Moving right along on Lore of the Clans, we present the Ventrue, written by Alan Alexander. Here’s the link to the Google Doc:
Edit: Link removed now that open development is closed. Thank you!
Alan tried some new things, and as a result ran way over on wordcount. As such, I have to cut heavily, and there’s no room to add new material. As always, I want to know what you think. I’ll close comments on this one on Wednesday, September 10th. I’ll put a big note on the document when I close it so it’s clear.
A few things to keep in mind (some new this time, based on trends I’m seeing):
Discuss, but be polite (NEW): A few people are confusing “expressing concern” with “attacking the people working on this project.” If you are concerned about something, please express those concerns concretely — I do want to hear them. If you veer into insulting the writer or Onyx Path Publishing, I’ll ask you politely to stop (which, so far, is all I’ve needed to do). Anything after that, I’ll shut the conversation down and move on.
Keep calm and carry on: This is a preliminary draft. Things will likely change between this draft and the final book. If you see something weird or that you don’t agree with, don’t freak out. Just comment on the concerning area, and I’ll look into it. That’s exactly what this process is for.
Comments only (NEW): Everyone (except me) is restricted to comments only and suggestions. Please use comments only, and do not write your opinions into the draft text. Don’t resolve someone else’s comments or mine, either.
Substance over style: I’m focusing purely on the content, not punctuation or grammar. That kind of refinement of the material will happen in a later draft. Don’t worry too much about commenting on those concerns, unless such an error makes the material confusing to understand.
Cards close to my chest: Because I don’t want to bias the discussion, I’m keeping my thoughts on how I want to redline this chapter to myself. I’ll certainly answer questions and help steer conversation away from unproductive avenues, but in general I want to see what you think, not tell you what I think.
Comments
19 responses to “Power Pollutes: The Ventrue”
Google really needs to implement a different permission scheme (allowing Comments Only) as now, those to comment need permission to edit too..
I agree. Sadly, they seem to have lumped “suggestions” and “comments” together into one security band. 🙁
Narrative and information are good. Only thing that takes away “Suspension of Disbelief” at all is the FAQ narrative from an Anarch point-of-view. It makes little sense to me that anyone outside the Camarilla Ventrue would have knowledge of a secret like the Directorate, never mind have so much detail. It’s a minor quibble, for sure, but it would help me if the “identity” of said Narrator were to change to one that could credibly know the information imparted. As well, the Narrator’s identity seems to give the impression that the information imparted is one that any Anarch or even any PC outside Clan Ventrue could know the details, which I’m not sure blends with the whole “Conspiracy” notion that is presented in the opening story. That sort of inconsistency makes this entry a bit confusing, IMHO. The question it brings to mind is – Which is it to be? Is the Directorate a “secret Conspiracy” known only to a few, as per the opening narrative, or is it an “open secret” that some random Anarch seems to have clear information on? While I prefer the “secret Conspiracy” idea, as long as the Author clears up what feels like a large inconsistency, I guess it doesn’t matter which direction is chosen.
The fiction at the end clarifies that the faq was written by Bobby Weatherbottom, an 8th Generation childe of the late Prince Lodin of Chicago. It also clarifies that he’s actively working on behalf of the Directorate with the agenda of recruiting Ventrue antitribu within the Free States back into the Clan. Of course, all that might get cut for space.
It would be a shame if it was cutted. It’s a very interesting twist and give sense to that FAQ.
Love it, though I do wish the introductory story or perhaps in later side text would mention the multiple times [Ventrue] has been supposedly killed and diablerized.
A cheer for bringing back, or at least addressing, the Secret Masters narrative from the old Ventrue book. I was always disappointed that it pretty much disappeared in later interations of the clan and source books. I like the idea that the cult of the Daeva is a cabal of uber-paranoid Ventrue believing in grander plots than the orchestrations of the Directorate. In some ways, it harkens to the Requiem model of Ventrue falling into insanity as part fo their clan weakness. It also makes sense if this is an ingrained far for the clan: that they aren’t actually in-charge. Perhaps this is something to mention in the blurb? Maybe there’s another reason the clan dismisses these elders: the older Ventrue get the more they’re prone to crazies that rival that of the most paranoid of Malkavians. There’s a beautiful opportunity here, perhaps, for why the Malkavians are enjoying a renewed prominence in the Camarilla or perhaps patronage from the Ventrue. This paranoid cabal has begun to believe the fevered visions of the Malkavians because they, themselves, have had them too. And they’ve pulled strings to give the Lunatics more sway.
I always thought the True Black Hand were supposed to be the Secret Masters, since Andrew Greenburg wrote the 1st ed Ventrue book and developed Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand.
Sorry, but I did not like a bit the secret masters thing.
For me, Ventrue are serious dudes. They are mundane. They are attached to to power and to the real world.
The secret masters theory is strange, and I don’t see how it is related with the clan. I see one thing better for paranoid Nosferatu or other esoteric clans. In fact, I would see it as a Malkavian thing.
The fact that the secret masters thing does not appear to match with other elements of the World of Darkness (o with all of them at the same time) make things worst.
In this book at the beginning it appears that it is only recovering the story as the paranoia of a delusional minority. But the epilogues of each story suggest that it is a taboo inside the clan, but all important Ventrue believe in that and consider them a priority.
I’ll correct that. thank you!
Absolutely loved this! I was always already fond of the Ventrue, but this just made me wish there were more people willing to play them, because I just want a Ventrue centered chronicle!!! This was essential Vampire: The Masquerade, IMO.
Wow. I don’t have time to read at this publication rhythm. I suppose that it is not possible to slow down a bit.
Unfortunately, no. I’m behind the curve as it is. 🙁
The only Daeva I am thus far familiar with are the Clan from Requiem; where might I find information on the Masquerade’s Daeva?
There really isn’t any. In this context, the Daeva are the Ventrue’s boogie-men. It’s a placeholder name for the mysterious secret masters who really rule from behind the scenes. Ventrue who believe in the Daeva (whatever they believe the Daeva to be) seek power not for its own sake but to thwart the hidden puppeteers who may not actually exist. Sort of like the Strix if there had never been any canon proof that the Strix existed outside of Ventrue rumors.
This is, to my mind, by far the best Clan write up this far, and probably the best Ventrue write up ever.
What I feel it can benefit from is throwing in something often excluded like a mentioning of the Danava or the Saudi Ventrue line, or something new entirely.
While almost all good Revised Clanbooks explored the Clan in question around the world, the Ventrue one more or less only threw in a million Clan titles and positions that almost never comes into play.
Woot unique and more stuff for their antitribu. That’s awesome! Love the write up.
Great work with Antitribu Ventrue, perhaps, if it were not so focused to a sectarian nature, and further explored in see the Antitribu Ventrue as visible head (if there were such thing) of the Loyalists, would be more complete or give a little more background wealth (Jefferson Foster…). Is St. Gustav the same Priscus Gustav Mallenhaus of Montreal by night? Nice to include him. And would be nice read more about him in future books. Could be “The Blessing of St. Gustav” merit better a Ignobilis Ritae of Path of Honorable Accord followers? That sound great anyway.
Give more pages to the book. I see really difficult to remove some of this chapter. I had never drawn attention to these snobs stretched, but I liked it as written.
I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised at the nods towards Chicago By Night, 2nd Edition, which I consider one of the better By Night sourcebooks. I also am confused a little about the Daevas. I, too, had never heard of them in the VtM setting.
I do want to say that this writeup has changed my mind on the Ventrue. I never had been a fan of this clan. I may decide to play one at a later time.