Happy Tuesday!
I just got finished handing off essential documents for V20 Dark Ages over to Mike for layout and art direction. Boy are my arms tired. But my next development project right now is V20 Black Hand. Not settled on the name yet. I’m thinking, “Dark Conspiracy: V20 Guide to the Tal’Mahe’Ra”. We’ll see.
Anyway, I don’t have the time to do a full open development process here. We’re on a tighter deadline than some other books, and I have a pretty good idea of what I want to see. I may share some drafts down the line, but in the mean time, I wanted to pull back the curtain a bit on the early parts of the process for me.
This is two documents. The first was my pitch outline. I talked to writers, then we had a bunch of email conversations, requests for sections, that sort of thing. Afterwards, I gave them all assignments. They’re not 100% final, since I’m still in the process of sending out contracts. But this is basically what the book will look like. You’re missing some context, so bear with me. I literally have over 1,000 emails pertaining to this outline. I doubt anyone would want me to post all of those.
This is a super exciting book for me, because I have some CWoD veterans, some new writers, some super awesome indie game designers, and some people who have been working with me on the revived Dark Ages line. This is a group of people who have shaped and been shaped by this book.
Here’s our preliminary outline.
Here’s the final assignments that morphed out of it and the surrounding discussion.
Comments
20 responses to “V20 Black Hand – Vaguely Open Development”
I’m stoked. I can’t really say more right now, but this is awesome.
I am looking forward to this.. I was a huge fan of the Dark Secret book and look forward to the same format being used here.. The only thing I don’t agree with from the outline is I’m one of those weird players that likes the history parts of books, or the backgrounds of NPCs.. It gives me as a player and an ST a guide line of how crazy I can get with my PCs and NPCs.. So I don’t think most things are boring.
When this book was announced it definitely took me by surprise. However, the Tal’Mahe’Ra is already relatively prominent in V20 – I don’t think it was ever referenced in a corebook before – so I shouldn’t have been too surprised.
There are some design guidelines I really like here, especially the focus on useability including for non-Black Hand games, and the aim to avoid jargon from other games and makes this readable to V20 readers. I know most of the old White Wolf canon really well, but I don’t go to V20 for that – I go to V20 for a more self-contained Director’s Cut experience.
I hope that the history section is presented in broad strokes, and is not overly specific. I like my Vampire history to be broad but evocative, full of dark places and hidden corners without everything spelled out. I notice that the outline refers to ghoul families at one point – I’m sure you’ve already thought of this, but I hope you are coordinating with the developer for V20 ghouls to avoid both contradiction and unnecessary overlap. I like the references to V20-Dark Ages, especially the V20DA Koldunism which is awesome. That said, while I love the V20DA version of the Discipline, I hope that this book (and other V20 supplements) don’t end up revising V20 too much, and the line remains compatible. Also I like the idea of the sample chronicle 🙂 – I would love it if it could tie into Gary, Indiana, that old sample chronicle stomping ground.
Looking at the second document, I’m a bit disappointed to see that music quotes are out since they played such a big part in the old Vampire books. I’m glad that V20DA Koldunism will be making an appearance compatibility will be maintained – I hope there is some advice (maybe a sidebar) on using this as either an alternative, a supplement, etc.
All in all, this book looks pretty cool 🙂
Please do keep the title, I love it. Honestly, just what I’ve seen so far in the V20 line about the Tal’Mahe’Ra has just been a breath of fresh air. I am someone who was very much a fan of the Tal’Mahe’Ra and only disliked when they tried to make the Tal’Mahe’Ra into something not quite vampiric (they came off as Vampire Superheroes in DSotTBH).
I loved the origins of the Tal’Mahe’Ra and always wanted to know how I could play a character in this secretive sect. I just wanted to tell you that I read your bit about condescension and it showed me you truly understood the issue here. I was one of those 14-16 year old gamers who read the book and loved it, but I’d love to see the sect grow up like I did. I’m sure you guys know what you’re doing and I’m eager to see what you do.
PS: One simple request, Cappadocians in the Tal’Mahe’Ra. I know it’s been mentioned briefly in one section of V20 material (the Companion in the Kaymakli writeup), but I’ve always felt they were MADE for that sect. I would love you long time and it wouldn’t even cost you $5. (TOTALLY JOKING!…sort of >.>)
Take a look at the second document, the ‘splat’ assignments… I hope that the one in there for ‘Harbingers’ might satisfy (or whet) an appetite for the old Clan of Death.
How were they “vampire superheroes” in DSotBH? Especially since the book was by the same writer who created Tal’Mahe’Ra and the Sabbat in the first place.
Hmm, seems my comment from yesterday got lost in the interqebz. Well, reposting my opinion then:
Although I understand the urge and willingness to flavor the title with something like “Dark Conspiracy”, I personally think it just might be a bit over the top.
First and foremost the word Tal’Mahe’Ra is obscure in itself, lending quite some flavor to the title as it is.
Secondly it makes sense to keep all sect-focused books following the revised-style, naming them “Guide to the X” without other subtitles or titles added. It would also make sense if you should make a book about the even more enigmatic Inconnu later on.
Thirdly, if it’s named in uniform with the old sect guide books, even if this is V20, it would look better on the bookshelf when you line them up. Maybe not a major argument, but to people like me it matters.
Personally, I would prefer that the V20 books be distinguished from the Revised ones. I feel that V20 should present a self-contained image. I would like to see V20 takes on the Camarilla and Sabbat at some point.
I agree, although I’m also not keen on ‘Dark Conspiracy’ as a title.
Having a naming convention for all the sect guides would be nice, but the precedent for V20 books would be set by Anarchs Unbound which is a difficult template to apply to the other sects.
May I ask why? Except for the reason that it should be distinguished just because it’s a new edition. Because that’s not really relevant. While V20 might be metaplot agnostic, it’s not setting agnostic (not my words, developers words on the subject in the past). And what’s been written in old editions (especially revised) still holds true.
New sect books on the Camarilla and Sabbat seems a bit superfluos. A supplement like Anarchs Unbound, giving internal conflicts within those sects more space, now that would be neat however.
As a player and as a Storyteller – not to mention as one who’s BOTH a rabid fan and a merciless critic of Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand – I quite like the direction you’re going. The single-story fiction idea reminds me of the tale in a Wraith book (forget the title at the moment) about a ghost on a tour through the Tempest, one that ended with him showing the Smiling Lord the location of Enoch. Maybe find that title and have your fictioneer read it, hey?
In regards to condescension, I agree to a point your statement, but my disagreement goes only so far as IN-character statements. There are plenty of old wanks within the sect that see themselves as proper heroes. Those monsters are wrong more often than not, or rather, they don’t see anything past their own goals and actions. This must be true for most people – be they un-dead or not – and I’d hate to lose that flavour from the text.
In regards to Koldun magic, all I wanna say is: An Enochian kraina? Yikes! (In the BEST possible way, mind…)
Finally, in regards to work on Infernalism, Dark Thaumaturgy, spooky-ass eldritch necro-blasphemy proper black magic, you might want to direct your writer(s) to check out the books Sins of the Blood AND State of Grace. Those could offer some nice insights for the Lilith cults, too, since they deal with the (sometimes overlooked as mere ‘fluff’) notions of how a vampire can be holy-without-Golconda and dastardly-without-Infernalism, which seem to be the norms in a lot of our minds but are more poles on a continuum in MY mind.
…Regardless of whether the above are taken to heart, I’m sure I’ll love this book. Sorry to say, it’s likely to get the same treatment that I gave Rites of the Blood for an eye to corrections. I’m happy to do that, even IF my name gets misspelled in the “Special Thanks” column. O_o
Loved this, thanks for sharing!
Is there any chance that we can see the preview for V20 Dark Ages material referenced in the outline that we haven’t yet? Specifically: the Path of Lilith, True Brujah, Vicissitude, Old Clan Tzimisce, and Tzimisce apocrypha. (On Lilith, I already liked the shifting away from the over reference to rape and its use as an origin story!)
On the reading list, besides Infernalism, Rites of Blood also had Tal’Mahe’Ra sorcery.
Very excited about this book!!!
Think the outline is fine so far.
Maybe just as an idea from my side. I would like to see the Giovanni somewhat included. Like they aren’t so much into the Anarchs, so it might be nice if they got some interesting tie-ins to the Tal’Mahe’Ra. Links to those could maybe explain a bit further why they do keep their independant stance.
Might spike my general interest regarding this faction a lot.
It also feels less of then bringing an (supposed to be) extinct clan back.
Would also be cool to have maybe some dark-necromancy input from the Giovanni side of things,..
What’s 150,000 words equate to page wise, roughly?
It depends? Usually in the 200-220 page ballpark I think. Depends on the book. Every one has a different average word count.
Saw nothing in the outline about the chatterlings. Are you folks still planning to include (and perhaps) expand on the youngest members of the Tal’Mahe’Ra?
Oh yes please and alltogether just, yes, please!!!
How about “Little White Lies of the Tal’Mahe’Ra: Guide to the Black Hand”
I’m lost, and i’m sorry if i’m saying something fool.
I really like the idea of this book, but I thought that the sect had been almost completely destroyed, as it’s said in the Children of The Revolution ( Roderigo Al-Dakhil)
Can someone help me to understand?
Unreliable narrators can confuse.