One of the things we talked about today during the Monday Meetings was something brought up in discussing last week’s MMN blog and also in Eddy’s AMA last week, IIRC. That is, how do folks get their work noticed and published and become part of these RPG writing teams? Basically, how do you go from fan to game creator?
And when I say fan, I’m using it in the same way that I’d use it for myself, not as something with the negative “fanatic” connotations Justin Achilli so despises. I am a fan of Justified, Game of Thrones (both book and HBO versions), and Sherlock, in the sense that I enjoy watching/reading them and then looking further into how they are made, or into other folks’ analyses of the material. I might buy material connected to those worlds, or download their opening credits (that’s actually true) so I can replay them because they’re so cool and they remind me of the original thing I enjoyed.
I was a fan of J.R.R. Tolkien and Michael Moorcock, and so when I began playing D&D back before there were inside toilets, I naturally was drawn to those elements and included them in my own D&D setting I made to DM in. Because that’s the thing with tabletop RPGs, not only can you write fan-fic, or buy music that is like the game you like, you can actually choose to create adventures and stories for your gaming friends set in that world you all enjoy. In fact, that’s the whole point of our hobby! Tabletop RPGs are designed to enable a fan consumer to become a fan creator; what other entertainment sources encourage that kind of engagement?
As a fan of Marvel Comics , I “wrote” and “illustrated” new comics with Spiderman or Daredevil when I was a kid. I could maybe have shared them with my buddies, but that’s about it. My “comics” weren’t real comics, my friends couldn’t buy them in the local 7/11 like real comics, and I surely was not Stan Lee or Jack Kirby. And we all knew that. But later, when I ran my first group of friends through my first dungeon, we knew that was what one of us was supposed to do in order to have fun. I had to create something new, in order for the game to work. That’s some powerful magic right there, and it explains why we get abso-friggin’-lutely obsessed with our favorite RPG. We have put so much effort in and are immersed in it. It also explains why the natural progression for most tabletop RPG creators is from fan to fan creator to professional creator.
I could do a whole different post about self-publishing as a creator of your own stuff, but this blog today is about making the jump from fan to a professional who wants to work on the very games that they fell in love with as gamers. In general, follow the usual advice of studying your craft, submitting according to the company you are applying to’s guidelines, etc. But also, consider that somewhat more fluid progression we just mentioned that is part of tabletop RPGs. There are so many ways to engage with the current professionals over the company’s social media that allow you to build up an awareness in their minds of what you have to offer beyond a writing (or art) sample. Developers and art directors get so many submissions, standing out in any good way is a huge increase in the chance you’ll be remembered.
As you post, think about what you are saying and how you say it. Not only are there people from the company reading, there is every chance that they are judging your post on content, including how well you write, and attitude. If your posts are the kind that build up the game and the community, you are already showing that you value the same things that this company does. If your critical posts are well thought out, well written, and don’t insult the current creators (you know, the ones you want to talk with further?), your points will be given a chance even if you are talking about something that doesn’t work as currently written. I hired Rose Bailey into White Wolf based in part on the fact that I remembered her forum postings. I didn’t always agree with her points, and still don’t, but those posts demonstrated that she was someone who I could discuss things with. That was a big boost for her when we finally had an official interview.
And Rose submitted because she was a White Wolf fan. As were Eddy Webb, Stew Wilson, John Morke, Holden Shearer and David Hill, to name a few of our current developers.
So let us know who you are and what you can do, and let us know that you’re someone we’d actually like to try working with and we’re far more likely to give you a shot.
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And now, the BLURBS!
Just as the Deluxe V20 Lore of the Clans Kickstarter winds down, Fast Eddy Webb will interviewed by Dan Davenport and chatting at the RPGNet chat on Thursday at 8pm EDT. If you missed Eddy’s AMA (ask me anything) on the White Wolf subreddit, here’s your chance to get those last minute V20 Lore of the Clans questions out to him, or really anything you want to chat about, V20, Pugmire, Sherlock Holmes, or anything else Eddy-related!
The link to the chat is: http://tinyurl.com/rpgnetchat
Huge congratulations to C.A. Sulieman and his fantastic writing team on Mummy: the Curse‘s Book of the Deceived which has been nominated for an Origins Award! Mummy has been blessed, not cursed, with some great writing as this second nomination for the line in two years certainly proves!
Last chance to grab a few, and only a few, extra copies from some of our Kickstarters, so please email lisat.onyxpath@gmail.com and our lovely office manager Lisa will help you. We have Prestige Edition Mummy: the Curse, and the Mummy Screen. Deluxe V20 Children of the Revolution, and the Deluxe Hunters Hunted 2, and the V20 Screen. We’ll have to do this on a first come, first serve basis, so let us know asap. Lisa has been working away through your emails and getting back to everyone with costs and shipping prices.
The Deluxe V20 Lore of the Clans Kickstarter is in its last week and starting to heat up, passing goals that will add Appendixes to the book itself and Bloodlines to a separate extra book called, logically enough, Lore of the Bloodlines. But the Stretch Goals are just one part of the fun, as backers have been sending in selfies and liking our Facebook page in order to boost the Achievements counters and get some extra rewards! If you want to see how the V20 Clans and Bloodlines are given more depth and expanded on to the present day, check it out at: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/deluxe-v20-lore-of-the-clans
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And now, new project status updates!:
DEVELOPMENT STATUS FROM ROLLICKING ROSE (Projects in bold have changed listings)
First Draft (The first phase of a project that is about the work being done by writers, not dev prep)
- W20 Pentex Employee Indoctrination Handbook (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition) (In open development for backers.)
- M20 Book of Secrets (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
- Secrets of the Covenants (Vampire: The Requiem 2nd Edition) – In Open Development
- Exalted 3rd Novel by Matt Forbeck (Exalted 3rd Edition)
- M20 Anthology (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
- Pugmire Gen con Materials (Be a Good Dog.)
- CtL anthology (Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition)
- WoD nWoD 2e core (World of Darkness 2nd Edition)
- The Realm (Exalted 3rd Edition)
- Dragon-Blooded (Exalted 3rd Edition)
- Scarred Lands Player’s Guide: Ghelspad
Redlines
- Mummy Fiction Anthology (Mummy: the Curse)
- Wraith: the Oblivion 20th Anniversary Edition
- W20 Changing Ways (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
- Cursed Necropolis: Rio (Mummy: the Curse)
- Demon Storytellers’ Guide (Demon: the Descent)
- Beckett’s Jyhad Diary (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
- Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition, featuring the Huntsmen Chronicle (Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition)
- nWoD Hurt Locker (World of Darkness 2nd Edition)
Second Draft
- W20 Shattered Dreams (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
- Arms of the Chosen (Exalted 3rd Edition)
- Mage: the Awakening 2nd Edition, featuring the Fallen World Chronicle (Mage: the Awakening) – In Open Development
- Demon Translation Guide (Demon: the Fallen and Demon: the Descent)
Development
- Promethean: the Created 2nd Edition, featuring the Firestorm Chronicle (Promethean: the Created) Being playtested.
- “Sardonyx” System Rules (Base rules set for Scion and the Trinity Continuum)
- V20 Black Hand: Guide to the Tal’Mahe’Ra (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
Editing
- M20 How do you DO that? (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
- MtC Dreams of Avarice
- V20 Red List (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
- V20 Ghouls (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
- Beast: the Primordial core book (Beast: The Primordial)
- W20 Novel by Mike Lee (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
Development (post-editing)
ART DIRECTION FROM MIRTHFUL MIKE
In Art Direction
- M20 How Do You Do That – More sketches in from Van der Mewe. Gonna go rattle some cages on some late artists.
- Dreams of Avarice – Awaiting artnotes from Colin.
- Beast – Art directed. Working on design stuff this week.
- Red List – Out notes out to KMJ.
In Layout
- M20 Screen – Knocking that out this week… I swear.
- Gen Con Stuff – Big 12′ banner done(ish). Almost all the buttons are done(ish). Working out some kinks for the staff shirts. Using parts of the banner collage for the brochure collage… so epic win.
In Proofing
- M20 – Second proof with Phil.
- VDA 20 Screen – Soon.
- Red List – Wha…? I know where the art is going and we had final text… so I layed it out. When the art comes in, I’ll plug it in and we can hit 2nd proof.
- V20 Lore of the Clans – Adding Eddy’s changes.
- BotW 20 – Should have a sample with finished cover this week. The foil is looking really sweet.
- Ex 3 Anthology – Awaiting updated text file
- WtF 2 – Reviewing PoD proofs.
- Sothis Ascends – Awaiting PoD proof this week.
- Gothic Icons – PoD proofs ordered.
Special
- Dark Eras – Holding pattern.
- VDA20 – Off for indexing.
- Exalted 3rd Edition – RT here: Maria is still doing this phase of the layout. Saw some awesome sketches for the layout + art of the special chapter. We weren’t able to do these earlier without Maria having an idea of how the rest of the book and the actual text worked together.
- Wraith 20 – Awaiting art notes for the book. All the logos from Cobb are in.
Other Stuff
REASON TO DRINK: Mighty Matt McElroy had a tough return from his 2,768th convention last week.
Comments
68 responses to “We Started Like You. [Monday Meeting Notes]”
I’ve been meaning to ask about this, but I keep forgetting. Is there any way we could get a historical setting for Beast as a Kickstarter stretch goal? Maybe something the size of Heirs to Hell with two or three different eras? It just drives my OCD nuts that Beast is going to get released before Dark Eras, but isn’t going to get a chapter in it.
Maybe a stretch goal for the KS. Got an era in mind?
Hm. 1950s USA/USSR could be interesting – the Cold War, fear of sympathisers, fear of nuclear annihilation.
1890s Japan, around the time Lafcadio Hearn started collecting youkai stories.
c.1100-800 BCE Greece, the Greek Dark Ages, following the end of the Bronze Age.
1890s Japan is a winner of an idea. Superb.
Love the idea of 1890s Japan.
If that doesn’t make it, then I would go for 1660s(or even earlier) Caribbean. Buccaneers, sea monsters, gold, angry native spirits, and rum. What more could you want in n historical setting?
I’m gonna have to second that suggestion of 1890s Japan when Lafcadio Hearn was around.
Or maybe Mesopotamia after the end of the Babylonian Empire (and thus, Hammurabi’s reign).
I can try to think of a couple.
There’s Ulster Cycle Ireland featuring Cuchulain as a Namtaru. It’s close enough to Generic European Medieval Fantasy to add stock monsters like dragons, but I think it’d have its own unique twist.
There’s also the Uruk period. It’s got quite a few monsters in it and it’d be an excuse to add Pazuzu to the gameline. Everyone loves Pazuzu.
I most definitely third that 1890s Japan, and second the Mesopotamia and Greek Dark Ages.
They all really sound like very rich settings to explore Beast in.
Ancient Babylon or Greece for an older Era seens nice. For a more recent one I still have no idea. Also I would like a kind of appendix with Beast sidebars for the Eras presented in Dark Eras corebook and Companion.(assuming they won’t already be there).
I think that Beast Dark Eras would actually work really well as crossover Eras, given the information we already have on Beast. My first thought is that the Trail of Tears would make an excellent crossover setting for Beast and Geist. I could also see an Era set in classical Greece as either a standalone setting, or perhaps as a crossover setting with either Hunter or Changeling.
+1 for 1890’s japan era
=w=; oh the things that could come out of it.
o.o; imagines touhou crossover…..
im thinking I might pick up Beast if such an era ends up being released.
So Red List seems to be near coming out GREAT…Maybe mid to late MayÉ
Slated for a June release.
I’ve been bumping into David Hill and Matt McFarland on Facebook and Google Plus, and I want to say that their posts are usually among the interesting I catch in the day. So, even if you aren’t trying to get a job, I’d say it’s worth it.
I agree pesonally, although once we are talking about personal social media, I don’t give advice or suggest anything because as freelance devs they are not posting officially for Onyx Path on their own accounts. I wouldn’t want to blur what is a very real line of demarcation because people already wonder if they are speaking for the company on their personal accounts.
Oh yeah, that was understood ahead of time.
You’d be surprised how many times I’m told I need to censor “my staff” because of things they post on their personal social media.
I know this and understand this, but I still appreciate you posting it, Rich.
There’s been a few things posted on social media that…well…kinda made my fists swell up a bit with anger. Had to walk away from the computer for a bit. But I understand that Onyx Path is in no way represented by ideas posted by writers/artists who work for you.
What is this special chapter in exalted.
And what does it means that its now under special instead of layout??
If you look at the previous meeting notes, Exalted has been under the “special” part for quite a few weeks now, actually.
I guess it’s because the book is not handled by Mirthful Mike ? And also because of the special chapter, maybe…
There’s a chapter that is designed differently than the rest of the book. EX3 updates are under Special because the Mirthful One is not working on EX3 but we want to give updates somewhere on the blog.
Indexing seems to take a whole lot of time 🙁
Is there work done at that stage beside the p.XX to edit and working InDesign to build the actual index?
Yes, significant work that is more than using any layout program’s functionality. That’s how we did the Indexes back in the White Wolf days and pretty much folks agree that they were…limited in usability. Now we hire people who know how to create an index on a professional level, since V20 I believe, and they are much more useful.
Hi !
Can you please tell what the changes are that transform the GMC book into a nWoD 2nd Ed ?
I thought you just do some cut & paste and thats it, but now it seems that it takes some time for development …
Please tell us what we can expect of the book !
Regards
Discobutcher
I’ll let Rose delve into that one of these days. Suffice it to say that WoD2nd is much more than the sum of its parts and pulls the best from the WoD bluebook, God Machine Chronicle, and new stuff we felt needed to go in there to create a complete intro to WoD2.
Is there any news about the bonus pdf related to V20 Dark Ages Vampire? Me and my players are craving for it ?
We only post projects in the update list once they are being written, so it _is_ being worked on but at the preliminary stages.
Any word on when the Werewolf: The Forsaken Second Edition hardcover will be available?
Very soon indeed unless I find a major flaw in the two PoD proofs mentioned in the Updates above. Keep an eye on our social media, and/or join our Onyx Path Mailing List there on the right of the page to get notices direct to you of when books go on sale.
Woot! Can’t wait! 😀
While I’ve been getting freelance gigs in from time to time (since 2013), I’m still the fan I was when I started. OPP never fails to impress me with the quality of the people it hires and the material it produces.
Why, what a gentleman. Thanks!
Hehe. I did indeed start as a fan, though probably a better description would be “a gobby wee shite on the old White Wolf forums.” But I was gobby out of love for the game, and it did mean that I at least had some contact with Ethan, so he knew my name and that I could write when I asked for work.
And you didn’t piss Ethan off enough that he wrote you off. Which I have seen happen. He is the nicest guy, and was one of WW’s best developers in terms of his online communication, until he decides you aren’t worth the trouble.
I started out as a fan. New Bremen and the other chats, the Wolf Packs, Wolfspoor, the (unofficial) WW Wiki… I’ve done a lot over the years.
Most notably, back around 2003 I started — and got pretty far along — the Trinity Storyteller Handbook, on which Stew Wilson was one of my writers. That, and my 2005 pitch for a new TU, were part of how I got the job as the new developer.
Then when Onyx Path was launching, I was asked to lend my “””expertise””” running various WW fan sites to help get this one off the ground.
The rest is history.
The part about engaging with the material but in a way that really helps out the publisher? That was Ian and Wolfspoor.
I saw no mention of Art of Changing Breeds, is it finished?
Not worked on this week. If it was finished we’d be talking about getting the PDF to backers.
Thanks for the reply!
I started as fan. I got into a Twitter-argument with David Hill about a logo and now I’ve written for two of my favorite-ever properties. Sorta the freelancer equivalent of a screaming match that ends with the participants making out.
Yeah, that’s the same thing that happened with Michael Goodwin and I, actually.
Don’t make out with the devs. You don’t know where they’ve been.
As someone who’s beginning to actually write and publish RPG material this was a nice blog post. Thank you for the advise Mr. Thomas.
Go Phil go! Proof those mages!
Thanks! Hope it helps!
I started as a fan, too, and because I love to write, I started a blog, Read the Damn Book, in which I discussed Classic World of Darkness books. Then, The Onyx Path had an open call for writers, and my girlfriend (who is a wonderful,loving person) talked me into submitting. I never really expected much, but I worked really hard on that submission revising it constantly and finally submitted it. Then, I waited…and waited. Late last year, I got an email from Stew Wilson and offer to write for WtA. I can’t even begin to say how much I have loved working on a book for him. I just submitted my final draft a couple weeks ago.
I know that the Gentleman Gamer also does freelance work for the Onyx Path as well.
Never underestimate the importance of a significant other who pushes you to submit. If you have one, you already are a step ahead of lots of other creators. I might never have gotten the guts to submit my first illustrations to White Wolf Magazine if not for a kick in the pants from my girlfriend.
Thanks for the focus in this weeks meeting notes. This is something I think about often, but find I keep going in circles rather than come to a conclusion about how to go about doing it. I will put your advice to use!
Great! It’d be awesome if the blog helps you get published. Thanks!
I started as a fan. Ran/played all of the OWoD games like crazy, had a gigantic interconnected world, and then in 1997 responded to an all-call for writers and THEY HAVEN’T LET ME GO SINCE.
MWA-Ha-Ha!
Do we need to organize a rescue party?
I started as a fan. Vampire caught my notice, but it was Wraith (and Matthew McFarland’s essays on such) that got me into gaming as a hobby. I got noticed by Michael Goodwin on the Exalted forums and John Chambers liked my writing sample enough to give me work. Made the jump over to nWoD and the wider array of OPP products in 2012, haven’t looked back since.
Also, Neall popped up out of nowhere and helped carry boxes to our Gen Con booth one year, which was greatly appreciated. Now if he could resolve his Salubri obsession so we could finally kill them off…
Yeah. I think I first got on the radar by reviewing Ascension books online and talking to Malcolm Sheppard a lot, then Actual Play threads. I finally got asked to do a writing submission by Joe Carriker, and got put on a book that was actively trying out lots of new people.
I was pretty sure DaveB just appeared out of the ether because we needed him.
I’d approached John M about writing for Exalted and had sent a few samples through, but had to withdraw from that because of real life time pressures that cropped up.
About 6 months later, I was lucky enough to be referred to Stew Wilson by a friend. Stew wanted an Aussie to write about Australia in CB20 and my mate didn’t have familiarity with WtA. A few thousand words turned into a few thousand more, followed by more Werewolf books (both flavours) and then the chance to spread my wings into baseline WoD, Demon, and now AEon territory.
Which is a really good point- sometimes what you thought would happen, like which game line you wanted to write for, doesn’t quite. Staying flexible is a great quality that makes it much more likely you’ll get a shot writing _something_ and then you can aim more towards your favorites.
A very poignant article, and very apt. Great advice for every creative gamer who’d like to take the leap for the opportunity to walk the path.
I took a leap last year, got noticed through exactly the hard work and engagement that RichT describes above, and will be proud to see my creation become a reality later this year.
Fantastic! Congrats!
Hello everyone,
Very interesting piece there Richt. If I’m being honest, I’d love to follow up on that advice, but, I’d be too time deprived to actually help you guys in any serious writing capacity. So, I try to help in other ways. Mostly by participating in a positive manner and helping find issues when the previews comes my way.
Now, on to my three questions for this week:
1 – A direct follow up to your topic. Are there others tasks, Read: besides writing, for which you would like to have people volunteer or even join OP? If so, which ones and how would one manifest his/her interest?
2 – My beloved and I are always going around and thinking “we should go to a con”. But, we never really know the dates early enough to coordinate. So, I figured, what better place than here to ask!? What is the RPG con that you would recommend? I’m personally interested in finally meeting the OP staff in person for an interesting chat and my beloved is mostly interested in discovering new RPGs. Anything comes to mind?
3 – Just how interested would OP be in ideas for a new IP? I’ve had an idea for some time now which I think would be interesting to play and might tailor to an untapped demographic. I know I will likely never have time to develop it myself, and so, I’d be more than happy to share the idea with OP.
2) GenCon is the best bang for your buck in terms of meeting OPP stuff, I think. A bunch of us go and remain friendly* the whole time.
*Friendly may or may not be a synonym for drunk.
So in reply in order:
1- Yes. Although we have no full time gigs available right now, we’d be glad to hear from folks who’d be interested in freelance layout, editing, indexing, marketing, electronic publishing (not PDFs), and app development/creation. In all these cases though, it’s not a learn while you earn thing, but a situation where you know this area already and are crazy enough to be willing to apply your knowledge for much, much worse rates than you’d be offered in the real world.
2- As Matt says, GenCon is still our big one. The most number of our creators show up there, and Onyx still considers this our big con of the year, so we’re all there. We are looking at expanded presence at Mid Winter in January, and trying to get to PAX East.
3- If submitted with the right submission form, I’m very interested in possible creative relationships with game creators. Generally, we’re not so much into the “we’ll publish your completed game”, but who knows? It depends in all cases if the project makes sense based on our bandwidth and other releases.
1 – I would be crazy enough, but I can’t say I have a lot of experience in those specific fields. With the exception of editing where my five years in QA (video games) might come in handy. I do have a trained eye for inconsistencies.
2 – Much obliged to the both of you. We’ll look into those.
3 – Truth be told, it would be more of a pitch than a “complete game”. I could most certainly whip up a 1000 word as per your guidelines on it if that’s the kind of “submission” you were referring to.
I met Matt McFarland through a tabletop gaming-related web forum we both frequented back in the early ’00s. I ended up responding to a Mage: The Awakening writer all-call in which the emphasized plea (as I remember it) was “writers who can hit a f***ing deadline.” As I was reasonably confident I could do that and was (and am) a really huge fan of Awakening, I raised my hand and have ended up doing rather a lot of work under him over the years. I’ve worked with other devs, too, but it’s rather alarming how many projects I’ve worked on with Matt over the years.
Matt has almost entirely broken me of my urge to throw random movie quotes into my first drafts just to make sure he’s paying attention (which is why you might have seen us teasing each other about that in the comments section some weeks back regarding the Demon Translation Guide). I’m pretty good about hitting deadlines and following a style guide, though, and that counts for a lot in the freelance writing world. (Seriously, though, turn in your drafts on time, or if you’re going to have an unavoidable delay, let the developer know ahead of time and keep it to an absolute minimum.)
How likely is it to be ready in PoD by Wednesday? Because I wanted to order it in tandem with Werewolf: The Forsaken, Second Edition, but if it’s a choice between ordering them together or ordering WTF2 before the coupon expires, I’m afraid there’s only one way I can jump on that.
maybe I should put this up as a thread instead =/ but im curious internet: what led up to your first experience with WoD/exalted/scion/trinity/other WW/OP game line.
for me:
exalted: was in the 2nd anime club in high school (the first one flopped due to problems w/ soda spills) saw guy from my first period. cue talk about anime and later favorite games. one day he brings in the 2e core and shows me it when our teacher let us do whatever we chose to do. that was roughly early 2012 =)
VTM: again in high school. tried to set up a trading card game/Tabletop game club. was asking around, met latin teacher and we started to talk about games we enjoyed. she then off handedly mentioned something like D&D where you played as vampires. 4 months later I get bored w/ neverwinter nights and decide to look into another rpg that could run on a crappy pc. found bloodlines (someone should make a sequel, one w/ access to all the clans instead of just the camarilla), then I realized the licenser was also the same company that made exalted. been a fan of vtm ever since (at least from a distance. q.q no one in city plays it from what I can tell).
so what about you internet? any more interesting stories about how you came across your favorite WW/OP products?