press post anyway.

        • richt
          September 15, 2015 at 2:51 pm

          We do look at each line individually and try and make them work in terms of their own needs. So, for example, we know that Wr20 was a good KS and we have projects coming from that. That sounds like we will look at other possible books after we get the KS ones accomplished. Will RichD be able to develop those? At this point, we need to get the Wr20 text finished then Rich and I will talk about it.

          So for the other lines we have the same approach of seeing what their individual situations are.

          • Victor J Kinzer
            September 15, 2015 at 3:48 pm

            I do appreciate the response. I know my initially question was very broad in scope. I always played World of Darkness as a single game. While any given chronicle would be built around the themes most appropriate to the supers the players were focusing on I played it as one big world, and I LOVED the narrative themes that strung throughout the game lines. nWoD is much more sandboxy, where as the threads that ran through old world were more about consistent themes seen from multiple perspectives (Corruption of life on earth, death of magick, corruption of the afterlife, death of wonder, etc).

            I still very much look for that synchronicity between the oWoD perspectives, and really hope once all 5 game lines are running again there will be solid opportunities for that kind of development.

    • richt
      September 15, 2015 at 6:11 am

      Unless you are the boss at RichD’s day job, it’s not your fault. As I explained to KS backers, Rich and I worked out the timetable based on the amount of work he could do in his spare time _at the time_. He then got hammered with projects from his day job, and video games are a biz that often requires crazy amounts of hours. He is getting through the text, but much more slowly than we planned.

  7. Anaximander
    September 15, 2015 at 12:13 am

    Just want to say that I think a lot of us ARE interested in how freelancers and developers are paid. We like to know OP takes care of its own, and that all at the work they do is adequately compensated. We love our OPers and want them to be able to eat! (And many in the community want to someday join them, so it’s interesting to see how it all works.)

    • Yiodan
      September 15, 2015 at 8:17 am


    • Colin Fredericks
      September 15, 2015 at 2:12 pm

      Agreed! Heck, some of us are even interested in an OGL-like license…

      • WuseMajor
        September 15, 2015 at 5:42 pm

        The main problem with something similar to the OGL is that it invites people who are not you to make money off this game and doesn’t carry with it any promise of quality control.

        To put it bluntly, the D20 OGL seems to have worked great for Paizo, but not so much for WotC.

        • Colin Fredericks
          September 16, 2015 at 11:04 am

          Are you trying to say that Paizo put out low-quality products and it worked great for them? That doesn’t make any sense. Paizo succeeded precisely because they stood out from a sea of middling d20 and OGL products. I also don’t see D&D3 having the impact it did without those licenses in place. Even White Wolf benefited from them.

          I’m not looking for the OGL precisely, though – one can license in all kinds of ways, including ones that require approval. And people can *always* write unofficial supplements as long as they don’t violate copyright, trademark, or patent law. Licensing just channels that, and sets out clear guidelines that cut down on unnecessary lawsuits.

    • richt
      September 15, 2015 at 2:52 pm

      That’s awesome! There’s no way to overstate how important it is for RPG creators to hear that sort of support from our community.

      • Colin Fredericks
        September 16, 2015 at 11:14 am

        Consider my support given here as well. Every time you list “pay bump” as an option on a kickstarter, I’ll vote for that. It’s been a pleasure to see White Wolf grow and change into Onyx Path over the years, and the quality has just gone up and up.

  8. Alessandro V.
    September 15, 2015 at 1:52 am

    wow! this is really a pleasant surprise.
    I live near Milan and I have some friends attends at the Ovino this year.
    Now I have a big reason to go with them at the Ovino.
    I can’t wait to have the chance to meet you there Rich.

    • richt
      September 15, 2015 at 6:06 am

      That would be great! Looking forward to seeing you there.

  9. September 15, 2015 at 7:31 am

    The news about Exalted is amazing. I didn’t think it’d be this far, because I know stuff like lookovers can take a while. So excited!

    Also, hearing all this about how freelancers get paid… I know more than a few, and knowing that you care about trying to make things better all around… that’s important to me.

    Thanks for all the great news!

    • richt
      September 15, 2015 at 2:53 pm

      It’s very important to me as well. Thanks!

  10. Bunyip
    September 15, 2015 at 8:06 am

    Wonderful to read about considerations happening for the freelancer model. Also great to read the messages of support for all the people involved in producing the games. Many thanks 🙂

    • richt
      September 15, 2015 at 2:55 pm

      Case in point- it really does make it “worth it” to be in this business when our community writes in to show their interest and support of our creators as creators, not just faceless drones who provide folks with entertainment.

      • Yiodan
        September 15, 2015 at 7:35 pm

        Well, of course we care. It would be hard not to.

        Speaking for myself (but I’m probably not the only one in similar situations) I’ve enjoyed your work for DECADES and have resonated with it on a very deep level. As you very well know, role playing games can and do have a strong impact on a person. I can safely say that Werewolf has changed me and the way I look at life in a rather significant way. I cannot ignore that I owe much of my philosophical evolution to the works Ethan Skemp and his teams. I have to credit you guys for all the fun I’ve had enjoying my favorite hobby for many many years. How can I begin to repay the friendships I’ve made?

        And on a more individuals vs faceless drones level, Richt, I’ve been reading your blog for years now. Faithfully. Every. Week. I don’t always have time to post, but I always read it. Over the years, we’ve shared stories and jokes and even, if you remember, a world-wide synchronized drink to try and cheer you up once.

        I hope you don’t mind me saying this, but as silly or forward as it may sound, especially since I never actually met any of you, it still feels like at least on some level some of you are acquaintances by now. In a way? I mean, it’s a customer/provider type relationship, of course, but not a cold corporate kind of one? It’s not easy to define but the point is, yes, I care about the team and the fact that working conditions are improving. And I hope it continues to do so.

      • NateD
        September 16, 2015 at 12:31 am

        Great to hear that discussions like this are happening (and not *just* talking as a freelancer either, although it’s given me a whole new appreciation for how hard the devs’ jobs must be!)

        I was just thinking about how awesome yet seemingly-unattainable it would be to be a full-time RPG writer, actually. Livin’ the dream.

        *sighs wistfully*

  11. gyre
    September 15, 2015 at 8:12 am

    Any chance of another Sardonyx/Storypath teaser? If I had the combat/damage system, I could run my own playtests.

    • Neall
      September 15, 2015 at 8:57 am

      There’s a strong chance! It’s on my docket.

      • Yiodan
        September 15, 2015 at 7:12 pm

        Hi! Thank you for that. I truly am looking forward to more Sardonyx. However, I’d like to make a suggestion if you are open to it.

        Would it be possible to offer a trimmed down version too? Don’t get me wrong, I love the work you are doing and the opportunity to read through it but the previous peaks were rather massive documents. I’m sure people with more time than me are loving it as is, and it’s wonderful that you put some much out in the open, but, I would be eternally grateful if a “gist of it” version existed for those of us who are always in a hurry and would like to still know what great new ideas you came up with.

        Thank you.

        • Loki Ashaman
          September 15, 2015 at 8:11 pm

          Yiodan’s reply perfectly captures my thoughts regarding WW/Onxy Path. I almost never comment, but I always read the blog. Even though I’m in Taiwan on business this week, I still make a point to read the blog as soon as it is posted, and come back a few times through the week to follow the conversations. The success of the developers and freelancers is as important to me as the continued production of awesome work.

          • Nemo Oceansoul
            September 15, 2015 at 10:25 pm

            as several people have already posted, i too watch the blog and come back throughout the week.

            im fairly new to the role-playing scene in general, but its definitely helped me meet a ton of new people, ive matured quite a bit because of it, and i must say the only reason i got into it was because i finally was introduced to a system that actually kept my attention and interest long enough for me to actually stay with it. sure early middle school my brother tried teaching me D&D but honestly i didnt find it any fun, too many rules, to many variables, and honestly was not as interesting as it could have been. its thanks to White Wolf/OP that ive been able to finally understand just how fun tabletop games can be, and in a way its helped me expand my horizons beyond the narrowness that i had say a year and a half ago. as a person ive grown, and i believe ill continue to grow as i continue to find and meet new people with different world views. my growth may not be obvious, even to me, but i can see that i have in hindsight.

            honestly its thanks to you guys that i have and that i have met as many great people because of it.

            so from the bottom of my heart i only have this to say:

            ^~^ thank you. and please keep up the awesome work.

        • Neall
          September 16, 2015 at 11:28 am

          Yeah, I could do that fairly easily – a couple of hundred words talking about each discrete portion of the system and how they tie together. When you see the next system peek, you’ll get that along with it.

          • Yiodan
            September 16, 2015 at 11:55 am

            Much obliged. You are officially my favorite person for the day.

  12. Lumpy
    September 15, 2015 at 10:12 am

    Is there any kind of progress being made on Scion? It’s been in development for an insanely long time. Meanwhile Pugmire has flown right past it a warp speed. Now I do realize that work is being done on it behind the scenes, and I realize it shares a core system with Trinity, but is there any kind of progress report we might get some time soon? As a fan of the game it is frustrating to watch project reach completion and it just sits in development.

    • richt
      September 15, 2015 at 3:03 pm

      Neall has been answering questions on our forums about Scion for a couple of months as a way to get some info out of at least what he has now or his intentions, but yes, both Scion and Trinity require their rules system to be finished before actual integrated work can happen.

    • Ian A. A. Watson
      September 15, 2015 at 9:36 pm

      If you click on Scion (or Trinity Continuum) in the top menu, you can see some [Codename Sardonyx] posts Neall has made about the system in development.

      Until the system is done, we can’t progress on Scion or Trinity.

  13. Bob
    September 15, 2015 at 10:44 am

    Is there going to be a 20th anniversary edition of Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom and/or Kindred of the East.

    And will there be a V20 Chicago by Night. I really liked the original Chicago Chronicles. A V20 update would be great.

    • marin
      September 15, 2015 at 11:07 am

      They’re doing the announced V20 books, then moving onto 4th edition, so no V20 Ebony Kingdom or Chicago (and I suspect no KotE 20th, given its ties to Vampire).

      4th edition is another matter.

      • Bob
        September 15, 2015 at 12:01 pm

        You do have a point, but since V4 will be set after Gehenna will have a major impact on the entire game and the background may be changed to much,

        V20 Chicago can be set after the current Chicago Chronicles and will maintain some of the feel of the current Vampire: The Masquerade.

  14. UnsilentMajority
    September 15, 2015 at 11:06 am

    “You folks are going to have a cornucopia of game book choices to make between now and the end of the year.”

    Choices? What are those, Rich? I’m buying them ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

    • richt
      September 15, 2015 at 2:57 pm

      This plan! I love this plan! I would never talk you out of that plan.

    • Metamurpho
      September 16, 2015 at 6:53 pm

      Too true, Silent; too true!

  15. atamajakki
    September 15, 2015 at 12:35 pm

    It’s real shame about Wraith and Dark Eras, but seeing Dreams of Avarice finally move forward lifts my heart.

    • Chris Handforth
      September 15, 2015 at 2:36 pm

      Is it the same think impacting both of them? It could just as easily be that Dark Eras is still in its holding pattern and the external factor is the editing process of the added chapters.

      • richt
        September 15, 2015 at 3:00 pm

        No, not at all. Wr20 has been slowed down by Rich Dansky’s day job, and Dark Eras got more chapters added to it, and other stuff, with its KS as we expected. Mirthful Mike just has to hold off on getting those new parts into the existing layout- remember, he pretty much had the whole book layout done as it stood before the KS.

    • richt
      September 15, 2015 at 2:57 pm

      Yep, it’s happening.

  16. Andrew Thomas
    September 15, 2015 at 11:37 pm

    Glad to see that things are running smoothly with Beast.

  17. sean
    September 16, 2015 at 8:06 am

    hey i just got the 20th edition V:masqurade and i love it. but im not curently running any vamp games. I AM however running 2 mage games, and was hoping that i could get a ca. date for when the full edition of mage 20th release for buying in print?
    best regards

    • richt
      September 16, 2015 at 8:39 am

      Check out the part about Mage20 in my blog above the Updates and Blurbs. Our PoD printer is having issues and has bogged down getting the PoD versions available.

  18. Kim
    September 18, 2015 at 5:15 am

    Hey, RichT!

    Is it possible to get an end of the week update/status on how Exalted has progressed during the week? ^^
    I don’t want to intrude, I’m just excited!

    Long time backer, long time fan

Comments are closed.