We Came Back From Vacation, and Then Out Of the Grave! [Monday Meeting Notes]

Monday Meeting, News

Hello everybody!

We’re all back from last week’s company-wide vacation, and I’m happy to report that our crew are rested and rejuvenated! Sometimes, you just need to block out all the work stuff, no matter how much you enjoy it, and let your creative batteries recharge.

So, now that we’re back – what’s going on?

We are in the They Came From Beyond the Grave! Kickstarter’s final days! We’re closing in on both the pledge totals and number of backers from the They Came From Beneath the Seas!‘s KS, so we could really use your help in spreading the word!

If you know a fan of 70s horror movies, of TV’s Dark Shadows and Kolchak: The Night Stalker, of Victorian vampires: let them know that we’ve got a game that can be played as straight-up horror or can be played for laughs!

And all you need to play is in the one book, but by backing you get the added Stretch Goal projects like Monsters From the Crypt, the book of antagonists that we are $1000 away from adding a third section to, and the Tales of Depravity scenarios book!

So spread the word, and if they need extra incentive, go ahead and have them click on the link to the actual play we did at our online con:

The children of the night salute you (when they’re not making what music they make)!

Titanomachy art by Andrea Payne

What Did We Discuss At The Meeting Today?

Well, first, we went over what we all did during our week off, and how we were doing after that. Where are our respective head spaces, as it were. But you don’t want to hear about that so much, I’m sure, so here’s the other things we talked about.

Mysteries of the World is #1 on DTRPG! still, which is even more gratifying considering how many PDFs went out to backers as part of the Stretch Goals already!

Related, we discussed our next Kickstarter possibilities and it looks like Scion: Demigod is going to be ready for its KS the first week in September! More words on that these next couple of weeks!

Scion: Demigod art by Aaron Riley

We talked about the sales that are going on with our various sales partners, as below, with the Deluxe Wraith 20 and Screen on sale for the first time at Indie Press Revolution – and a darkly gorgeous book it is! A true labor of love, too, by Messers Dansky and Dawkins heading up some phenomenal writers!

Also below, but in the Onyx Path Media section, Eddy’s Workshops wrapped up. What the heck, here are the links to last two episodes so you don’t have to scroll down:

Eddy’s Workshop – The Editing Phase of RPG Developmenthttps://youtu.be/zPXWl0c7mmM

Eddy’s Workshop – The Approvals Phase of RPG Development – https://youtu.be/Qf-FQMBLaAs

In this series of YouTube vids, Eddy goes step by step through the process of how to create RPG books, so if you are interested in how it all happens, both here at Onyx Path and elsewhere across the TTRPG industry, these are invaluable.

Also, while doing these, Eddy has also been running a series of development and project management workshops for our writers and developers. These came directly out of our Developer Town Halls we held all through the first months of Covid-19, and the many requests he had from our developers. So far, Eddy has done some group sessions, and some individual mentoring, and the responses have been fantastic!

I think Covid-19 has hit a lot of creative people hard and even the most driven creators have been hammered in their productivity, so this is us helping folks get back on to getting things done.

(I used two forms of get in a single sentence there. My old HS English teacher T.J. McCauley, who warned us never to use “get” because there is always a better word, must be spinning in his grave.)

Heroic Land-Dwellers! art by Brian LeBlanc

Time continues to show that Covid-19 has also affected some of our partners. On sale to the public this week on DTRPG is the PDF and PoD versions of Heroic Land-Dwellers! for They Came From Beneath the Sea!, but the PDF went out to backers in May. Getting the PoD version ready and printed and proofed has just dragged on.

Similarly, our Screen printer has been hard hit, but is persevering slowly. So even though we have KS books almost ready to send as rewards, we still need to have the Screens to ship them all together and that’s been a slower cycle than it has in the past.

But, refreshed now from our week of Not Work, we’re back and rarin’ to go! Ready to tackle these challenges and get our projects through the stages to get to you. Ready to once again pull together all the many threads that go into weaving our tapestry of gaming goodness featuring our:

Many Worlds, One Path!



The They Came From Beyond the Grave! Kickstarter is in its last days – take a look at what horrors have been revealed so far: the Screen and two sections of Monsters from the Crypt: a book containing More Monsters, an exclusive KS t-shirt coupon, electronic Grave!-themed wallpaper, and two scenarios in the Tales of Depravity PDF! Next up in Stretch Goals are even More Monsters and electronic Wallpaper!

We’re only about $1000 away from adding in a third section to Monsters from the Crypt – so please spread the word and let’s get that Stretch goal un-buried!

Thanks to all of you who have pledged to enable this fantastic project and its Stretch Goals!

Here’s a specially-made special trailer by the brilliant Larry Blamire:

And keep your eyes open for:

Next Up on Kickstarter:

Scion: Demigod 2nd Edition the first week in September!

Onyx Path Media!

This week: The Terrific Trio of Terribleness take random game ideas and build them up to game pitches!

As always, this Friday’s Onyx Pathcast will be on Podbean or your favorite podcast venue! https://onyxpathcast.podbean.com/

For anyone new to our media section, you can find us running and playing games over on twitch.tv/theonyxpath pretty much every day of the week!

Plus, if you’d like your games hosted there, just get in touch with Matthew Dawkins using the contact link on matthewdawkins.com

Please give our Twitch channel a follow, as you can find a huge number of videos of all kinds of games, along with our What’s Up with Onyx Path? livestream conducted for Gen Con weekend!

This week on Twitch, expect to see these games and streams running:

  • Scarred Lands – A Family Affair
  • Mage: The Ascension – Technocracy Reloaded
  • Scion: Hero – Behind the Screen
  • They Came from Beyond the Grave!
  • Changeling: The Dreaming – The Last Faerie Tale
  • Mage: The Awakening – Occultists Anonymous
  • Vampire: The Masquerade – Boston by Night

Get watching for some fantastic insight into how to run these wonderful games and subscribe to us on Twitch, over at twitch.tv/theonyxpath

It’s the last week of the They Came from Beyond the Grave! Kickstarter, so if you missed it, please check out our ENnie award winning friends at Red Moon Roleplaying, who have concluded their They Came from Beyond the Grave! story, with their usual excellent editing, quality, and in this case, a lovely cast of players led by Director, Matthew Dawkins! Come join in and listen to the Cult of Abaddon at play: https://youtu.be/RDYzNbk7VkQ

Come take a look at our YouTube channel, youtube.com/user/theonyxpath, where you can find a whole load of videos of actual plays, dissections of our games, and more, including:

Changeling: The Lost – Littlebrook Reunion FINALE – https://youtu.be/Evc0DDvLOPE

Blood City: Chicago by Night FINALE – https://youtu.be/dVdt0S6oWm0

(Matthew’s favourite) Scarred Lands – Purge of the Serpentholds Episode 10 – https://youtu.be/XtZouhVac9k

Deviant: The Renegades – A Cautionary Tale – Episode Twohttps://youtu.be/GETIo92dUdY

Eddy’s Workshop – The Editing Phase of RPG Developmenthttps://youtu.be/zPXWl0c7mmM

Eddy’s Workshop – The Approvals Phase of RPG Development – https://youtu.be/Qf-FQMBLaAs

Realms of Pugmire: Paws & Claws – S2E10 – https://youtu.be/SA3fot155wA

Scarred Lands – Purge of the Serpentholds Episode 11 – https://youtu.be/XtZouhVac9khttps://youtu.be/KNWMVZ9KtQI

Deviant: The Renegades – A Cautionary Tale – Episode Three – https://youtu.be/F9mKS-w6lso

Realms of Pugmire: Paws & Claws – S2E11 – https://youtu.be/aZ4Mxy_k9JU

Subscribe to our channel and click the bell icon if you want to be notified whenever new news videos and uploads come online!

Systematic Understanding of Everything is a new Exalted Explainer Podcast by Exalted Dev Monica Speca and Exalted Writer Chazz Kellner that is breaking down Creation in 45 minute chunks in preparation for Exalted Essence.

Their most recent episodes are available over on https://www.exaltcast.com/, where they’ve covered everything from Lunars and Dragon-Blooded to Solars and asking the question: What is Creation?

The Story Told Podcast have just started a new chapter in their Fall of Jiara Exalted chronicle, and we’d love it if you gave them some support. Here’s their character intros: https://thestorytold.libsyn.com/fall-of-jiara-character-intros

Dork Tales are partway through their Werewolf: The Forsaken actual play, The Bitches of Brewery Park! Check it out on their channel: https://www.twitch.tv/dorktales

And our very own Chris Allen runs his chronicle of Werewolf: The Forsaken over on Paleo Gaming‘s Twitch channel. Do check out Very Angry Dogshttps://www.twitch.tv/paleo_gaming

Two new Occultists Anonymous episodes for you fans of Mage: The Awakening! Find them right here:

Episode 118: Chimed In 
The cabal follows Songbird into an Aetheric Emanation Realm, prepared with only a few hints from Hadramiel. First though, there is a watcher in place at the entrance…  

Episode 119: Explore, Expand, Exploit… 
The cabal investigates the odd ‘hotel’ they’ve found themselves in and further explores out into the Emanation Realm itself, which seems to have some kind of specific purpose.

Please check these out and let us know if you find or produce any actual plays of our games! We’d love to feature you!

Electronic Gaming!

As we find ways to enable our community to more easily play our games, the Onyx Dice Rolling App is live! Our dev team has been doing updates since we launched based on the excellent use-case comments by our community, and this thing is awesome! (Seriously, you need to roll 100 dice for Exalted? This app has you covered.)

We’re told that the App Dev is currently creating an updated version for the latest devices, so keep an eye open for those!

Virtual TableTop!

Introducing a Virtual Tabletop encounter pack for the Trinity Continuum Core: Hunt for the Red Widow on DTRPG!

Hunt for the Red Widow is a short encounter designed starting Talents in the Trinity Continuum Core setting. When a renowned but mysterious thief known as The Red Widow steals an ancient artifact from the Æon Society’s vaults, it is up to the party to track her down and recover the device. She is heading to an old ruin said to unlock the artifact’s true power. Can the heroes reach her in time?

Inside you’ll find:

  • A short encounter for use with the Trinity Continuum Corebook
  • Two new antagonists: The Red Widow, and her minions, known simply as “Ghosts.” Virtual tabletop tokens are included to represent the antagonists
  • Two maps, ready to be uploaded into your virtual tabletop platform of choice
  • New Anomaly Powers.

On Amazon and Barnes & Noble!

You can now read our fiction from the comfort and convenience of your Kindle (from Amazon) and Nook (from Barnes & Noble).

If you enjoy these or any other of our books, please help us by writing reviews on the site of the sales venue from which you bought it. Reviews really, really help us get folks interested in our amazing fiction!

Our selection includes these latest fiction books:

Our Sales Partners!

We’re working with Studio2 to provide our traditionally printed books out into your local game stores. Game stores can order via their usual distributors, and can also contact Studio2 directly. And individuals can check out our projects via the links below!

You can pick up the traditionally printed Pugmire and Monarchies of Mau main books, screens, and the official dice through our friends there! https://studio2publishing.com/search?q=pugmire

Now, we’ve added Chronicles of Darkness books such as Changeling: The Lost Second Edition products to Studio2‘s store! See them here: https://studio2publishing.com/collections/all-products/changeling-the-lost

Scion 2e books and other products are available now at Studio2: https://studio2publishing.com/blogs/new-releases/scion-second-edition-book-one-origin-now-available-at-your-local-retailer-or-online

Our Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition books are also available from Studio2 in the US: https://studio2publishing.com/products/vampire-the-masquerade-chicago-by-night-sourcebook

Looking for our Deluxe or Prestige Edition books? Try this link! http://www.indiepressrevolution.com/xcart/Onyx-Path-Publishing/

And you can order Pugmire, Monarchies of Mau, Cavaliers of Mars, and Changeling: The Lost 2e at the same link! And now Scion Origin and Scion Hero and Trinity Continuum Core and Trinity Continuum: Aeon are available to order

It’s the return of the DOG DAYS OF SUMMER SALE!

As always, you can find Onyx Path’s titles at DriveThruRPG.com!

The Cthulhu Mythos sale at DriveThruRPG starts this week, and we’ll have some God-Machine PDFs included in the sale!

On Sale This Week!

This Wednesday, the PDF and PoD versions of Heroic Land-Dwellers! for They Came From Beneath the Sea! gird their loins and prepare for watery menaces… and go on sale on DTRPG!

Heroic Land-Dwellers! is a collection of playable characters for They Came from Beneath the Sea!, a roleplaying game of drama, science fiction, and farce in which you play the only humans capable of driving back the watery threats seeking to invade, destroy, or enslave humanity.

This book is for use with the They Came from Beneath the Sea! tabletop roleplaying game. They Came from Beneath the Sea! uses the Storypath System, provided in full in the core rulebook available separately. 

Heroic Land-Dwellers! includes:

• Sixteen playable characters, each with biographies, stats, Quips, and artwork to help you immediately involve them in a story as protagonists, supporting characters, or villains!

• Fiction by Larry Blamire, to set the action-packed and sometimes nonsensical tone of science fiction B-movies and games such as this one!

Also, this Weds sees the release on DTRPG of the They Came From Beneath the Sea! Director’s Screen PDF! Handy charts to make it even easier to run TCFBtS!.

Finally on Wednesday, we present you with the compiled Dark Eras for Changeling: The Lost, all together in one handy book in PDF and PoD versions on DTRPG!


Though dates for physical conventions are subject to change due to the current COVID-19 outbreak, here’s what’s left of our current list of upcoming conventions (and really, we’re just waiting for this last one to be cancelled even though it’s Nov/Dec). Instead, keep an eye out here for more virtual conventions we’re going to be involved with:

PAX Unplugged: https://unplugged.paxsite.com/

And now, the new project status updates!

Development Status from Eddy Webb! (Projects in bold have changed status since last week.):

First Draft (The first phase of a project that is about the work being done by writers, not dev prep.)

  • Exalted Essay Collection (Exalted)
  • The Devoted Companion (Deviant: The Renegades)
  • Prometheus Unbound (was Psi Orders) (Trinity Continuum: Aeon)
  • No Gods, No Masters (Scion 2nd Edition)
  • Scion Fiction Anthology (Scion 2nd Edition)
  • TC: Aeon Novella: Dawn (Trinity Continuum: Aeon)
  • TC: Aeon Novella: Meridian (Trinity Continuum: Aeon)
  • Legacies of Earth (Legendlore)


  • Dragon-Blooded Novella #2 (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Wild Hunt (Scion 2nd Edition)
  • CtL 2e Novella Collection: Hollow Courts (Changeling: The Lost 2e)
  • Adversaries of the Righteous (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Squeaks In The Deep (Realms of Pugmire)
  • Trinity Continuum: Anima

Second Draft

  • Many-Faced Strangers – Lunars Companion (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • The Clades Companion (Deviant: The Renegades)
  • M20 Rich Bastard’s Guide To Magick (Mage: The Ascension 20th Anniversary)
  • Hundred Devil’s Night Parade (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Novas Worldwide (Trinity Continuum: Aberrant)
  • Exalted Essence Edition (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Saints and Monsters (Scion 2nd Edition)
  • M20 Technocracy Operative’s Dossier (Mage: The Ascension 20th Anniversary)


  • TC: Aberrant Reference Screen (Trinity Continuum: Aberrant)
  • Across the Eight Directions (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Contagion Chronicle: Global Outbreaks (Chronicles of Darkness)
  • Exigents (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Assassins (Trinity Continuum Core)
  • Kith and Kin (Changeling: The Lost 2e)
  • V5 Forbidden Religions (Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition)
  • V5 Children of the Blood (was The Faithful Undead) (Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition)
  • Trinity Continuum: Adventure! core (Trinity Continuum: Adventure!)

Manuscript Approval

  • Crucible of Legends (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • M20 Victorian Mage (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • V5 Trails of Ash and Bone (Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition)
  • Mission Statements (Trinity Continuum: Aeon)
  • Dystopia Rising: Evolution Fiction Anthology (Dystopia Rising: Evolution)
  • Contagion Chronicle Ready-Made Characters (Chronicles of Darkness)
  • Dead Man’s Rust (Scarred Lands)

Post-Approval Development


  • Lunars Novella (Rosenberg) (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Mummy: The Curse 2nd Edition core rulebook (Mummy: The Curse 2nd Edition)
  • Player’s Guide to the Contagion Chronicle (Chronicles of Darkness)
  • TC: Aberrant Jumpstart (Trinity Continuum: Aberrant)
  • LARP Rules (Scion 2nd Edition)
  • Heirs to the Shogunate (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • The Book of Lasting Death (Mummy: The Curse 2e)
  • Scion: Dragon (Scion 2nd Edition)
  • Scion: Demigod (Scion 2nd Edition)
  • Dearly Bleak – Novella (Deviant: The Renegades)
  • N!ternational Wrestling Entertainment (Trinity Continuum: Aberrant)
  • Under Alien Skies (Trinity Continuum: Aeon)

Post-Editing Development

  • City of the Towered Tombs (Cavaliers of Mars)
  • W20 Shattered Dreams Gift Cards (Werewolf: The Apocalypse 20th)
  • Cults of the Blood Gods (Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition)
  • Hunter: The Vigil 2e core (Hunter: The Vigil 2nd Edition)
  • Trinity Continuum: Aberrant core (Trinity Continuum: Aberrant)
  • Deviant: The Renegades (Deviant: The Renegades)
  • Monsters of the Deep (They Came From Beneath the Sea!)
  • Legendlore core book (Legendlore)
  • Pirates of Pugmire KS-Added Adventure (Realms of Pugmire)
  • Tales of Aquatic Terror (They Came From Beneath the Sea!)
  • Terra Firma (Trinity Continuum: Aeon)
  • One Foot in the Grave Jumpstart (Geist: The Sin-Eaters 2e)
  • Masks of the Mythos (Scion 2nd Edition)
  • Trinity Continuum Jumpstart (Trinity Continuum)
  • They Came From Beyond the Grave! (They Came From!)
  • Contagion Chronicle Jumpstart (Chronicles of Darkness)


  • Lunars: Fangs At The Gate (Exalted 3rd Edition)

Art Direction from Mike Chaney!

In Art Direction

  • Tales of Aquatic Terror
  • WoD Ghost Hunters (KS) – KS page prepped and ready to go to Paradox for approval.
  • Aberrant
  • Hunter: The Vigil 2e
  • Mummy 2
  • Deviant
  • Legendlore
  • Technocracy Reloaded
  • Cults of the Blood God
  • Scion: Dragon (KS)
  • Masks of the Mythos (KS) – Cover is in and it looks sweet.
  • Scion: Demigod (KS) – KS art and graphics all finished.
  • They Came From Beyond the Grave! (KS) – KS running.
  • TC: Adventure! (KS)
  • Geist: One Foot In the Grave

In Layout

  • Yugman’s Guide to Ghelspad
  • Vigil Watch
  • V5 Let the Streets Run Red – Going into proofing this week.
  • Pugmire Adventure
  • Trinity Core Jumpstart


  • Lunars: Fangs at the Gate – Indexing.
  • Cavaliers of Mars: City of the Towered Tombs
  • Magic Item Decks (Scarred Lands)
  • Yugman’s Guide Support Decks (Scarred Lands)
  • TC Aeon Terra Firma
  • Scion Titanomachy

At Press

  • TCFBTS Heroic Land Dwellers – PDF and PoD on sale this Weds!
  • TCFBTS Screen and Booklet – Files at press.
  • They Came from Beneath the Sea! – Shipping from printer to KS fulfiller.
  • Pirates of Pugmire – Shipping from printer to KS fulfiller.
  • Pirates of Pugmire Screen – Files at press.
  • Dark Eras 2 – Files printing.
  • Dark Eras 2 Screen and booklet – Files at press.
  • Changeling: The Lost 2nd Edition Dark Eras Compilation – PDF and PoD on sale this Weds!
  • Contagion Chronicle – Press prep.
  • Contagion Chronicle Screen and Booklet – Files at press.
  • Lunars Wall Scroll Map – Shipping to KS fulfiller from printer.
  • Lunars Screen and Booklet – Files at press.
  • Scarred Lands Creature Collection – Shipping from printer to KS fulfiller.

Today’s Reason to Celebrate!

Eight (8) years ago today we held our first “What Is the Onyx Path?” panel at Gen Con, announcing our company and our slate of releases for that coming year. Most of which have been released by now!

  20 comments for “We Came Back From Vacation, and Then Out Of the Grave! [Monday Meeting Notes]

    August 17, 2020 at 8:56 pm

    The Changeling: The Lost 2nd Edition Dark Eras Compilation – Will it have all the eras updated to de second edition? I have the books of the Dark era, will it still be worth buying?

    • tasti man LH
      August 17, 2020 at 9:09 pm

      Last I checked…no. They’re going to be the versions of Eras as they were in their original books.

      And last I checked, OPP has no plans to release official updates of the 1e Eras.

      • richt
        August 17, 2020 at 10:00 pm


  2. C Will
    August 17, 2020 at 9:22 pm

    (Hopefully not a double post) Any movement at all on Mummy 2e?

    • richt
      August 17, 2020 at 9:56 pm

      Until a project moves to the next stage, any “movement” in that stage isn’t something we want to get that granular with in these reports. Our teams need room to work as they need to in each stage along the way, so we don’t get further into what’s going on in there. Thanks!

  3. Mateus Luz
    August 17, 2020 at 9:28 pm

    We have many KSs around Art Direction. I am quite curious about the plans for multiple KSs at same time or multiple books in the same KS.
    I know that you are not going to tell much about it now, but, maybe next week, you could talk about possibilities for the rest of the year, as we have not many “KS slots” available this year.

    Anyway. Hope each of you had a great time off and are happy to be back! Because I am glad to have you guys back

    • richt
      August 17, 2020 at 9:59 pm

      The rest of the year could be quite tricky. We’ve got US Presidental elections in November, and those…well…could impact how we move forward with our KSs. We definitely saw an effect on KS during the onset of Covid-19, so we’d rather not get caught in that same issue of everything in the real world taking up potential backers’ bandwidth.

      • Mateus Luz
        August 18, 2020 at 3:34 pm

        More than fair. The idea of one of the KS not kicking properly is frustrating, and the chances of it happening because of bad timing are enough to postpone it.
        Thanks for the quick answer!

  4. ThomasM
    August 17, 2020 at 11:04 pm

    “Most of which have been released by now!” – Rich, you are a gem.?

    Thank you for the note about the screens taking longer to produce right now. That really helps me to understand the situation.

    I was actually expecting to read about how the vacations and headspaces. Maybe that could be a Pathcast topic at some point.

    • ThomasM
      August 17, 2020 at 11:07 pm

      Bah, that question mark was supposed to be a grin. Sorry about that!

      • richt
        August 17, 2020 at 11:30 pm

        No worries!

    • richt
      August 17, 2020 at 11:33 pm

      Yeah, if the Trio wanted to go into their own thoughts on taking the break, that’s cool. I just wasn’t going to get too much into a lot of personal info from more than a half-dozen people here in the MMN blog, y’know?

      • ThomasM
        August 18, 2020 at 3:04 pm

        That’s completely understandable. I really like reading such updates since it lets me know the creators I like to support are doing okay. In the end, I know its just me and my FOMO having a day.:)

  5. Adam Rice
    August 18, 2020 at 6:28 am

    It was mentioned in the last Aberrant Kickstarter update that Aberrant Core has moved to the Layout stage, but that hasn’t been reflected in the Monday Meeting updates. Would you be able to clarify? Much appreciated!

    • richt
      August 18, 2020 at 3:58 pm

      You might have noticed from the MMN blog a few weeks ago that a few events impacted Mirthful Mike’s life after the KS update went out. He’ll get to the TC: Aberrant layout when he can. Thanks-

      • Adam Rice
        August 21, 2020 at 11:17 pm

        I had missed that; my sincere condolences to Mike.

        • richt
          August 24, 2020 at 11:24 am

          Thanks, I will pass them along.

  6. Conor
    August 18, 2020 at 11:10 am

    Sorry for the duplicate question; any word on Geist Condition Cards?

    • richt
      August 18, 2020 at 1:34 pm

      We’re not working on them now, but those are very much a quick jaunt through the project process steps, so expect that once they are up there that they’ll run right to proofing pretty fast. Thanks!

      • Conor
        August 18, 2020 at 6:00 pm

        Thanks so much for the heads up, and for everything ye do.

Comments are closed.