Stretch Those Goals! One & Two, and One &… [Monday Meeting Notes]

Monday Meeting, News


Since the Scion 2e Kickstarter has been going so well, and has rocketing through its Stretch Goals like there’s no tomorrow, I thought it might be worth examining how we are looking at the Stretch Goals for this particular Kickstarter.

What are Stretch Goals? In a Kickstarter campaign, once the funding goal has been met, it has become a standard thing for the project creators to offer additional goals that offer rewards based on passing further pledge amount totals. So the KS was funded at $50,000, and then if more than $65,000 is pledged, the project creators promise to send all backers a pony.

Well, you laugh, but some crowd-funding campaigns have promised some pretty crazy things as Stretch Goal rewards. This is mostly because of inexperience and the sort of feedback loop creators get into with very successful KSs where they want to keep everybody engaged and having fun and talking about their KS to get even more people involved and pledging.

I went through that with a few of our early big, big KSs, but began to codify what I was willing to offer as Stretch Goal rewards based on what was actually possible for us to handle logistically, what we could accomplish based on the funding for it derived from the Stretch Goal amount, and what we could say we would do as a company when the reward might be something outside our ability to guarantee successfully delivering.

It’s the Stretch Goal funding amount that often throws people off. You see, if I have a Stretch Goal that takes us from $50,000 to $60,000 as the goal, we don’t get $10,000 of free money to play with, we get closer to $1,000. That’s partly because that amount is cut by KS and other fees, but also because our Kickstarters are for physical books and the majority of the pledges that make up the $10K we’re talking about are for physical things. Which require manufacturing and shipping and those costs are part of every Reward Tier amount and add-on and must be subtracted from out of the $10K as well.

So if the creator has expensive Stretch Goal rewards, with costs to create that aren’t covered by the amount of the Stretch Goal, they could have a very successful KS that actually loses them money. Which for Onyx Path would be bad because we can’t just write that off and we’d have to take the money from a different project or projects’ budgets.

For a core book, game line roll-out like the Scion 2e KS, I am willing to dance closer to that edge in order to create new projects for the line via the Stretch Goals. Fiction anthologies are a perennial favorite, specifically because they are, as a product line, unlikely to bring in big bucks until we get them into places like Amazon. But we can devote some of the “extra” cash from pledges to creating fiction stories via Stretch Goals and we get our costs covered. The fiction anthologies are then more like marketing; more like a way to spread the word about the line to folks who might not be able to play the RPG.



Illustration for Dark Ages Companion by Felipe Gaona

Illustration for Dark Ages Companion by Felipe Gaona


The other good thing about Fiction Anthologies is that we can break them up into smaller Stretch Goals in terms of the amount necessary to meet the next goal by concentrating on a couple of stories at a time or even one, rather than the whole book. Smaller goal amounts means we will achieve the Stretch Goals more quickly and that tends to keep people’s interest up. Particularly through the inevitable middle slow period almost every Kickstarter goes through.

For Scion 2e, we’re both doing that and also creating a Scion 2e Companion book section by section. Both for the rationale I mention above, and because putting extra sections into a separate book, rather than using the KS to add sections to the rulebooks themselves (like we have done before, and which was the whole point of the KS for Chronicles of Darkness: Dark Eras) so that the core rulebooks aren’t waiting for new material in order to be finished.

We also don’t want any of the Scion 2e main rulebooks to come in above 300 pages if we can help it, as big ol’ compendiums are awesome for long-time fans but can be brutal for newcomers to absorb.

And we think Scion 2e has the potential to appeal to a much wider audience than got the chance to enjoy Scion 1e back in the day.

One way we hope to reach that audience is through using the Stretch Goals to enable us to work on or fund different projects from the KS. Some will be relatable to the tabletop RPG directly, like the Scion 2e Companion, or Ready Made Characters, or the Jumpstart. And some will be opened up by Stretch Goals specifically as venues we wouldn’t ordinarily have the bandwidth or cash to get involved in, much like the Fiction Anthology I mention above.

Our latest announced Stretch Goal so far is a case-in-point: a Scion 2e Interactive Audio Drama to be created with our friends at Earplay. If you participated in our Pugmire KS, or attended the Grand Masquerade in NOLA this year, then you’ve heard of these guys already, but for everybody else, Earplay is a company pioneering what are basically audio “choose your own adventure” stories.


When I first heard of them, the idea sounded interesting but I had some difficulty anticipating huge success with the venue. I saw it as a potentially more engaging take on audio dramas. I was looking at it from through that lens, a story/drama lens, rather than remembering that all of the Earplay crew also have computer game backgrounds, including our old buddy Eddy Webb. I saw “choose your own adventure” as marketing speak to gamers rather than seeing it as the solo gaming platform those old “If you open the chest, turn to page 42” books actually were.

That’s why I think Earplay‘s interactive audio will work so well for our tabletop RPG audience. High quality audio dramas with voice acting and sound effects and music wrapped around a solo Scion 2e gaming experience means you get a very different focused way to keep having game fun in the Scion 2e setting even when your gaming group can’t get together. And that is an added value that complements our tabletop RPG books really nicely.



Dark Ages Companion illustration by Andrew Trabbold

Dark Ages Companion illustration by Andrew Trabbold


Finally, we always go into this knowing, and make a point of mentioning several times during any given KS, that not all Stretch Goal rewards are for all backers.

For us, that’s not a realistic goal anyway, as we don’t think we can create a KS where every single reward is exactly what everybody wants, so we’re not going to try and hit it. Rather, we try and set out the Stretch Goals in a way that a variety of different rewards come up in ways that should provide something for everybody.

We try to intersperse Companion sections with Anthology stories with new projects. Book projects with audio or app projects. Physical rewards with rewards that have us devoting time and effort working with another company, or opening up the chance to have translations or community created projects, or whatever. There’s a really wide range of possibilities and for us, every Kickstarter campaign is different.

Just like us.





The KS campaign for Scion 2nd Edition currently has 2438 backers and $199, 716 in pledges. We are thrilled with the response and are already using Stretch Goals to create a Scion 2e Companion, filled with additional pantheons, expanded or alternative rules, and other goodies, as well as a Scion 2e Fiction Anthology, and even more as noted above.






Looking for our Deluxe or Prestige Edition books? Here’s the link to the press release we put out about how Onyx Path is now selling through Indie Press Revolution:





With a howl, W20 Kinfolk: A Breed Apart‘s Advance PDF arrives for sale on DTRPG on Wednesday! Awooooo!



Awakening 2 Cover

NOW the long awaited opportunity to own Mage: the Awakening 2nd Edition as a physical book is at last at hand!

You are a mage, one of the Wise. You see, know, and explore what others can’t imagine, from the depths of the human soul to the hidden corners of reality. Armed with your spells, driven by an addiction to Mysteries, you delve into the secrets of the world. Knowledge has a price, and the dangers are many.

This book contains:

  • The complete guide to playing a mage in the Chronicles of Darkness.
  • Reimagined Paths, Orders, and powers to create your Awakened characters and their allies, including an updated version of the most comprehensive free-form magic system in gaming.
  • Five example settings across the world, from Los Angeles to Salamanca, each with a central Mystery.
  • A brand-new look at all the strange places of the Fallen World, from the Lower Depths to the Emanation Realms, and what mages might find within.



mage awakening condition numina cards

Now available from DriveThruRPG in PDF: Mage: The Awakening Condition and Numina Cards.

Part of the new Mage: The Awakening 2nd Edition rules, Conditions add an additional layer of consequence and reward to certain actions in the Chronicles of Darkness.

Various things within the course of a game can cause Conditions. These include exceptional successes, supernatural abilities, and really any situation where the Storyteller thinks they can be used to heighten the drama of a game.

Also available in this deck are brand new Numina cards featuring these rules from the Mage: The Awakening 2nd Edition rulebook for ease of reference at the table.




On sale NOW from DTRPG: the Promethean Dark Eras chapter A Handful of Dust in PDF and PoD versions!

The Great Depression and the black blizzards of the 1930s turned the American Midwest into a wasteland. For the better part of a decade, thousands of people experienced deprivation and alienation right alongside the Created. They also clung to the faint promise of hope, that the rains would come and restore the land.

This is a single chapter from the larger work, Chronicles of Darkness: Dark Eras.



Cavs of Mars

A Festival of Blades, the swashbuckling new Jumpstart advance PDF for Rose Bailey’s Cavaliers of Mars available on DTRPG!

Live, fight, and love on Mars, a world of red death and strange mystery, a world of savagery and romance.


  • A complete adventure set in one of dying Mars’ greatest remaining cities.
  • The innovative DEIMOS rules, for high-flying, swashbuckling adventure.
  • Four pre-generated player characters, ready to get into the heart of the action.



Miracles Cover

Behold the Miracles of the Solar Exalted! Originally a backer reward for the EX3 Kickstarter, but now so much more, with additional Charms written by the developers just for this book! For sale now at DTRPG in PDF and PoD versions!

This book contains over 80 new Solar Charms embodying a range of concepts and stories dreamed up by players of Exalted and meticulously crafted and balanced for inclusion at any and all tables.

Fire an arrow and let it become a waiting judgment upon the wicked. Unleash a sword stroke that can overwhelm the blade of Heaven itself. Train your loyal beast companion into an unstoppable colossus. Effortlessly seed the battlefield with inspiring words alongside arrows and blades. Empower your spirit familiar with the light of your anima. Tame a hurricane with your music. These miracles and more may be found within.





We’re honored to once again be a sponsor for the Save VS Fear convention again this year. This is a convention run by the Bodhana Group and the proceeds go towards their efforts in using tabletop RPGs as therapeutic tools for their clients and youth in the mid Pennsylvania area. Stop by if you can, I’m planning on being there at least one of the days and there are many Onyx Path gaming sessions planned including Pugmire.

Onyx Path will be at Mid Winter Con 2017 in January in the lovely city of Milwaukee. Come brave the cold wastes to game and cavort with us!




And now, the new project status updates!

DEVELOPMENT STATUS FROM ROLLICKING ROSE (projects in bold have changed status since last week):

First Draft (The first phase of a project that is about the work being done by writers, not dev prep)

  • Exalted 3rd Novel by Matt Forbeck (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • CtL fiction anthology (Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition)
  • BtP Building a Legend (Beast: the Primordial)
  • Trinity Continuum Core Rulebook (The Trinity Continuum)
  • Trinity Continuum: Aeon Rulebook (The Trinity Continuum)
  • M20 Gods and Monsters (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • BtP Player’s Guide
  • V20 Dark Ages Jumpstart (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • M20 Cookbook (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • M20 Book of the Fallen (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • VtM Beckett’s Jyhad Diary (Stretch Goal Content)
  • GtS Geist 2e core
  • VtR Half-Damned (Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition)
  • CtD C20 Anthology (Changeling: the Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition)



  • EX3 Jumpstart (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Scion: Origins (Scion 2nd Edition)
  • Scion: Hero (Scion 2nd Edition)


Second Draft

  • Arms of the Chosen (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • The Realm (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Dragon-Blooded (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Cavaliers of Mars
  • Wraith: the Oblivion 20th Anniversary Edition
  • VtR A Thousand Years of Night (Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition)



  • W20 Changing Ways (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition, featuring the Huntsmen Chronicle (Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition)
  • Signs of Sorcery (Mage: the Awakening Second Edition)
  • SL The Wise and the Wicked (5e – Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
  • BtP Mortal Remains (Beast: the Primordial)
  • SL Ring of Spiragos (Pathfinder – Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
  • Ring of Spiragos (5e – Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
  • SL Dagger of Spiragos (Pathfinder – Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
  • Dagger of Spiragos (5e– Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)



  • Pugmire Core Book


Post-Editing Development:

  • V20 Dark Ages Anthology (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Changeling: the Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition




  • Promethean: The Created 2nd Edition core book (Promethean: the Created 2nd Edition)




In Art Direction

  • Dark Eras Companion
  • Beckett’s Jyhad Diary
  • Mummy Novel
  • V20 Lore of the Bloodlines
  • SL Wise and Wicked Update
  • Prince’s Gambit 
  • Beast Conquering Heroes
  • C20 
  • M20 Book of Secrets
  • W20 Pentex Employee Indoctrination Handbook
  • V20 Dark Ages Companion
  • Pugmire


In Layout

  • Necropolis Rio
  • Scarred Lands Players Guide 5E
  • CofD Hurt Locker
  • V20 DA Tome of Secrets
  • Beast Condition Cards


  • V20 Endless Ages
  • Secrets of the Covenants
  • EX3 Charm Card PDFs implementing errata.


At Press

  • Dark Eras  Wrapping up printing, need to let backers know we need final addresses.
  • Ex 3 Scree Finished at the Printer.
  • Ex 3 core book – From RichT: manufacturing continues. Map is almost done being printed.
  • Dark Eras Screen – Finished at the Printer.
  • Mage the Awakening 2nd – PDF/PoD on sale!
  • Beast RMCs awaiting further errata.
  • CofD Tilt Cards – Waiting for card proofs
  • Kinfolk  – Advance PDF on sale Wednesday!
  • W20 Shattered Dreams – Out to backers and we’re waiting for errata.




TODAY’S REASON TO DRINK: Summer is over and Autumn is truly here. Halloween is coming. Gotta drink to get the ubiquitous pumpkin spice taste out of our mouths!

  65 comments for “Stretch Those Goals! One & Two, and One &… [Monday Meeting Notes]

  1. Jay
    October 3, 2016 at 11:32 pm

    Wooooooooo for the W20 Kinfolk book ! Do you have the link so that I can bookmark it to buy it when it comes out ?

    • Torakhan
      October 3, 2016 at 11:48 pm

      I’m excited for this too!
      I imagine it’ll be posted from the OPP or WWP Facebook page when the link goes kive at the very least.

      • richt
        October 4, 2016 at 5:09 pm

        Yes, the link will be posted on our Wednesday “This Stuff’s For Sale” blog and social media venues.

  2. Atavist
    October 3, 2016 at 11:49 pm

    Woo. I love the Fiction Andthologies and have even bought them when I wasn’t involved with the Kickstarter (or if they didn’t have one).

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:10 pm

      Glad they are up your alley! Not only are they good to read, they can also set a tone and intrigue readers with the setting they are based in.

  3. Rose
    October 4, 2016 at 12:18 am

    I am already in love with Shattered Dreams and can’t wait to see how epic C20 is!

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:11 pm

      Glad to hear it!

  4. Sprucestripedgoose
    October 4, 2016 at 12:23 am

    Has there been any movement on the three Exalted books in second draft or the Jumpstart in redlines? I know a lot can be happening behind the scenes without any visible changes in the MM notes, but it has been really quiet on all exalted fronts for a while now. I know at the beginning of the year the plan was to have more books out in 2016 but should we be looking more towards early 2017 and beyond at this point?

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:12 pm

      There has been, behind the scenes. I hope to be able to get all EX3 fans more detailed info in the weeks to come. Thanks!

  5. Andara
    October 4, 2016 at 1:32 am

    Is the work on Tribebook: Bunyip going to start soon-ish?
    I seriously fell in love with them after reading my Shattered Dreams. I’m a sucker for tragic stories 😉

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:12 pm

      We’re reviewing how TB:B needs to fit into our schedule. Stay tuned!

  6. Martin Trudeau
    October 4, 2016 at 1:37 am

    What the status about Déviants : the Renegades? I don’t see them amywhere…

    • Ian A. A. Watson
      October 4, 2016 at 8:13 am

      Projects don’t appear on the list until at least the first draft stage has begun.

      • Martin Trudeau
        October 4, 2016 at 5:02 pm

        OK then… When can be expecting some news, then? Is the “bible” ou layout done ?

        • richt
          October 4, 2016 at 5:14 pm

          The writers’ Bible is huge, I hear, and DaveB has outdone himself providing our talented writers with direction in that document.

  7. October 4, 2016 at 2:20 am

    Awesome post, Rich! You’ve mentioned during previous KS campaigns that just because a tier has a “dollar value” you don’t actually get to see that amount of money. I have to say that you certainly make the most of what you do get to play with. I’ve been following OPP KSs since Mummy and participated in almost all of them because your projects are just so great.

    To be honest, I was lukewarm about Earplay but after reading the details above I might take a closer look.

    I can’t decide which I want more: the KS to keep going so I can see what other goodies you have planned or if I want it to be over already so I can get to playing it. ;D

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:15 pm

      Thanks! Might as well let the KS play out, it’ll be a little while before the books get to a stage folks can have a complete Chronicle with.

  8. jason
    October 4, 2016 at 2:46 am

    I wonder what the price will be for the w20 kinfolk book..

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:16 pm

      One more day before you find out!

  9. Jason
    October 4, 2016 at 4:45 am

    I also have a question for you Rich, why was pure breed done in W20 like it was, as there is some confusion on this as to some it appears to be broken or something along those lines, though they did not specify how only that it appeared over powered (?)(I THINK was what one of them mentioned..)

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:16 pm

      Who is this “them” you are referencing? Do you have a more detailed description of how it is broken?

  10. MidnightBlue
    October 4, 2016 at 5:46 am

    I can completely understand and get behind the fact that not every stretch goal can appeal to every backer. I also applaud OP for testing the waters with new and original stretch goals.

    My only request is that more stretch goals were devoted to additional print products. I have received a TON of PDF stretch goals/add-ons from the OP KS projects I’ve backed and I’m thankful for all of them.

    However, common reality is that those PDFs collect digital dust as they are forgotten. Oh I COULD buy those PDF books as POD…at full price, despite the fact that I was in the project that helped add money to create those PDFs in the first place.

    I would rather get fewer new creation stretch goals in order to have some more stretch goals dedicated to funding the production/shipping of PDF stretch goals we’ve already created.

    Take the current Scion 2E KS. There’s a pretty hefty Companion and fiction anthology where the writing, art, & layout appear to already be funded. So how much more do we need to turn those into actual, physical books? Just production and shipping? $10,000…$15,000…$20,000? I honestly don’t know the cost and I’m not trying to assume…I’m really asking. But this would be a stretch goal for any OP RPG KS that I’d love to help reach.

    [quote]And we think Scion 2e has the potential to appeal to a much wider audience than got the chance to enjoy Scion 1e back in the day.[/quote]

    I have all the 1E books and loved what I read, though I never got to play/run the game. So maybe there were glitches that I’m unaware of. However, in my case, there wasn’t anything wrong with 1E that didn’t appeal to me. I simply never saw or heard of it until it was long gone. I never saw it on any of my game store shelves or book store shelves…even though both carried World of Darkness products.

    I still can’t tell you to this day what I was searching for on Ebay that pulled up Scion in the list…or why I clicked on it to check it out when that wasn’t what I was looking for. But I did…and then I did a little more search fu and saw what Scion was about. I was even luckier and found a nearly new Ebay auction for all three core books that I was able to win for the price of just one of the books new. And then of course I had to buy the rest of the collection.

    But my point is that I don’t see anything in 1E that would have kept me from wanting to buy the game…I just never saw it on my game store shelves to even consider buying. And that is the case with most of OP’s products I’m afraid. If I didn’t get lucky and stumble across the Mummy KS, and in turn get updates about future OP KS, I likely would never have known about and been able to purchase Mummy, Demon, Wraith, Dark Eras, etc. because if they aren’t on the book store shelves, I don’t see them to buy them.

    Very glad that the Scion 2E KS is doing so well!

    I hope Aberrant will also. We played the HECK out of Aberrant back in the day.

    • welverin
      October 4, 2016 at 8:48 am

      Rich has talked multiple times about how even now that one of OPP’s problems is people not knowing they exist and are continuing to support these properties.

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:29 pm

      So, let me comment on your second point first: Scion 1e was the product that convinced me that tabletop RPG sales channels were fundamentally broken. Because it was a new game, distribution initially refused to order what we knew from past experience would be the amount needed. It was only after we put a copy of Scion: Hero in every Retailer bag at the GAMA trade show and those retailers then pestered their distributors that we got anywhere near the number of pre-orders that Scion needed and deserved. And then with Demigod, the numbers reverted to their previous estimates because nobody was poking the distributors to see that this was that rarity in the market then, a successful brand new game.

      So you had trouble finding, and we had trouble getting it out to you. But not through lack of trying. And I never want anyone to be unable to get one of our books if they are interested again, so we have DTRPG. A 24/7 virtual bookshelf.

      It is awesome that you still have a game or book store you go to for your gaming fun, but please understand that for most of our community, that is nowhere near as common as it once was.

      As for PoDs of Stretch Goal rewards: if I could find a way to do that that didn’t risk a logistic nightmare or financial damage to the success of the Kickstarter, then I would consider such rewards. But right now, the best we can do with how Print on Demand and Kickstarter are set up is to provide folks with discount coupons for PoDs with the main traditionally printed books.

      • MidnightBlue
        October 4, 2016 at 8:18 pm

        I hear ya, Rich. I definitely wasn’t saying that you all didn’t try to get it to my game store’s distribution network…but that’s definitely why I didn’t buy Scion 1E when if first came out.

        I am definitely fortunate to have a few game stores in the vicinity…and one within 3 miles of me. Unfortunately the cons, where all these things are advertised, are not convenient for my attendance. =(

        Oh well, I have enough trouble keeping up with all of the products that I DO see at my game store, can hold in my hands, and preview. Probably a minor blessing that a few of the products I’d love slip by my, and my wallet’s, notice.


        • richt
          October 4, 2016 at 8:47 pm

          Oh yeah, your point about Scion 1e just opened the door to tell that formative moment anecdote that really does relate to our slow build towards how we work with the distribution system now. I didn’t think you were being negative about that issue.

          • MidnightBlue
            October 5, 2016 at 9:35 am


            Electronic communication needs to do better at showing emotion & intent. Then I’d be less self-conscious about offending someone.

            Of course then the computers will use that emotion to take over the world…


      • Victor J Kinzer
        October 5, 2016 at 9:27 am

        When I first found out about Onyx Path I was honestly pretty frustrated about these same issues. I’ve since heard enough stories about how difficult distributors were to deal with (The story about why Bunk cards were a thing also comes to mind speaking of all the Changeling love in these comments). So it makes more sense to me now. I am really glad you are starting to push into traditional printing with Pugmire and at least one attempted run of Scion.

        To pair your anecdote with one from my local gaming store I moved to Chicago about 5 years ago and I’m only a couple El stops from Chicagoland Dice Dojo, which is a HUGE game store. When I moved here they had some D&D, and a whole bunch of used RPGs. They also had a few very low impact games like Fiasco but that was about it. About a year, maybe a year and a half ago they started reorganizing the store, and they’ve done it two or three times since then. They now have a huge RPG section. It includes a bunch of stuff from Monte Cook Games, a much wider swath of D&D than they used to have, and a barrage of indie titles that I know nothing about but look phenomenally cool. There is still that big section of used White Wolf stuff spanning all editions, and the fact that they devote as much shelf space to those old titles as they do is telling about how much pull these properties still have.

        Something has shifted in the last couple years in terms of RPGs. I’m really not sure what it is, but it’s significant and awesome. I really hope that you have a lot of success with Pugmire and Scion, and are able to start moving more of your texts into the traditional game pipeline again.

        I started buying White Wolf games as a wide eyed 15 year old, and I’ve often said the only thing that I find frustrating about the current WoD book model is it’s entirely aimed at the gamer I am today, not the gamer I was when I started playing. If I were a 15 year old kid today I would have no in to the World of Darkness, and even if I somehow magically found out it existed it would be much more difficult for me to afford the books being published and to order them through Drive Thru as opposed to at my local Borders. (Which is where I bought a lot of my games as a kid). I know with inflation the core books on basic printing aren’t that much more than the old core books, but the Borders gift card is a POWERFUL Syndicate wonder and I used it with abandon in high school, and it wouldn’t work on DTRPG.

        I don’t know that I’m asking for anything in particular with my rambling. Just that I am really glad you’re moving into traditional channels again, albeit tentatively, and that you’re printing more modest core texts. I sincerely hope to see a future where I feel like 15 year old me has the kind of access to these properties that I had back in the day.

        • richt
          October 5, 2016 at 4:32 pm

          Absolutely. We’re going to keep exploring how we can best take the excitement from the existing community that has come about by our focusing on big books designed to celebrate our shared years/decades with the game lines, and add to that with new players brought in by making the sorts of projects that make sense to them and the way they access their fun. I’m thinking that while there are (and hopefully will always be) 15 year olds that love books and bookstores, there another group of potential fans of our worlds that are more likely to encounter and enjoy them if their introduction happens via an Actual Play vid, or a concise entry level Jumpstart in multiple medias, or similar formats, that then propel them to getting the books.

          • Victor Kinzer
            October 5, 2016 at 11:03 pm


      • October 5, 2016 at 6:15 pm

        I’m trying to think what, other than the impending financial crash, can have made distributors in 2007 hear the words “new White Wolf game” and not think “we need to order the hell out of this”? Were the initial sales on CofD games really that dismal and I was just insulated from them by the fact I was doing most of my buying online? (As I recall, I got each of the first three Scion 1E books from a different one of the Big Three online bookstores.)

        On the subject of stretch goals, I personally would rather have a Rick Riordan team-up than the Earplay drama, but if the legalities don’t permit it, I’ll enjoy my beer just fine without egg in.

        • richt
          October 5, 2016 at 8:51 pm

          Quite the opposite, in terms of sales, but nothing like card games, and board games were ramping up. Card games were high volume, low cost items that had massive reorders, and board games were high price items that made more money for distributors with less trouble than those pesky books which were coming out a dozen a week from various companies. RPG books were stuck in the middle as lower profit, fewer individual sales, more confusing titles, etc. It didn’t matter who we were, we made RPG books.

  11. Yonko
    October 4, 2016 at 8:14 am

    When I take a look in the “almost done” sections it feels like there was some kind of bottle neck that needed solving. It’s nice to see 🙂

    Also, W20 Changing Ways has been locked in “Development” for quite some time now. Did unexpected problems arise?

    • welverin
      October 4, 2016 at 8:50 am

      The sale of White Wolf did cause delays (in approvals at least, if nothing else), I forget if they mentioned anything else along the way.

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:31 pm

      Stew Wilson’s time is severely limited right now, so we can get him to review proofs of W20 projects or we can get him to spend time on Changing Ways, but not both.

  12. Yig
    October 4, 2016 at 9:03 am

    Still trying to learn the order of all the steps of development above so I don’t have to ask these questions.

    Any wide time frame idea on when Hurt Locker will be available as pdf? From what I’ve gathered reading questions here I suspect it’s in the final stage before it can be made available without an index. Is this correct?

    • chaney_insaney
      October 4, 2016 at 9:50 am

      Hurt Locker is still in layout… hasn’t even gotten to the proofing phase yet.

      • Yig
        October 4, 2016 at 10:34 am

        My bad. I was thinking Proofing was post pdf but pre PoD.

        • richt
          October 4, 2016 at 5:33 pm

          The Mirthful One is looking at the layout proof stage as Proofing, as per the weekly updates list. In reality, there are several stages where books could be seen as being proofed or in proofing, and one of them is certainly between the PDF and PoD creation stages.

          • Yig
            October 4, 2016 at 10:39 pm

            Thanks for the info. Also, not sure where id ask so I guess I’ll ask here. Does anyone know if vehicles are getting more love in Hurt Locker? I know its not intended to replace any armory books but the sections on different vehicles were pretty helpful sometimes.

  13. Unsilent Majority
    October 4, 2016 at 10:19 am

    Kinfolk! YES!

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:33 pm


  14. Max Deltree
    October 4, 2016 at 11:02 am

    Woo-hoo!! Secrets of the Covenants in proofing! Soon… :[˜˜

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:35 pm


  15. Tim Flannigan
    October 4, 2016 at 4:24 pm

    WOOT! C20 gets closer to my grasping claws!

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:34 pm

      Are you a Pooka with the claws and all?

      • Chazz
        October 4, 2016 at 5:40 pm

        If he were the statement would be more like: “I’m not at all interested in getting that book into my claws. In fact, the longer the better!”

        And we know he’s not a Sluagh due to the loud “WOOT”.

        • Victor J Kinzer
          October 5, 2016 at 9:13 am


  16. Aaron Scott
    October 4, 2016 at 5:29 pm

    So how soon might backers get to see C20?

    • richt
      October 4, 2016 at 5:35 pm

      We don’t give estimates, please watch the progress of C20 on these weekly updates. Thanks!

  17. Aaron Scott
    October 4, 2016 at 5:49 pm

    Sorry, I should have been less direct. I was wondering, more specifically, how many more steps before it will roll out to backers.

  18. Meme
    October 4, 2016 at 6:30 pm

    Why oh why is there never a link to the KS from here?

  19. Bill
    October 4, 2016 at 11:21 pm

    Have there been any photo previews for how the Deluxe or Orichalcum Edition Ex3 corebooks look? I’d love to see how they look while we wait for manufacturing to finish.

    • richt
      October 5, 2016 at 4:37 pm

      There have not. I have samples of both, but they are just the covers, no gilded interior pages, or bookmarks, etc. Previous responses to previews of the stages of creation have, shall we say, been beyond the bounds of legitimate feedback, so I’m not going to preview what I have until I have samples that are pretty much exactly what the books will look like.

  20. jason
    October 5, 2016 at 12:22 am

    Rich, they were some RPG friends of mine who played it and had an issue with how pure breed works in W20. They said it was over powered and would need an in game ruling to make it work. Though they did not specify what im afraid. I will try to get some more information from them when I see them.

    • richt
      October 5, 2016 at 4:34 pm

      OK, cool. Love to hear what the issue is and if it is their interpretation of the text, or the text itself that is the issue. It may be intended and they just don’t like it that way. Let me know-

  21. wonderandawe
    October 5, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    Is there going to be an announcement of which writers got into the C20 Anthology?

    • richt
      October 5, 2016 at 4:24 pm

      I’ll ask Black Hat Matt about that.

  22. Victor J Kinzer
    October 5, 2016 at 2:58 pm

    So I had a question about the Current Projects page. I know you’ve said you don’t release estimates on product release timeline, but the listing of what you’re aiming to have released each quarter has been really nice to have. It’s not totally accurate, and that’s cool. I was wondering if you were going to add new quarters to that listing at some point since we’re down to the last quarter you have listed.

    • richt
      October 5, 2016 at 4:23 pm

      Yes, we have a meeting to have about the upcoming projects and then we’ll get that topped off.

      • Victor Kinzer
        October 5, 2016 at 11:05 pm

        Awesome. I have really appreciated the way the current project page has been maintained this year.

  23. jason
    October 5, 2016 at 8:44 pm

    Rich !!!! The artwork for W20 !! It’s some of it is just beautiful !!!! The artists outdid themselves !

    • richt
      October 5, 2016 at 8:52 pm

      For W20 Kinfolk? I’ll pass that on to Mirthful Mike!

  24. Frank
    October 7, 2016 at 7:36 am

    Yay for Secrets of the Covenants advancing bracket! I’ve been checking every Monday notes for a year in anticipation! <3

Comments are closed.