Structure and Moon-Signs

The results are in! This week, by a vote of 53 to 37, it’s Auspices.

But first, a digression.

Some people have remarked how these development blogs feel different to the Blood & Smoke devblogs. I agree. Part of that is a matter of space — while we could preview each Discipline for Blood & Smoke and see how people reacted to individual changes, the sheer volume of Gifts and Facets makes that untenable for Werewolf. Partly, it’s also because quite a lot of the changes we’re making to Werewolf are on a more structural level. I’m listening to feedback[1] but as I’m presenting structural parts rather than individual elements, it’s more to tune how we do things.

Take tribes, for example. High-level overviews of what we’re changing with tribe enabled me to see people’s responses and what we need to play up — that we’re adding a chosen prey rather than changing the tribe entirely, and that the Storm Lords and Hunters in Darkness selection of prey needs a bit more explanation than the other tribes. Rather than spending five weeks going over each tribe and how they work, I wanted to show the higher-level change and see how people reacted to that.

Also, in part, it’s because so much of what I’ve mapped out is at the structural level. While I’m involved with what the team I’ve assembled is doing, they’re filling in the details — what Gifts and Facets do what, or the precise details of each level of Primal Urge and Harmony. So as I’ve only just got their drafts in, I’ve got less of the nuts and bolts that I can share and ask for feedback on. That does mean that when I blog about something like Gifts, Chris can come along and answer questions just as well as I can. :)

On to the moon-signs!

A character’s Auspice determines the sacred role that the moon chose for her: Stalker, Spirit Master, Walker Between, Visionary, or Warrior. Because it’s such a big part of the character, we’re giving Auspice a more prominent part in the book. When you’re making a werewolf — whether you’re applying a supernatural template to a human character, or you’re new to Forsaken and have cracked open the Idigam Chronicle for the first time — you have two major choices that define your werewolf. Tribe and Auspice. So they’re in at the front of the book.

Auspice defines a werewolf’s role among the people as a reflection of how she hunts. The Auspice descriptions in the Idigam Chronicle cover each Auspice both in Uratha society and in the hunt. We’re clarifying, not replacing.

  • Irraka hunt their prey without being seen, striking from the shadows. In a pack, the Irraka makes sure that the kill happens, even if she doesn’t strike the final blow — hamstringing her prey, or leaving them open to another werewolf’s claws. On her own, she remains hidden and builds every advantage she can find, then goes for the kill in a single moment of blinding violence.
  • Ithaeur know that they are never alone. His knowledge and connections in the spirit world have obvious utility in the hisil. When hunting in the material world, those spirits give him a thousand ephemeral eyes eyes to track his prey, a thousand hands that reach out to Urge or Claim for just a moment before the werewolf’s teeth sink in.
  • Elodoth have one foot in light and one in shadow. As such, they foster connections in both worlds. She makes deals with anything, from spirits of rock and toxic waste to the cops who watch the corner. She sits in the middle of a network of connections and favors, pulling on — or breaking — strings that make her prey’s life hell before he even knows the werewolf is after him.
  • Cahalith have a blessing from Luna. The moon comes to their dreams and gives visions of the hunt. As such, a Cahalith knows the story of the hunt before it starts, and it’s then his role to make the hunt memorable. As such, he leaves subtlety to other packmates. The Cahalith howls so his prey can hear, bursts through walls, and leaves his prey in no doubt of what is coming for her.
  • Rahu are the blade of the guillotine. Other werewolves prime the hunt, weaken and harry their prey, but it’s the Rahu who kills the prey. Sometimes, it’s an execution. Sometimes, it’s a drawn-out fight. Many Rahu prefer the fight. The full moon casts many things into light and shadow. The fight — the kill — is her role in the hunt. That’s all a Rahu needs to know.

We’ve beefed up many of the Auspice abilities, turning them into once-per-chapter abilities that evoke the werewolf’s moon-given role. The Elodoth’s ability, for example can either cause or end kuruth — but since she can only use it once per chapter she’d better be very sure that she can deal with the consequences.

Finally, an Auspice gives a werewolf a Hunter’s Aspect. This is something that gives a werewolf away to other werewolves, and that clashes with the predatory aura of a vampire. When a werewolf takes the lead on a siskur-dah, her Hunter’s Aspect comes to the fore and her prey knows exactly what kind of monster is coming for it.

I could go on to try to enumerate all the small things, but I think it’s better if I just show it off. So here’s the first draft of the Cahalith write-up to give you more of a sense of things.

I don’t know if it’s physically possible for me to end this post without using Creedence Clearwater Revival. Even if it is, I don’t want to try. Bad things might happen. Instead, have this week’s question: Shapeshifting or Kuruth?


  1. And sorry for not responding more to last week’s entry. I’ve been poring over redlines. I always try to get caught up while counting the votes. I am reading everything, including the double-posts. ;)  ↩

  114 comments for “Structure and Moon-Signs

  1. Beachfox
    April 25, 2014 at 7:32 pm

    My vote is for Kuruth, curious how that’ll roll.

  2. Arcane
    April 25, 2014 at 7:32 pm

    AH, DAMNIT STEW! I’M GONNA LOSE THIS WEEK! Kuruth.

    I like the sharpening of Auspices you did though.

    • Stew
      April 25, 2014 at 7:44 pm

      Look at it this way: if it’s kuruth, you get kuruth. Which is a win. If it’s shapeshifting, I have a great reason to link Shakira. Which is a win. ;)

      • Arcane
        April 25, 2014 at 7:53 pm

        Shakira and shapeshifting?

        Okay, it’s a win-win.

      • Rosicrucian
        April 26, 2014 at 11:37 am

        “Nocturnal creatures are not so prudent: the moon’s my teacher, and I’m her student.”

  3. PenDragon
    April 25, 2014 at 7:36 pm

    Good lord decisions. Gonna have to go with Shapeshifting.

  4. Octavo
    April 25, 2014 at 7:40 pm

    Cool stuff. I definitely like the Hunter’s Aspect quite a bit.

    I vote Shapeshifting.

  5. Afro Luigi
    April 25, 2014 at 7:45 pm

    Hmmmmm tough call on the votes… I’m going to go with Kuruth!

    Two Questions:

    Hunters Aspect: If it’s like a Vampire’s Predatory Aura I’m assuming it’s going to be an Attribute+Primal Urge roll, but will each Auspice have a different Attribute to roll or is it all off Strength?

    Also Faces: Is this the new term for Aspects (From Signs of the Moon)? I checked and Dreamer, Lore-Keeper, and War-howler are all the names of specific Aspects from that book.

    • Stew
      April 25, 2014 at 8:27 pm

      1) I can’t answer that just now.

      2) Kinda. We re-used Aspects for the Hunter’s Aspect; Faces have their root in the Signs of the Moon Aspects but without the additional abilities.

      • Afro Luigi
        April 25, 2014 at 8:36 pm

        1) No problem

        2) I guess that makes sense what with the Auspice Benefits being beefed up the way they are. And looking at the stuff from Signs of the Moon again, if my group really wanted to I guess we could still use the extra abilities without much (if any) work.

        I have to say all the stuff being teased is making me really interesting in Werewolf, which previously I’ve never been into. If this trend keeps up I’ll be adding The Idigam Chronicle to the list of books I’m getting. Even if it rarely leaves my shelf. :P

  6. Leliel
    April 25, 2014 at 7:50 pm

    I’ll go with Kuruth.

    And I’m going to take a wild guess and say many a Cahalith’s favorite song is “For Those About To Rock.”

    • Leliel
      April 25, 2014 at 9:19 pm

      On second thought, I’ll join the shapeshifting bandwag…er, band car..bus…

      The band’s vehicle.

  7. April 25, 2014 at 7:51 pm

    Yay, favorite Auspcie got covered.

    I like the structure for sharpening the Auspices, and the once-per-chapter abilities, though I hope they are equally good. I also think that the structure of previews has been good, as I believe Werewolf is a great setting that is deeply flawed on some architectural level and it’s good to see that being worked on.

    On the poll, I’m going with shapeshifting.

    And stuff.

  8. Scarbringer
    April 25, 2014 at 7:51 pm

    Beautiful work.

    SHAPESHIFTING ABSOLUTELY

  9. ChrisF
    April 25, 2014 at 7:52 pm

    I like this. I’m curious as to the Hunter’s Aspect, does this mean that, unlike Vampires who have three aspects of the beast to choose from, Werewolves have one of five base don auspice and ONLY that one?

    I vote for shapeshifting.

    • Stew
      April 25, 2014 at 8:29 pm

      Kinda, but remember that it’s not a Werewolf term for Predatory Aura — it’s something else that fills a similar niche.

      • ChrisF
        April 26, 2014 at 6:31 pm

        Alright, that makes sense.

  10. Lionhjart
    April 25, 2014 at 7:54 pm

    shapeshifting.

    I absolutely want to know something about the forms.
    We want a real WAR form to hunt everything down

  11. Patrick Regan
    April 25, 2014 at 7:55 pm

    Interesting — I definitely like the expansion that we’ve gotten. I remember in the original core book, each Auspice had, like, a paragraph dedicated to them at most which didn’t give too much of an idea.

    I like the idea of Gibbous Moons being almost slaves to their stories, to destiny — there’s an interesting angle to be played with, almost Changeling-y in a way. I will say they’ve never particularly clicked with me, though, so this one didn’t quite pump me up in the same way the others did.

    Which is kind of weird now that I think about it because I’m pretty sure you could very much describe me as a Cahalith – I’m a writer and I’m also Mr. pump everyone up in my group of friends. Go figure.

    I think also I’m super curious to see the moon gifts for them though before I can really wrap my head around them. The Moon gifts seem like such an integral part of groking the Auspices now. I haven’t even SEEN the write-ups for Half-Moon and New Moon and yet I feel like I already get them because of the gift list.

    Oh! And Shapeshifting. Definitely shapeshifting.

  12. Yossarian
    April 25, 2014 at 7:58 pm

    What a great post. Auspices could easily be as iconic as Clans…

    The little I’ve read of the old core, they felt underrepresented. Werewolf is becoming more and more appealing to me.

    Anyway…Shapeshifting!!

  13. Charlaquin
    April 25, 2014 at 8:10 pm

    Damn, that writeup made me want to play a Cahalith, and I’ve never been a huge fan of them. Nice!

    That may be the hardest choice you could have given me, between the two most iconic parts of werewolf fiction. How can I chose between shapeshifting and loss of control, when they’re the two things werewolf is ABOUT to me? I guess I’ll have to vote for Forms, but for once I don’t have a real preference and will be happy no matter the result.

  14. Seidmadr
    April 25, 2014 at 8:12 pm

    Shapeshiftiing! That’s what I’ve been mostly looking forward to since I saw you were going to do open development!

    While the Death Rage is interesting in itself, I think I want to see the forms before it, so it’ll be easier to understand.

    Or, possibly, you just re-did the whole Kuruth system, I suppose, and this pre-knowledge is wasted. Either way, I want the shapes first!

  15. Eric Christian Berg
    April 25, 2014 at 8:13 pm

    My vote is for shapeshifting.

  16. Eric_C
    April 25, 2014 at 8:22 pm

    Shapeshifting

    Sidenote – Well the new Forsaken make the old books redundant and obsolete? I love the WtF line and hate to feel that those books no longer matter.

    • Stew
      April 25, 2014 at 8:33 pm

      No. We’ve a *lot* of good books out for Forsaken — I think it’s one of our strongest lines as a whole. I would say that, my name’s on plenty of them. ;)

      Despite the structural changes, it should be pretty straightforward to use your existing Forsaken books with the Idigam Chronicle. In the future, we may get to a point where we have some overlap, but we’re not going to be there for a good few years yet.

      • Seidmadr
        April 28, 2014 at 2:28 am

        Hey, Stew… One of the things I like the most from the Werewolf books has been the Aspects from Signs of the Moon. As it looks now, will it require much work to fit them into the post Idigam games of Werewolf?

  17. Dessembrae
    April 25, 2014 at 8:25 pm

    For once I don’t really have anything to say at this point in time. However, I promised that if Shapeshifting ever presented itself as an option I would vote for it.

    SHAPESHIFTING!!! GO GO GADGET CAPS LOCK!

  18. Monghani
    April 25, 2014 at 8:46 pm

    Just enough of a tease to leave us wanting more. I dig it! I very much look forward to merits on expanding Faces and Auspice Abilities. Seeing how merits are the realm of permanent things as was said before.

    Shapeshifting, gotta see what those forms are like!

  19. Atavist
    April 25, 2014 at 8:51 pm

    Never thought I’d like the Cahalith but there you go.
    There’s an interesting sort of Slasher Legend/Changeling Autumn Court Talecrafting thing going on. I like the idea that they prey on the fears of the, well, prey. I thought the sort of envy they got going for the Rahu was a really nice touch, too, built-in conflicts like that are nice to have in the book, even if you ignore them it gives you an aspect of your character (why don’t they mind the spotlight being on the rahu?)

    I’ll vote for shapechanging.

  20. John B
    April 25, 2014 at 8:58 pm

    First, I vote to see shape-shifting.

    Second, the sentence about Ithauer using spirits to temporarily claim or urge their prey sounds fantastic. I’m really interested to see the Crescent Moon gifts more.

  21. Satchel
    April 25, 2014 at 9:10 pm

    Shapeshifting.

  22. Raymer
    April 25, 2014 at 9:56 pm

    Shape shifting, please. Loving the “focus”. For some reason the Cahalith’s description as being over the top compared to the others was great.

    regards,
    Raymer

  23. Ramiro
    April 25, 2014 at 10:00 pm

    Awesome stuff!! shapeshifting please!!

  24. Wolf
    April 25, 2014 at 10:12 pm

    Realy nice stuff. Loses the Elodoth his “judge” position? Sounds to me so

    Shapeshifting.

  25. shkspr1048
    April 25, 2014 at 10:27 pm

    First, I vote kuruth.

    Second, having covered Tribes and Auspices, will we see the various Not-Tribes (The Pure, Ghost Wolves, Bale Hounds, and whatever else might be stored away)?

    Also, I understand that the Idigam are, naturally, the main Big Bad of this book, but will the Maeljin be covered, even if just in passing?

    • Alessandro V.
      April 26, 2014 at 12:46 am

      I have a question, i don’t know if it’s already been said but the Pure will be present in some way in the Idigam Chronicle?
      p.s.
      i vote Shapeshifting

      • Stew
        April 26, 2014 at 8:30 am

        Yes, but not described with as much detail as the Forsaken. They’ve got a similar level of detail to the Forsaken core.

    • DaveB
      April 26, 2014 at 4:17 am

      Unless Stew cuts them, I explain what the Maeljin are when describing Wounds in the book’s guide to the Shadow.

      • Eolirin
        April 26, 2014 at 12:02 pm

        Since it’s probably too minor a thing for a proper spoiler, how are you dealing with the lack of a fixed vice list for them?

        • Innes
          April 26, 2014 at 8:07 pm

          I don’t think Stew has mentioned one way or another whether the Vice list is fixed or not. Either way, it’s not like the Maeljin exactly matched the old Vice list, with Pseulak and Thurifuge representing Deception and Violence.

  26. NeoTiamat
    April 25, 2014 at 10:46 pm

    Shapeshifting.

  27. Ephsy
    April 25, 2014 at 11:16 pm

    Shapeshifting, I’m simply gonna presume you go fucking Gauru while in Kuruth, and I’d rather see the other forms as well.

  28. April 25, 2014 at 11:23 pm

    I like them. A lot.

    Although I’d like too that the aspect benefits of Signs of the Moon were included in the current Faces.

    My vote for Shapeshifting.

    • Ephsy
      April 26, 2014 at 3:51 pm

      I’m just gonna include them anyway.

  29. Devil Bunny
    April 25, 2014 at 11:24 pm

    Shapeshifting!!!

  30. NateD
    April 25, 2014 at 11:42 pm

    Excellent! I’m digging the interesting direction for Cahalith, whom I never really “clicked with” until now.

    Also: C’mon KURUTH! C’mon!

  31. HuckleberryNorwood
    April 25, 2014 at 11:48 pm

    Your reveal did not dissapoint, Stew. I’m thrilled at the descriptions of the auspices and I’m so happy you previewed the Cahalith just for me! Aren’t you sweet? :P

    Cahalith has always been my favorite auspice. The prophetic dreamer is such an evocative archetype for me. And now they TRULY seek Glory, rather than feeling more like they were concerned with other people’s past glories (at least that’s how it seemed at times in W:tF). Now they ARE Glory and I cannot wait to play one!

  32. HuckleberryNorwood
    April 25, 2014 at 11:50 pm

    Sorry for the double post, I forgot to vote!

    Shapeshifting, please. Hard choice but, we’ll go with that.

  33. Nick W
    April 26, 2014 at 12:43 am

    Thanks for the continued teasers! Shapeshifting, please.

  34. Two-Bears-High-Fiving
    April 26, 2014 at 12:48 am

    Neat! I love the different ways they operate in tribes. I do question their obsession with glory through combat. Isn’t there a glorious story to be told in a blood-soaked spirit ritual that strikes the hunted down with bolts of lightning? Aren’t stories where the prey slowly realize they not alone and it’s already too late worth telling? They still know they’re place in the story, it’s just less action, more thriller.

    Also, I know a lot of people don’t have any problem with this, but is there going to be any effort to differentiate between Ithaeur and Bone Shadows? I was never a fan of overlapping splats, like ventrue/invictus. If not, nbd. Still looks great.

  35. Roads
    April 26, 2014 at 1:25 am

    I’m mildly surprised Auspice won out, I’m pretty sure it was trailing Monday, which was the last time I checked.

    Ahem, now to my impression.

    *Manic tittering giggle*

    Not sure what to actually say, looks delightful, and emphasis all the parts I always liked. And Auspices where always second only to the Clan anyways.

    And throw another bone on the Kuruth pile, you were teasing a few bits a bit too keenly today.

  36. Nicias
    April 26, 2014 at 1:35 am

    Good to know one of my favorite tactics for spying and controlling territory isn’t entirely heretical. Urge all the things.

    (This also makes Animal Ken and Medicine make a bit more sense as auspice skills, assuming that didn’t change for Ithaeur.)

    Kuruth please!

  37. Gate
    April 26, 2014 at 2:13 am

    After reading the bit on the Cahaliths, I couldn’t help but think of Leeroy Jenkins, and I don’t even play WoW.
    Shapeshifting gets my vote.

  38. Brian Goubeaux
    April 26, 2014 at 2:28 am

    My vote is abstaining for a pick again. Both are nice and I’m sure that we’ll get to see the other topic when the Idigram Chronicle goes to print anyway.

    Other than that, the role of the Cahalith seem to resemble a role that the Ragabash have in Apocalypse. The Cahalith try to keep everyone together despite adversity and the Ragabash try to keep everyone from unintentially suiciding due to bad planning and poor morale.

    Somehow, I hope that the game-lines past Mage get their own updates for the God-Machine rules, or else I’m going to think that White Wolf believes that those game-lines of the World of Darkness are now obselete, leaving Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Demon, and Hunter as the only true game-lines of the system.

    Here’s hoping for God-Machine updates for the rest of them.

  39. Christian A
    April 26, 2014 at 2:40 am

    Kuruth, please, but only if it’s no longer a binary “you’re either death raging or not” thing.

    • Stew
      April 26, 2014 at 3:27 am

      It’s not a binary thing.

      • Christian A
        April 26, 2014 at 3:56 am

        Nice :) Kuruth, then.

      • NateD
        April 26, 2014 at 4:00 am

        Woohoo!

  40. April 26, 2014 at 3:21 am

    Shapeshifting, please! (Hey, waddaya know, this is my first ever comment here)

    Also, FANTASTIC. I cannot wait to hear more. I’ve never been a big Werewolf guy, but man, you are knocking this out of the park. I’m getting more excited every week!

  41. wyrdhamster
    April 26, 2014 at 3:22 am

    I know it will sound a bit bad, but I see we still come back to Werewolf: The D&D with Auspices. No other supernatural splat have powers working “once per chapter”, especially, as so key as “inborn” splat. Basicly, with this format you all said “Cathalith need to make propthetc dream once a game session”, not more, not less. I assume same goes with other Auscpices so we got “Elodoth need to calm or infuriate some werewolf” and probably “Rahu need to go killing spree”. I know those should be mare leads on roleplaying of Auscpice, but every player want to do “iconic” things of his character at least once a game session otherwise he would choose randomly his X-Splat. So vampire player would want to use his Clan Disciplines, and mage players will favor their Ruling Arcana. But werewolves need to make once ( and only once ) per session Cool Action TM, and it will be the same over and over again – not of five powers from Disciplines or anything more open for multiple scense intepretations like Changlings Kiths Blessings. No, we got the same game scenario each session over and over again. I was hoping that devs would repair that with Idigam Chronicles, but it looks like this was in vain. Practically they said every game session need the same structure because iconic powers of characters are to be used in one schema, most of the time. Very bad Onyx Path, very bad… This is the first thing I don’t like as changes in Idigam Chronicles. Or rather – I’m very desapinted it wasn’t changed.

    Also, First Tounge I see has returned to open use in text, not with classical replacemnts. So as I see, we get for now more of old the same – in parts I would say we should have improvment. But it’s only my own opinion.

    I will vote for Kuruth, or would rather wrote “Death Rage”.

    • Stew
      April 26, 2014 at 3:34 am

      You’re working from a flawed premise. An Auspice’s equivalent to a vampire’s clan Disciplines or a mage’s Ruling Arcana are their Moon Gifts.

      • wyrdhamster
        April 26, 2014 at 6:46 am

        And still you give them also “this awesome, one use per game session power, so you need to remeber how your Auspice is cool”. It’s locking archetype here. In Vampire or Mage you just explore hints and connection – in Werewolf you NEED to have special power, that works only once per session.

        I wonder – why don’t you make it a 24 hours power? Or maybe Willpower cost one? So you could have at least 2-3 usage if players really wants to.

        Becuase now you shut the game sessions in more or less this schema:

        1. Cathalith have a dream.
        2. Itheru talks with spiritis.
        3. Irraka is scouting enemy.
        4. Rahu is prepring for combat.
        5. Elodoth grants Death Rage on Rahu to kill the beast.

        Each and every game session. No variaty. Becuase players would want to use their “awesome once-per-game-session powers”, it’s in their nature.

        • Jesuncolo
          April 26, 2014 at 7:16 am

          Or it could be:
          1) Ithaeur talks with spirits because something happened.
          2) Irraka investigates.
          3) Cahalith has a dream about being ambushed.
          4) The pack is ambushed and the Rahu must save the pack from certain death.
          5) Ithaeur looks for more information.
          6) Irraka investigates further.
          7) Elodoth tries to have a diplomatic solution to the problem.
          8) Cahalith has a dream about the ban or bane of the enemy.
          9) Any pack member manages to use the ban or bane of the enemy and shit happens.

          Wyrdhamster, not even Exalted works as you said, and Castes are even more “D&D class” than Auspices.

          • wyrdhamster
            April 26, 2014 at 9:46 am

            You mostly spell it out what I had in mind – it’s all the same, only permutation of “who starts the hunt”. Cathalith, practiclly, MUST have visions, it’s his role and he has power to use for this session to really shine. Your permuted scenario is better than “we use our powers once-per-session”, but it’s still locked in “we need to make use of our powers”. And it’s logical – players got powers of characters to be used. The problem is this power works once in session – so players would look for way to utlize it, always. It’s not they could reuse if they try ( like with Willpower cost ) or not something like it’s need time ( that you could not have ) to reset ( like with once per 24 hours powers in Mage ). No, it’s blunt once-per-game session, and by this, it’s locking game on Hunt and only it. No exploration, no drama. Every player want’s to be usefull and shine – so they look for ways to use they “once per session power”. I saw it in D&D Next playsets on beginig and quickly it was toss out as making REAL problems with game, even more than “you could use it once per day” powers.

        • Stew
          April 26, 2014 at 8:32 am

          That really isn’t how it works. You’re creating a whole structure around what I’ve said that simply isn’t there.

          • wyrdhamster
            April 26, 2014 at 10:00 am

            Okay, Stew, write me bluntly to I would not make false assumption here. Is Werewolf being design with anything other than there must be Sacred Hunt every game session? Becuase Auspices blessings show that it all leads to it. You give players power to use once only on session for better hunting – it’s bold statement to almost saying “your PC must hunt, period”. Are there really supported plays when players wouldn’t hunting anything? And “they can always, they won’t just have powers” isn’t good answer on this.

            Is it there place for something more? I understand that typical powers – that means Gifts – are made on hunting, they are werewolf thing in movies. But stateing “once per session you must do something cool in the hunt” means that Idigam Chronciles still is locked on variety of session themes – it leads to simple conclusion: “If there isn’t hunt, there shouldn’t be anything cool to do”. No real political intriuges. No real personal dramas. No, everything must be about hunting.

            It would be a bit less this problem if those powers – which I admit are real cool in itself – could be reused in game, for Willpower like or something. If Elodoth could make 3-4 usage of his calming power, political intruge and bloody negocation between packs could make place as game session. If Cathalith can declare multiple dreams there could be very interesting “there is prophecy on us” scenario.

            As devs, you just by yourself limiting your own game.

          • Eolirin
            April 26, 2014 at 12:29 pm

            @wyrdhamster:

            Did you read the description of the Cahalith aspect benefit? It is completely generic in it’s application and has nothing specifically to do with the hunt. It also has an always on component that isn’t limited by the once per chapter limit, that again, can be used in service of anything. The Cahalith can just as much get a prophetic dream about her boyfriend breaking up with her and opt to take the beat and automatic failure on a persuasion roll involving him as to take the bonus on a roll to subdue a rogue spirit.

            None of the rest of your points holds up in light of this; if Auspice benefits aren’t hunt specific they can be used to further all of the other types of non hunt events that may be taking place. There is no limitation on the direction a story can go in. And as long as the Rahu benefit is generically about conflict rather than only physical fighting, there won’t be limits on where players can use them either. They’re a way for a player to say I’m placing emphasis on this thematically appropriate to my auspice action, and I want more control over how it plays out.

          • Antares
            April 27, 2014 at 10:59 pm

            @wyrdhamster

            You said “No real political intriuges. No real personal dramas. No, everything must be about hunting.” and I am sorry but if you are a good ST or even a good Player you will find some loop holes about the hunt that will let you play the personal drama.

            For example: “Blood Talons now they specializes in hunting Werewolfs” meaning several things:
            1.- Blood Talons could probably focus on hunting other Forsaken just for the politica intrigues in a city or even in a Tribe.
            2.- Even if they specializes in hunting, doesn’t mean that other tribes do not do it or don not try to do it… just mean that they are better at “hunting” werewolfs
            3.- I don’t belive that hunting means killing everything in your path. In my troop the Storm Lord Itheaur was always hunting for information on the spirtis and ways to put them under her will. (Not to mentions she was a hell of an Alpha)

            @Stew
            That being said I didn’t love the Auspice Benefit of the Cahalith. The Auspice Benefit seams a lot like Insight 5 (Omen’Gazing) of the original WTF, so either maybe delete that Gift (or anything that looks like it) or maybe give the Cahalith some other Benefit.

            Howling for the Pack regaining 1wp
            Story Teller Song healing 1health on your pack
            Fear of the Beast reducing the Defence of the Pray X number
            Eyes of the Moon deciding if someone have a strong Destiny to be important in your life Story.

            I pass this to my troop Cahalith Iron Master and she was BLOWN away, she told me she wanted to replay her character just for the changes you made, she felt that this time her character would be more protagonic and less of side helper. (which is something she complain a lot in the past)

            And last a question the Hunter’s Aspect this will function like the Nimbus in Mage?

            Vote: Kuruth! (just because a good Irraka should always test the plan of an alpha to be sure its safe)

          • Ephsy
            April 28, 2014 at 6:37 pm

            @Antares: The thing with Omen Gazing is that it was in the Insight Gifts, which isn’t affinity with Cahaliths, thus allowing other werewolves the gift of prophecy.

  42. TheBadWolf
    April 26, 2014 at 4:25 am

    SHAPESHIFTING!!!11
    Also, will Cahalith have some social abilities? Or rule “social agent” now will have anly Elodots and Irraka?

  43. P
    April 26, 2014 at 4:33 am

    Shapeshifting!

  44. batronoban@gmail.com
    April 26, 2014 at 5:25 am

    I don’t understand the Elodoth.
    Why relations in the two worlds?

    It’s not clear.

    And special things once per chapter… its very limited…

    • HuckleberryNorwood
      April 28, 2014 at 10:32 am

      The Elodoth foster relations in the two worlds because their duty is to be the Walkers Between. The Elodoth have always been on both sides of any given situation, that’s their duty. In this instance, they foster relationships in both the physical and spirit worlds so as to be prepared for whatever the hunt may bring.

      Also, keep in mind that the auspice ability is not a werewolf’s only tool. Werewolves are much more physically imposing, with their regenerative and shapeshifting capabilites, than any other supernatural. Not only that, but they have access to gifts and rituals and can even harass their prey with bound spirits who could have a wide range of influences. The auspice abilities are fairly potent abilities that probably shouldn’t be used more than once a session. Having your Cahalith picking up three or four beats a session would put them unfairly ahead of the rest of the players. An Elodoth’s auspice ability would completely unbalance the game if she could use it multiple times. Either werewolves would be Death Raging all over the place or your players wouldn’t ever worry about Kuruth cause their Elodoth could just fix it.

      • tau neutrino
        April 29, 2014 at 1:17 am

        Demons are now more physically imposing than any other supernatural.

        • HuckleberryNorwood
          April 29, 2014 at 12:22 pm

          Is that so? That’s interesting. I haven’t gotten my copy of Demon yet, but I’m eagerly anticipating it. I guess it makes sense, though. It’s more dangerous for them to reveal their demonic form than it is for a Werewolf to enter Gauru. Werewolves at least have the protection of Lunacy, demons have to give up the protection of Cover.

          • tau neutrino
            May 2, 2014 at 1:20 am

            Deomns don’t really lose Cover, they just have to make a Compromise roll at a -2 penalty, more if humans see them. They can also partially transform at a bonus depending on how many form abilities they manifest.

  45. adam
    April 26, 2014 at 5:57 am

    Shapeshifting please

  46. David M.
    April 26, 2014 at 6:11 am

    Great work Ony Path!!

    I like very much the way you all are doing this in general.

    But I only have fear for something, don’t are you going with too many games at the same time?, I mean that NWoD, TWoD, and much more games at the same time could make you not really to be able to focus on any of them.

    Again grats!, Keep on!

    And finally my vote goes for Shapeshifting

    • IanW
      April 26, 2014 at 11:52 am

      It’s not like we have exactly the same teams working on every game line. While there’s a little bit of overlap, by and large we have different people working on different games.

    • Ephsy
      April 26, 2014 at 2:58 pm

      That’s the beauty of employing freelance writing.

  47. Scarbringer
    April 26, 2014 at 6:39 am

    Stew, I have a question.
    The elodoth can still hold a ”judge and jury” position that can make him more ”punisher” (and physical) or it will become focused only in a ”social hunter” way?

    • Stew
      April 26, 2014 at 8:33 am

      The Elodoth can still hold the judge & jury type role, but they’re not required to do it. When it comes to meting out physical punishments, they may do it themselves or ask their pack’s Rahu.

  48. Jesuncolo
    April 26, 2014 at 7:05 am

    Shapeshifting.

  49. Zanity
    April 26, 2014 at 7:10 am

    Shapeshifting.

  50. Ephraim
    April 26, 2014 at 7:37 am

    Can hardly wait for Idigam Chronicles.
    Keep giving us these wonderful teasers Stew.

    Hard choice this one, but I vote for:
    KURUTH!

  51. reseru
    April 26, 2014 at 7:48 am

    Um…I can still vote for idigam, right? Put me down for idigam

  52. Thorbes
    April 26, 2014 at 9:38 am

    Shapeshifting, definitely.

    The sample draft looks very inspiring, loving it!

  53. David M.
    April 26, 2014 at 10:44 am

    Shapeshifting

  54. Starglyte
    April 26, 2014 at 11:19 am

    Shapeshifting please.

    Love the first draft. I really like how the aura makes the environment like a horror movie.

  55. ale
    April 26, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    shapeshift

  56. batronoban@gmail.com
    April 26, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    I don’t understand the Elodoth part. It’s not as focused as the others. Can you explain more ?

    Shapeshifting please !

    • Ephsy
      April 26, 2014 at 3:01 pm

      Elodoth are Walkers Between, the ones who determinate the proper influence of the Shadow in the Material and vice-versa. The spirit diplomats. The pack’s face to, for example, human authorities.

  57. Fion
    April 26, 2014 at 4:41 pm

    Tough call. I chose Shapeshifting.

    Love this little tease on Auspice. So happy to see the preview is Cahalith as that is and has always been my favorite Auspice. Glad to see ‘aspect’ as part of core. Also love just the depth presented in that short 3-page draft. Keep up the good work!

    Howls-The-Fury

  58. Lyrics-of- war
    April 26, 2014 at 5:27 pm

    Great job with cahalith! I was nervous at first but this change is amazing!!! And I’m gonna go with kuruth to be difficult.

  59. Rahuman101
    April 26, 2014 at 9:50 pm

    Shapeshifting!

  60. Baboonking
    April 26, 2014 at 10:01 pm

    Cool write up for the cahalith. I could see myself playing one now, something that never really interested me before.

    I vote for Shapeshifting. I’m hoping for a solid re-tooling of the Gauru form. The time limit for using it either needs to be removed or reworked into something different.

  61. amaterasu
    April 26, 2014 at 10:40 pm

    Nice, nice.

    Vote: Shapeshifting

  62. Matt
    April 27, 2014 at 8:52 am

    This is slightly off topic, Stew, but not sure where else to ask. In blood and smoke, Kindred were significantly beefed up physically in that now slashing type weapons are only bashing damage. any discussion between you and Rose regarding what type of damage is inflicted by werewolf teeth and claws?

  63. Aiden
    April 27, 2014 at 10:30 am

    Shapeshifting.

    So far so good, guys. Auspices feel like they have a place now.

  64. Aleksay
    April 27, 2014 at 10:53 am

    Kuruth

  65. JoeB.
    April 27, 2014 at 12:52 pm

    I asked for it last week so I’ll ask for it again:

    Shapeshifting, tis what this game is about.

  66. Geroto
    April 28, 2014 at 10:15 am

    Shapeshifting.

  67. Jordan Millward
    April 28, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Shapeshifting, hands down.

    I’m seriously looking forward to this book guys, keep up the awesome work!

  68. Tymeaus Jalynsfein
    April 28, 2014 at 11:17 am

    Shapeshifting for Sure. :)

  69. Tadanori Oyama
    April 28, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    Shapeshifting please.

  70. Big Damn Hero
    April 29, 2014 at 9:27 am

    Shapeshifting, definitely

  71. JDspeeder1
    April 30, 2014 at 5:43 pm

    Shapeshifting

    Has there ever been a First Tongue pronunciation guide? I’d like to know how these words are supposed to sound.

    • HuckleberryNorwood
      May 1, 2014 at 12:24 am

      Or just a full First Tongue primer! I have always wanted a good collection of all the First Tongue stuff in the game.

  72. hoodedclaw
    April 30, 2014 at 8:40 pm

    Shapeshifting

  73. Danny James
    May 1, 2014 at 5:52 am

    Shapeshifting

    -I’d always like the idea of partial change as an inherent thing rather than optional and want to see if it makes the cut. And to see if you let us know anything about changes to bonuses from forms.

  74. God of Madness
    May 1, 2014 at 10:37 am

    Shapeshifting, please.

  75. NateD
    May 1, 2014 at 7:50 pm

    Stew, I think Shapeshifting is going to win out, which is unfortunate… but it does allow me to make a music recommendation!

    “Final Form” by Everything Everything – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLM30laoOaA

  76. Phersus
    May 3, 2014 at 5:08 pm

    Agh, i arrive so late. Anyway, i just stop here to say, one more time, great job. It’s the first time i can relate to the Cahalith. Moreso, it’s the first time i would enjoy playing one. Great, great job. Keep going!

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