With 71 votes, the Lie won out. So, picking up from where we left off;
The universe isn’t only the Supernal, defining concepts, and the Fallen, embodying them. When mages use their Sight, they frequently see signs of corruption, warped or nonsensical symbols infecting the world. If the symbols of the Supernal Realms represent everything that’s True, providing meaning to the platonic concepts the Fallen World embodies, then the Abyss is everything that can’t be. Every so often, part of the Fallen World becomes so overwhelmed by the poisonous anti-symbols of the Abyss that impossibility breaks through to become real, an intruding Paradox that damages the world around it. On rare occassions, these intrusions happen “naturally.” More often, mages overextend themselves or fall to a moment’s weakness when casting spells, accidentally allowing something of the Abyss through. Both are drops in the ocean, though, compared to the Lie.
The Lie is a curse, a spiritual affliction affecting every human soul. It closes the eyes of humanity to their potential, makes them ignore or rationalize away the supernatural and suppresses magic when their souls near it. Deep in his soul, every human knows that he is powerless and insignificant, without the ability to affect the universe’s laws. It’s all-pervasive, written into the fabric of reality. No matter how confident or successful the person, the Lie is always there, worming away at her. Telling her she’s only human, as if there’s anything “only” about it.
The Lie is the combination of harsh Supernal truths – the symbols of tyranny, oppression, slavery, and control – and the paradoxical energies of the Abyss, making Sleepers simultaneously vulnerable to those occult symbols’ influence and masking that influence from them. When confronted with the Supernal, whether its rare natural manifestations or, more often, obvious magical effects caused by spells, the Abyss in Sleeper witness’ souls lulls them, forcing them to forget. Other supernatural occurrences don’t provoke the Abyss that obviously, but the Lie still has a subtle effect, predisposing the inhabitants of the World of Darkness to silence, putting the thought of the monsters among them out of mind. Some people, especially those with minor magical talents themselves – are free of this “Quiescence”, but are still affected by the greater Lie. Still unable to see past the Fallen World, but able to remember magic clearly, mages describe these people as “Sleepwalkers” – not Sleepers, but not Awakened.
Mages see through the Lie when they Awaken; each of the five Paths reveals a facet of it. They’re still human, still part of the Fallen World, but they can look past it, guided by their Paths. Often, Awakening is triggered by a confrontation with the Lie, a crisis where the mage-to-be refuses to accept it.
The Lie is too elaborate and too finely targeted to be an accident according to the Orders. There’s a guiding intelligence behind it. Mages know that some symbols have a semblance of life. They summon Supernal entities, pulling them from the Supernal World into the Fallen. Most are content to let mages come to them, but the occult symbols bound up in the Lie are evidence that something, deep in the unseen Supernal Realms, is actively trying to cripple humanity’s ability to perceive beyond the Fallen World. More than trying – it’s succeeding.
What this enemy is depends on the tale, but the Diamond and Seers use the Greek word for “rule from the outside.”
“Exarch.”
—
Sleepers
Mechanically, every human character in the World of Darkness that isn’t Awakened or a Sleepwalker is a Sleeper. In the Fallen World Chronicle, the Sleeper rules extend the Integrity rules found in the God-Machine Chronicle, Strix Chronicle, and Idigam Chronicle, centered around that most Magely of Breaking Point questions:
What Have You Forgotten?
The basics of being a Sleeper are as follows;
- If a Sleeper character perceives an obviously magical effect caused by Supernal magic (whether it’s the powers of a Supernal entity or a mage’s spell) they immediately suffer a Breaking Point against Integrity.
- If a Sleeper is present when a mage tries to cast a spell with an obviously magical effect, they add a die of Paradox Risk. Multiple Sleepers don’t add more dice, but apply a dice trick to the Paradox roll: 9-again for a couple of people, 8-again for a dispersed group like urban foot traffic, and rote factor for a large crowd.
- Sleepers who come into contact with obvious spells after they’ve been cast slowly dispel them, in an effect mages call “Dissonance”
- Quiescence: The scene after a Sleeper witnesses a spell – whether they caused it to crumble under Dissonance or not – they forget about it. Their memory warps, and they rationalize the event away or substitute a non-magical equivalent. Convincingly reminding them (including using magic to do so) causes them to suffer another Breaking Point, and then forget again.
—
Next Week! How the Abyss affects – and is the byblow of – mages, or how mages see through the Lie themselves? Paradox or Mage Sight?
Comments
145 responses to “I’ll Lie To You”
Mage Sight!
Paradox 😀
Paradox.
I like how it ties back into Integrity for Sleepers.
Vote: Mage Sight
Mage Sight for me too.
I’m really digging the mix of a bit of mechanical spoiler with the setting write up as context, btw. Not only contextualizes the concepts, it gives us something to try out in our existing campaigns.
Mage sight!!!
Add a die– er, vote to Paradox!
I vote for Paradox
Wow. So, in order to be a servant of the Lie, you have to be the kind of person who enforce’s humanity’s collective inferiority complex, keeps on telling it “you’re nothing, you’re just a mortal, there’s nothing you can do, get in line it’s the only way to save your worthless hide,” etc.
Kinda shows why the Free Council has a stricture on DESTROYING these people.
Mage Sight, if you wouldn’t mind, we know enough about Paradox mechanics from the forum spoilers to satiate me.
Mage-sight!
Paradox! I always liked the idea of manifestations being the Abyss after it’s been transformed by a willworker’s understanding and perspective. Since it started as nothing, it uses the mage’s mind set as a frame of reference, which not only allows it to understand the mage’s innermost workings, but also torture itself, as its nature is twisted to something it cannot fully accept or comprehend. And in its pain becomes mad and dangerous.
An example being, like say… one manifestation made by a shaman who was casting a spell to heal a wound. It failed, and the manifestation became something of a spirit that focused on the paradox of one aspect found within healing the wound, whether cell structure, morality, or micro-organisms, but then it uses the mage’s personality as its own, copying it and then twisting it into something abnormal and tormenting. That is how a manifestation is born, and from it the nightmares of oblivion.
Mage Sight
Mage Sight! Please and thank you!
Mage sight definitely.
The Diamond and the Seers call them ‘Exarch’…makes you wonder about the Free Council, doesn’t it?
My vote, as an aside, is for Mage Sight.
Pretty sure *they* use creative and colorful four-letter descriptions pretty regularly.
It could be interesting if the Pentacle takes Atlantis more literally, but the Free Council takes Exarchs more literally.
(I lean, ever so slightly, towards Mage Sight)
Mage Sight! Love the glimpse at changes to paradox.
I really like how the Lie is now a combination of the symbols and will of the Exarchs along with the anti-symbolism of the Abyss. Definitely reminds us of the importance of that dread Exarch known only as The Gate.
I really want to know the full mechanics of Paradox, but I think we need something to cheer us up after the Fallen World with all its Lies, Quiescence, and Dissonance.
I vote Mage Sight.
Really looking forward to ths,update to Awakening.. Paradox.
Paradox
Mage Sight!
THat’s fairly clearer, yes.
Mage Sight-I can break reality after I understand it.
Ah, but breaking things BEFORE you understand it is half the fun!
A pyrotechnic with an understanding of a building’s infrastructure can make a more spectacular explosion than a kid just setting shit off.
How do these rules work in conjunction with, say, a psychic? Or a thaumaturgist? Or any of the ‘mortal…plus’ types? Are they, too, unable to even /remember/ the presence of magic?
Anyone with a supernatural template, minor or major counts as a Sleepwalker.
” Some people, especially those with minor magical talents themselves – are free of this “Quiescence”, but are still affected by the greater Lie. Still unable to see past the Fallen World, but able to remember magic clearly, mages describe these people as “Sleepwalkers” – not Sleepers, but not Awakened.”
Essentially, psychics, thaumaturgists, demon-blooded, possessed, purified, and so on are considered sleepwalkers.
Mage Sight, please!
So how do most mages react to the Lie when they learn about it and its powers? Knowing that unless their friends and family are special little snowflake, the mage cannot reveal their special abilities to them? That must be infuriating to a mage whose been taught they are the best of humanity by a master. Do they fight against the Lie? Do some stalwart mages study for years in mountain temples, searching through scrolls so ancient that the languages have been lost a thousand times over? Hoping against hope, they can find some lost spell that can break the Lie, though they don’t fully grasp how deep the Lie is weaved into the fabric of the mages world?
I vote for Paradox.
Terribly infuriating, and the cause of a thousand minor tragedies when mages can’t be honest with their loved ones.
The best analogy I have for how mages react emotionally to the state the rest of humanity is in is the hyper-rich. They really are the 1%; some try to help (although, if they were honest with themselves, they’d admit they help because they *want* to help), some look to influence Sleepers “for their own good”, some withdraw from dealing with anyone who isn’t a mage, and some engage in outright victim-blaming.
I vote Mage Sight.
Mage Sight.
I like how it doesn’t just build on the Integrity rules; it explains that at least one set of Integrity Break Points is the result of the Lie.
Which in turn implies that if you’re a Sleepwalker, you don’t suffer Integrity Breaking Points for witnessing supernatural phenomena. That makes being a Sleepwalker useful even in games where Supernal Magic never makes an appearance.
Let’s continue this train of thought a bit further: I want to learn more about the new system for Paradox.
I’m still leery of the notion that lesser templates automatically make you a Sleepwalker, especially with its implied exemption to all “witness to supernatural” Breaking Points. Just because a vampire enslaves you by feeding you some blood, that shouldn’t mean that seeing a ghost shouldn’t threaten your Integrity anymore.
Putting aside that there’s no likely exemption, the way Quiescence is being broadened out to cover all supernatural effects necessitates lesser templates qualifying for sleepwalker; otherwise they’d be unable to use their own abilities without rationalizing away the results.
Quiescence is now a canonical explanation for how the little m masquerade that keeps everyone from recognizing that the world is full of monsters is so effective. I’m not sure how I feel about *that*, but if you grant it, the rest has to follow.
It doesn’t imply that at all. The lie makes you forget, it doesn’t generate trauma. So sleepwalkers would still suffer breaking points for witnessing supernatural events, at least until they became commonplace enough to desensitize them, but unlike Sleepers they wouldn’t forget, ignore, or rationalize them away.
Actually, it _does_ generate trauma. Witnessing Supernal magic is an Integrity breaking point.
And Dave mentioned somewhere that the business about witnessing supernatural phenomena being an Integrity breaking point was done in anticipation of Mage’s overhaul, as part of “the Lie conceals more than just the Supernal”.
I’m sorry that should have said doesn’t generate *the* trauma (at least in the case of non supernal incidences). The trauma comes from being freaked out. The Lie makes you forget. You never get to get over it if you keep forgetting, because you can’t be desensitized, but there are plenty of non supernatural breaking points, and even without the Lie fogging up your recollection of events, you’d be just as effected as you are by those. A ghost haunting someone who has no experience with ghosts is still going to be freaked out and suffer distress, sleepwalker or no. They’re just going to accept it as a ghost and not a weird hallucination that they put out of their mind after it stops.
Or to be clearer and more concise; even to the extent that being a sleepwalker makes it so that witnessing a supernatural event is no longer an *automatic* breaking point, that wouldn’t turn the supernatural into a get out of jail free card for Integrity. Seeing the victim of a brutal murder is a breaking point; witnessing a Vampire rip someone’s throat out doesn’t stop being one just because it’s a Vampire doing it. Traumatic supernatural events are still going to be traumatic. At most you’re not impacted by the benign things.
Paradox
Paradox!
And stuff.
This is getting very interesting, you could say it feels like an addiction. I need to know more. I’ll vote for Paradox.
Also I have a doubt. Are the sleeper’s memories erased or repressed? Can a mage peer into the witness’s mind to see what happened without forcing him to remember?
Now, see, this is why we do these blogs! I don’t think anyone thought of that – but it’s a good point we should definitely address.
I think the Abyss ate my comment. Quite appropriate, since I’m voting for Paradox.
I’m hoping learning a post on Paradox will have a few hints on how rotes have been overhauled.
Mage Sight please
Paradox
This is great stuff!
Paradox, please.
Mage Sight, though I do hope we see Paradox soon, the little hints you’ve given are very, very interesting.
Paradox!
It seems like the Abyss, through allowing impossibilities in the Supernal’s totalitarian “this is true” aspect, is what allows for rebelling against the Lie.
The Truth seems more like a confining system, akin to the Technocracy’s Consensus. Obviously there’s no consensual reality in Awakening, but there seems to be an arbitrary morality pinned to everything.
Or am I missing it and the Abyss is chaotic evil?
The Abyss doesn’t have a morality (except when it does, as it is inherently contradictory) — it’s a breakdown in reality. Abyssal intrusions poision the Fallen World around them as they interfere with the Fallen-Supernal duality. It can have beneficial effects, but they’ll always come with a hefty side-serving of Zalgo.
HE COMES
Hard vote is hard………………… I’ll vote for Mage Sight.
Nice article. Voting for Mage Sight again.
Mage Sight – definately.
And as option for the future, I wish there will be some information about the other changes in the magic system you already hinted at, like mage armor and other gimmicks you gain as non-spells at higher levels.
I give Paradox a vote. And pursue those discussions, they are quite interesting ^^
something that is boun to be questioned,
what happens with electronic recording??
if i have a figth with an abyssal intrusion in the middle of the airport people is going to remember terroris atack or somthing like that, but the camaras are going to show a 10 feet tall eldrich horror
Mage Sight!
I love the positive idea inherent in “Telling you you’re only human. As if there was anything ‘only’ about it.” It’s very spiritual in a hopeful way.
I also like that it kind of helps slide a little in-universe explanation into humanity’s tendency to forget or want to keep quiet into the Mage setting. It’s a key component of the genre, but it definitely helps.
Mage Sight again.
Mage Sight, Please. Also, why do you always have to make the choice so hard?
A choice that is not hard is not really a choice. 🙂
MAGE SIGHT PLEASE!!!
I really like the theme these excerpts are building themselves upon. Seeing the lie as an interplay between two different forces helps clarify it for me–and adds a bit of depth, in my opinion.
I also like the snippet of mechanics, there. I like the idea of the number of witnesses present has that large of an impact on the paradox pool (like a large crowd turning the roll into a rote action). It definitely adds a little bit of punch to the paradox mechanics and illustrates exactly how dangerous reckless mages can be.
The choice this week is really, really difficult to make, but for now, I’ll have to go with Mage Sight. Looking forward to next week’s post!
Mage Sight
Wow, that is… that is *great*! And I love how ambiguous the existence of the Exarchs is now, right from the start.
I honestly don’t mind which one we get next, but I think I want Mage Sight a liiiittle more.
Mage Sight!
Echoing earlier comments when I say the “Telling you you’re only human. As if there was anything ‘only’ about it.” was a great line.
Mage Sight!
Sa-weeet!
Nice fluff focusing, and even more nicely written!
And well, while Paradox is interesting, I stand by my vote from last time:
MAGE SIGHT! 😀
I really want to know more about Paradox in the new edition, but Mage Sight is the most essential mechanic of Mages as it allows them to experience what they’ve become and uncover the Mysteries of the Fallen World – the eponymous story-catalyst of this new book.
Mage Sight is my vote. It is to Mages as feeding is to Vampires
Paradox!
Mage Sight, please.
Paradox
Mage Sight.
“You’re only human…..as if there were anything “just” about it”. I swooned when I read that line. Makes me want to run a cosmic scale mage game to shatter the lie once and for all! Evocative stuff!
And perhaps spark a War for Consensual Reality. I like that idea immensely. 🙂
Mage Sight!!!
Mage Sight
I’ve found it’s always better to address the problem before solution. Lets learn what we can about how the Abyss infects the Fallen World.
Definitely Paradox
Mage Sight!!!
I’ll vote for mage sight
Mage Sight please
Excellent stuff. I vote for Mage Sight. Please.
I’m also very interested as to how people forget witnessing Supernal precisely. Also, I concur in making obvious statement about electrical recordings in context of Lie – are spells or Abyssal manifestation leave a trace on camera? Could Supernal being be seen in Network Zero video footage? They are important question to be answer if Lie is made in to pervasive force of universe.
My vote goes to Paradox, as I always felt it needed redone, from first coming of Mage corebook. Mage Sight can wait a bit. 😉
Exarchs sound like they’re taking on a bigger role now. I like where this is going.
Speaking of going, let’s keep. The Lie naturally leads to Paradox, so that’s my vote.
Paradox please!
Wow, that was really great. It shows how the world is messed up but still worthy and seriously puts those mages that get too hung up on the “Fallen” part of “Fallen world” as kinda idiots that want to “throw away the baby with the bathwater” as it were.
Ok, let’s hear about Mage Sight next.
I vote Mage sight.
Mage Sight!
I mean, Paradox is cool and all, but I’m looking forward to magic eyes.
Paradox.
Tough decision, but I’m willing to run with the forum spoilers on paradox for now. I really want to see how mage sight is shaping up!
Paradox, please.
I love the additional detail that’s being given to the Supernal and Abyssal influences. It makes them feel like they have much more presence in the setting.
I vote for Paradox. The built in counter measure mechanic for Werewolves (Kuruth) has been wonderfully redesigned and fleshed out for the Idigam Chronicles, I’m excited to see what this version of Paradox offers.
Paradox!
Paradox. Do any of those Abyssal manifestations themselves then threaten the Sleepers whose presence caused them?
Why shouldn’t they?
The Abyss hurts everyone, because it wants to hurt everything.
Yes – just seeing a spell damages a Sleeper’s soul. Full-blown Paradoxes don’t care who they chew up.
Mage Sight (again)!
Kult has always been one of my favorite modern occult games and it warms the cockles of my heart to see similar themes crop up in Mage.
Paradox, if you please.
Will there be any hints in the book on how Left-Handed mages use the Abyss to affect their magic?
Mage Sight
Mage Sight for me as well!
Oh, and Kudos to you Dave…you’ve made me give Mage the Awakening another chance. I’m a diehard Ascension fan, and was a bit “meh” about Awakening for awhile but you’ve made me break out the books again for a second look. I’m especially looking forward to the Fallen World Chronicle, and I’ll absolutely be picking it up(ok, I pick up everything Mage related anyway, Ascension or Awakening I have the complete run of both and I’m not about to stop now)
Paradox please
Hard choice, I’ll go with Paradox.
Again another hard choise : I pick Paradox
Two doctors.
Paradox please.
Mage Sight, please.
I feel like Mage Sight’ll give me more insight on how FWC will play.
I’d like some Paradox, please.
Paradox
P A R A D O X ! ! !
Vote: Mage Sight
Offered again after losing last week. It’s almost as if Dave B really wants us to choose it…
Just thinking – as the Masquerade is far from full proof, and there’s definite wiggle-room on Lunacy (for comparison’s sake) – Do Sleepers get a CHANCE to remember witnessing magic? If for no other reason than to facilitate stories of mysticism and miracle-working to enter mythology/rumors, and to on occasion provide headaches for the Guardians of the Veil?
I would imagine that any wiggle room on remembering is under the small chance of becoming a sleepwalker on exposure. It would be nice to have the chance made an explicit one, though.
I’m going to vote for Mage Sight here. I’m interested in the mechanics of the increased emphasis on symbols.
Nice. I like the bit about the Lie making Sleepers forget they even witnessed magic. Don’t remember if it was that way in the old book or not, but either way it’s cool. On a side note, in my group, we’ve decided (for simplicity’s sake) that the “exarchs” don’t exist. The Seers actually (and unknowingly) serve the God Machine.
As for the next post: Paradox.
Reincarnation!
Or, I suppose, Mage Sight, if Reincarnation isn’t an option.
Playing in a GMC Mage game tomorrow… can’t wait for the official rules!
As coincidence would have it, so am I. Probably my last game of running Mage before I have proper playtest drafts.
Any chance you could write up a small summary, say on par with these blogs you’re doing, of The Man Comes Around? We know you don’t have time to write up heavily detailed APs anymore – hell, I’m glad you don’t considering the jobs you’re getting now – but maybe a little something for the curious?
:3
Mage Sight.
Will Dissonance work more slowly than Disbelief? Sometimes it felt like Mages and changeling swapped places from cWoD.
With all the ways to lose Integrity, what kind of lifespan do Sleeper characters have?
Old Unraveling was a Resolve + Composure roll every ten minutes, degrading spell successes. It took *ages*.
Dissonance will depend on the Dispellation mechanics, which I haven’t had back from the team yet.
IIRC, it was cumulative, so even the mightiest non-ritual spell would be gone in less than an hour of exposure to a person with Resolve + Composure of 4.
Mage Sight. Gotta get a contrast.
A tactician said: know your enemy…
But we must know ourselves first!
So Mage Sight please! (next time, for sure: Paradox!)
So, i have to wonder. If you reach Integrity zero due to witnessing magic repeatedly… you Awake?
Evocative stuff, as always, Dave. Great job. Also,my vote is (again) for Mage Sight.
Nah. We’re leery of making Awakening a mechanical thing, because it’s so vanishingly rare and personal. I sometimes house-rule allowing people who are *starting* to Awaken to earn Arcane Experience, and trigger the Awakening when they have enough to buy Gnosis 1. That’s just a house rule, though – I don’t think anything like that will make it into the new corebook.
Can Proxima status be bought?
Haven’t had them back yet (it’s okay, they’re not late – anything I have had back yet is early!) All I dictated to the author was how Blessings and the Proximus Curse works in very general terms. Don’t know if being one will be a Merit or a Template.
For what it’s worth, I think they work better as a template.
I’m happy with your decision about not making Awakening something that could be triggered that way. It feel less special. But, have you though about any specific consecuences of that situation (reaching Integrity zero due to witnessing magic repeatedly)?
I vote for Mage Sight.
Mage Sight!
Paradox, definitely Paradox. 🙂
Awesome!
My vote goes for Paradox.
Mage sight!
Paradox for my vote.
Just realized the effects on witnessing magic also adds a horror element via a threat that even the most moral mages pose to “normal humans” (which in addition to being good for general WoD horror & MtA – also is thematically useful validation for “Witch Finders”, assuming you’re using the Awakened as the “witches” Hunters go after).
Oh, my vote is for Paradox.
Show me the Paradox!
Paradox
Paradox, please.
Finally, I’ve been waiting for this blog for ages! I just read your blog entries and I loved them (though I can’t say I’m surprised about that).
In the game I’m running we still haven’t made the transition to GMC-rules, so I won’t comment much on the mechanics side, but I must say I love the image of Mages as addicts, and the way the Exarchs and the Abyss have both now a hand in the Lie. But do the Exarchs think they’re using the Abyss, or are they somehow trying to keep it at bay? After all, Seers are forbidden to worship the Gate…
Really good stuff, and I’m really looking forward to know more.
Now let’s hear about Mage Sight! 😛
Finally, I’ve been waiting for this blog for ages! I just read your blog entries and I loved them (though I can’t say I’m surprised about that).
In the game I’m running we still haven’t made the transition to GMC-rules, so I won’t comment much on the mechanics side, but I must say I love the image of Mages as addicts, and the way the Exarchs and the Abyss have both now a hand in the Lie. But do the Exarchs think they’re using the Abyss, or are they somehow trying to keep it at bay? After all, Seers are forbidden from worshipping the Gate…
Really good stuff, and I’m really looking forward to know more.
Now let’s hear about Mage Sight! 😛
Paradox please
Mage Sight! ^^
Paradox please.
I like that Fallen World Chronicle makes an effort to explain why mortals in the World of Darkness act more like regular people from a horror movie than they do regular people in the real world, in regard to things like deliberately keeping themselves ignorant of the supernatural. Seers before this already had a duty to keep the Sleepers backwards and ignorant and convinced they can never change anything, but this spells out that they do it because Sleepers holding that attitude is an integral part of the Lie. And it’s their job to *maintain* the Lie, which simultaneously gives the Seers more agency in their gods’ grand design and makes the Pentacle side of things more hopeful.
If the Lie needs to be maintained by Mages who are still Down Here, then actual progress can be made undoing it by Mages who are still Down Here.
You don’t have to Ascend to fight the Exarchs.
Mage Sight
Too late! But you know how to pick a winner!