Houses of the Moon

Open Development, Werewolf: The Forsaken

You asked for it, you got it. Tribes won out by 44 to 12. A stronger showing for Wolf-Blooded, which is good — don’t worry about what the majority wants, vote with your heart. A reminder: something that loses a vote will still come up in the blog. It’s just going to take a while.

Tribe is a big part of being a werewolf. Through the lens of The Wolf Must Hunt, they’re slightly awkward; both tribe and Auspice answer the question of “how you hunt”. Tribe speaks to the werewolf’s character while her Auspice is a duty passed down from the moon, but though they approach the question from different angles, they answer the same question.

We’re shifting the focus of tribes towards answering a related question: “What do you hunt?” Auspice answers “how”, and tribe answers “what.” Each tribe has chosen their own prey, the prey that they consider the most dangerous threat in the world. When a werewolf marshals her pack against her chosen prey, it’s Siskur-Dah, not just a hunt but a duty, a sacred thing.

  • Blood Talons know that the most dangerous prey is other werewolves. They believe that the true hunt is the challenge of matching wits and teeth and claws against another of their kind. Often, they hunt the Pure — often, but not always.
  • Bone Shadows know that the most dangerous prey comes from the Shadow. They believe that the true hunt is continuing the duty left by urfarah, hunting spirits that do not remain where Father Wolf decreed they should.
  • Hunters in Darkness know that the most dangerous prey is the Shartha. They believe that the true hunt is tracking down these mockeries of flesh and spirit — and possibly doing what urfarah could not.
  • Iron Masters know that the most dangerous prey is humanity. They believe that the true hunt is as much against institutions and groups as it is people — though they’re happy to tear out throats when the time comes.
  • Storm Lords know that the most dangerous prey is the Urged and Claimed. They believe that the true hunt is to harry these unholy blends of flesh and spirit. it’s not always easy to see who is Urged, but the Iminir always seem to know. 

A werewolf’s tribe doesn’t have a formal organization; like all of uratha society a tribe is secondary to the pack. Tribe members take brief breaks from their packs to meet with one another. While the power of the tribe comes from the firstborn who blesses it, the organization among werewolves is bottom-up, decentralized cells that come together to trade information and share secrets.

As I intimated in the comments last week: Ghost Wolves aren’t a tribe, not really. Each tribe has their own prey and their own sacred hunt, their Siskur-Dah. To paraphrase Trainspotting, Ghost Wolves chose not to choose a tribe. They chose something else. What? Well, that’s a question for a different blog post…

This weeks’ music is The Jam’s Eton Rifles. Banding together against a superior foe — that’s the whole point of the tribes.

Let’s have a change of pace. Both of the questions so far have had one “big” thing, something that most people latch on to. This week, I’m going with an even playing-field. Lodges or Wolf-Blooded?

  122 comments for “Houses of the Moon

  1. Arcane
    March 28, 2014 at 6:40 pm

    1) I like the greater distinction and breakdown of the Tribes. They now feel much more wholly their own rather than an extension of Auspices.
    2)I don’t how you could make the Iron Masters any cooler, but you did it. That is freaking awesome!

    • Two-Bears-High-Fiving
      March 29, 2014 at 12:41 am

      I love focusing and differentiating the tribes SO MUCH, but I don’t think “what you hunt” is the way to do it (not that I expect/hope someone reads this and then tears the setting bible in half). It’s so… tunnel-vision. The tribes disagree on which one of murderous threats arranged against them is the MOST dangerous? When a group of Claimed has a pack cornered in a farmhouse does the Blood Talon say to each others, “Hey. They’ve killed Alice and Jim and they’ve started throwing Molotovs in here, but at least they aren’t other werewolves, am I right?”

      It also says so little about a werewolf. If you got 100 people and asked them if humans, werewolves, spirits, urged or hosts were the biggest threat, I wouldn’t join a tribe with everyone else that chose spirits. I’d join a tribe with the people that shares my values, outlooks and beliefs about how we should live. Picking the same “favoured enemy” isn’t going to help me figure out who those people are. MAYBE we’ll have similar reasoning behind our choices, but that’s it.

      Could someone please show me the potential here? I bet getting on the idigam chronicles bandwagon is more fun than being an edition grump.

      • Stew
        March 29, 2014 at 12:24 pm

        Who the tribe hunts, and what their beliefs are about the most dangerous prey is not all that a tribe is. It’s a way of differentiating the tribes, and of informing their character, not all that a tribe is. We’re not making the tribes two-dimensional, we’re adding a new dimension.

      • Kelly
        April 10, 2014 at 8:37 pm

        I agree. I think the “what you hunt” is far less important than “why you hunt”. Maybe a better fusion of the two? The later can easily lead into the former.
        “We police the world of humans; which is why we tend to be the best at hunting them.”
        Etc. A subtle focus shift.

  2. amaterasu
    March 28, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    Storm Lords seems almost a let-down, and I could see swapping it with Blood Talons, but probably because I like Storm Lords way more than Blood Talons and see them taking the “most dangerous” prey as their own.

    Vote: Wolf-Blooded

    • Stew
      March 28, 2014 at 7:14 pm

      I buggered up the Storm Lords description — I’ve got three or four full setting bibles in my head. I’ve gone back and fixed it up, hopefully it gives them some more punch.

      • amaterasu
        March 28, 2014 at 7:18 pm

        Yes, much. 🙂

        So the spirit-possessed. I can see them working in tandem with Bone Shadows and Iron Masters in that.

        I like it.

        • Stew
          March 29, 2014 at 12:24 pm

          Exactly. 🙂

  3. batro
    March 28, 2014 at 6:49 pm

    Lodges !

    Can you explain more the goal of the Storm Lords ? Why Urged and Ridden ?

    • Stew
      March 28, 2014 at 7:15 pm

      As mentioned above, I buggered up the description. I’ve updated it. Hope that helps.

  4. Ramiro
    March 28, 2014 at 6:52 pm

    I really like that the concepts are more “focused”… good stuff! I personally would like to read about Lodges sir!! Saludos

  5. darkfool
    March 28, 2014 at 6:53 pm

    Really enjoying the updates. Thank you. My vote is for wolf blooded please

  6. March 28, 2014 at 6:56 pm

    Wow! Great re-imagining. I can’t wait to see thoughts on how multi-tribal packs operate.

    I also want to know how Idigam tie in to each tribe’s Siskur-Dah…. since it is the Idigam Chronicle.

    Finally, Lodges!

    • Stew
      March 29, 2014 at 12:25 pm

      Are you familiar with Iain M. Banks’ work? He has a line near the start of Excession that’s applicable here. 😉

        April 8, 2014 at 5:09 pm

        Oooooh I love the Culture novels. Are the Idigam an Out of Context Problem, then?

  7. Atavist
    March 28, 2014 at 6:59 pm

    I never wanted to play anything other than a Bone Shadow before, now I can’t decide what I’d like more! Great change.

    One vote for lodges.

  8. shkspr1048
    March 28, 2014 at 6:59 pm

    Wolf-blooded, all the way!

    Also, if each tribe is at least partially defined by a specific “Most Dangerous Prey”, does that mean new tribes can be created around new types of prey?

    • Stew
      March 28, 2014 at 7:10 pm

      What makes a tribe is an interesting question, and we do look at some possible answers.

  9. Satchel
    March 28, 2014 at 7:00 pm


    Is what makes a magath likely to be given some attention in the book’s explanation of spirits? That’s seemed to be a bit of a tricky border to understand non-holistically.

  10. christian a
    March 28, 2014 at 7:07 pm

    Uh. Can I vote for wolf-blooded lodges?

    Oh, ok then. Wolf-blooded, please.

    • Stew
      March 28, 2014 at 7:27 pm

      That’s the kinda hard decision I was hoping for. 🙂

  11. AnaMizuki
    March 28, 2014 at 7:31 pm

    Me like, a lot. Much easier to see how in a society based mostly on induvidual packs, the tribes would be based on an unifying factor like that. It also gives each of Uratha’s foes equal focus.

    Wolf-blooded is my vote.

  12. Belial
    March 28, 2014 at 7:31 pm

    Wolf-blooded, please.

    Also, the prey allocation for the Storm Lords still seems a bit awkward. So when a spirit crosses over, it’s prey for the Bone Shadows, but once it crawls into a human the Bone Shadows lose interest and the Storm Lords perk up?

    • Arcane
      March 28, 2014 at 7:36 pm

      Considering that the game is packfocused, it probably actually means that the Bone Shadow was taking the lead on this scenario, but once it became a Spirit-possessed the lead passes to the Lord. You let the expert lead, but the Bone Shadow would still be there helping.

    • Arcane
      March 28, 2014 at 7:36 pm

      Considering that the game is pack focused, it probably actually means that the Bone Shadow was taking the lead on this scenario, but once it became a Spirit-possessed the lead passes to the Lord. You let the expert lead, but the Bone Shadow would still be there helping.

    • Stew
      March 29, 2014 at 12:28 pm

      Not really. Which tribe takes the lead in a given Siskur-Dah is one thing, but a tribe’s chosen prey is a longer-term prospect. Don’t think of the Storm Lords as being the ones who take charge midway through a hunt lead by the Iron Masters or Bone Shadows.

      Think of them as a tribe of George Smileys of the Forsaken, sniffing out spirit cults and those humans who are long-term prospects for spirits, rooting out those spirits that a Bone Shadow would miss and the individual humans that an Iron Master would overlook.

      • Raymer
        March 30, 2014 at 12:45 am


  13. Scarbringer
    March 28, 2014 at 7:34 pm

    I really like it!

    But let me say something about the storm lords:
    each tribe have something to hunt and every prey have something in common with the related tribe, the blood talons fight the pure tribes (they are warrior ok)
    bone shadows take care about the spiritual land (I freaking love the description)
    Hunter in darkness tear apart the sharta (perfect with their tribal ban) and Iron master stalks dangerous human and other ( sounds REALLY awesome).
    And the storm lords… well, they are the ”alphas among the alphas” the warleaders, they are the ”Allow no one to witness or tend your weakness”.. so..
    It will be a more specific correlation between the ridden and the iminir?
    I can understand the other but, for the iminir, WHY they believe that the true hunt is to harry these unholy blends of flesh and spirit ?

    Just a question for my favorite tribe 🙂 . Thanks for your amazing work.

    Wolf blooded next!

    • Stew
      March 29, 2014 at 12:30 pm

      See my reply above. The Iminir hunt creatures of secrets and lies, shining the truth on conspiracy and warped hybrids.

  14. Growls
    March 28, 2014 at 7:35 pm

    I’ll rather take a look at Lodges

  15. reseru
    March 28, 2014 at 7:35 pm

    Who hunts the Idigam?


    • Arcane
      March 28, 2014 at 7:38 pm

      You know, it’s funny? I was just asking that.

      • DaveB
        March 29, 2014 at 4:20 am

        The Idigam are an outside context problem.

        • March 29, 2014 at 5:10 pm

          Full stop. 🙂

    • Belial
      March 28, 2014 at 7:40 pm

      The tribe that spent most of recorded history very, very bored.

    • Stew
      March 29, 2014 at 12:31 pm

      What DaveB said.

  16. Saibot
    March 28, 2014 at 7:38 pm

    Nice one again! Although I am with some other users here and cannot quite see how it all fits together for the Storm Lords, but I guess this also is because we do not see the whole picture yet.

    Anyway, my vote is for Lodges!

  17. Afro Luigi
    March 28, 2014 at 7:40 pm

    I’m not a big fan of werewolves myself, but I am enjoying what you guys have been doing with it!

    My vote goes to wolf-blooded!

  18. Octavo
    March 28, 2014 at 7:45 pm

    I’m very much liking where the Tribes are going. The Iron Masters and Storm Lords are my favorite. 🙂
    Question though: Are the tribes retaining their distinctive oaths?

    I vote for the Wolf-Blooded.

  19. Scarbringer
    March 28, 2014 at 7:56 pm

    What about the pure tribes?

    wolf blooded !

    • Stew
      March 29, 2014 at 12:31 pm

      The pure tribes are… a different matter

      • Christian A
        March 29, 2014 at 12:55 pm

        I would assume that they all hunt werewolves (the Forsaken, to be specific) just as the Blood Talons, with them taking the thematic role of providing the other side of the Werewolf experience and all – but hey, I’m sure you’ve come up with something cool. 🙂

  20. Yossarian
    March 28, 2014 at 7:59 pm

    Wolf Blooded!

  21. Charlaquin
    March 28, 2014 at 8:08 pm

    Beautiful! Loving what I’m seeing. Wolf blooded would be great to see next!

  22. Ephsy
    March 28, 2014 at 8:10 pm

    Yeah, looks like Storm Lords got the “Hmm, what’s the antagonist we got left? Oh, yes, Ridden” end of the stick.

    For the ones who wanted to give some more focus to straight up human antagonists seems like with the focus of the Iron Masters there it should help.

    Screw Wolfbloods, I wanna see Lodges.

    • Stew
      March 29, 2014 at 12:32 pm

      I cover some more about the Storm Lords in my reply above.

  23. Dessembrae
    March 28, 2014 at 8:14 pm

    Stew, is there any chance you can throw us rabid (pun intended) werewolf fans a bone and perhaps contribute a bit to our now weekly discussions about these topics in the Werewolf section of the forum? Honestly, we can’t get enough of this stuff 🙂 I blame this all on the developers for throwing us such juicy tidbits.

    Also, I vote for Wolf-Blooded

    • Stew
      March 29, 2014 at 12:33 pm

      I read the forum when I can, but I’ll try to make a contribution more often than ‘never’.

  24. Phersus
    March 28, 2014 at 8:29 pm

    I suppose the answer to the question of who hunts the Idigam is all of them, together. As a pack. Your posts are seducing me back into werewolf, Stew. Nice work, great insight, fresh and cool ideas all around.

    My congratulations.

    Also: bring forth those Lodges!

  25. FrancoisCourroux
    March 28, 2014 at 8:55 pm

    And another vote for the Wolf Blooded.

    After all, the wolf is in the blood. So it’s very important to me.

  26. March 28, 2014 at 8:56 pm

    Wolf-Blooded #extraguitarriff

  27. Neall
    March 28, 2014 at 9:01 pm

    Wolf-blooded, absolutely.

  28. Shadowrender
    March 28, 2014 at 9:20 pm

    Sounds really interesting, I’m casting my vote for Lodges.

  29. Seidmadr
    March 28, 2014 at 9:21 pm


    Lodges are fun and all, but not really all that important.

  30. March 28, 2014 at 9:45 pm

    Good update. I like this take on Tribe. It helps make them something besides what felt to some extent a consolidation of Apocalypse Tribes like what Requiem did with Masquerade Clans. The issue is that Tribes were way more culturally based on some level, and the “distilled” nature didn’t help. This plus purposeful avoiding of something like moot made it so that Tribe felt superfluous compared to Auspice or Lodge to me. This helps a bit by adding similar philosophy that Requiem did with Clan. Not making tribes what old Tribes they replaced, but a big part of how you go about being a werewolf (in this case, your prey).

    I do think that Storm Lords feel like they got a bit shorted for some reason. I kind of have this idea that they will be leaders still, and with Hosts, Claimed, and other Uratha being kind of mockeries of flesh with man, I would think on trying to focus on the fact that the Claimed and Touched focus comes from an overall threshold thing. They coordinate others since what they specialize in is a source of two worlds a bit. Keep that leader and pack hunter vibe, but also helping making them not feel like Bone Shadow leftovers.

    As for vote, Lodge.

    And stuff.

    • Dataweaver
      March 29, 2014 at 1:23 am

      Could you maybe call them something other than “Tribes”? Because while I like what they do feel like, they don’t feel like tribes.

      Anyway, Lodges.

      • Stew
        March 29, 2014 at 12:34 pm

        We’re not in a position to change core vocabulary at this point, I’m afraid.

  31. Matt
    March 28, 2014 at 9:48 pm

    I wonder what this means for the Pure… Fire-Touched hunt the heretic, Ivory Claws hunt the impure, Predator Kings hunt…. Everything?

    Lodges were my least favorite part before, so they get my vote now.

    • Roads
      March 29, 2014 at 12:46 am

      They hunt the Weak, obviously.

  32. Darksider
    March 28, 2014 at 9:50 pm

    I’m throwing in a vote for Wolf-blooded also, I’m more interested in updates to that template than seeing how Lodges have been reworked.

  33. Joe B.
    March 28, 2014 at 10:01 pm

    Why, oh why, must the majority rule?

    I vote Wolf Blooded.

  34. Exploding Frogs
    March 28, 2014 at 10:33 pm

    I like the way that tribes are now not so much like competitive, fractious, territorial…well, tribes, as they are groups of like-minded specialists all basically working on the same team. Like, I get the impression that there’s going to be a lot less “this is our business and our territory. Don’t interfere. You wouldn’t know how to deal with this anyway” and a lot more “Bob, you’re the expert on this. What do? And do your buddies know anything we can use?” Lends itself a lot more readily to mixed-tribe games.

    Also raises the question of whether the Pure Tribes also focus their hunts like this, and if so, what their favored prey are…

    Oh, and my vote goes to Lodges.

  35. hoodedclaw
    March 28, 2014 at 10:35 pm

    This is great – it really gives a strong focus. But it does seem a touch like a few enemies/threats/prey were left out of the loop. We have

    b) shartha
    c) spirits
    d) man
    e) claimed/ridden (but is this not a derivation of threats from the shadow)?

    I see a few threats left out – just to think this through:
    f) other ephemeral beings
    g) other supernatural beings (probably avoided as too focused on crossoer)
    h) the idigam (probably saved as the external big baddy that unites the rest.

    Now – I am sure these were looked at at some early stage – but that the boneshadows have no focus on the (ever expanding) list of ephemeral threats seems slightly at odds with their earlier broad capabilities. And to me – the claimed/ridden seem a factor of spirits – but of course, I haven’t seen how you approach this. From what I have seen so far, it blows me away.

    I do wonder slightly at the choice for the Storm lords. If ridden/claimed were the Bone Shadows purview – & all ephemeral threats – that might free up the Storm Lords to hunt threats amongst both other supernaturals and the idigam? Thus reclaiming the theme of dominance – these being the ultimate threat to werewolf dominance as predators/lords of the hunt?

    I am just working through ideas – this is another book I will buy now. Oh – wolf-blooded.


    • Stew
      March 29, 2014 at 12:38 pm

      The Idigam are deliberately positioned as an outside context problem. Most other supernatural creatures aren’t prey for werewolves — they do their own thing, and only when they interfere with the Siskur-Dah are they a matter for werewolves.

      I expanded on the Storm Lords a bit in a response to a comment higher up, hopefully that clarifies things.

      • hoodedclaw
        March 29, 2014 at 4:45 pm

        Yes – this makes a lot of sense – we have not seen how you rejig the antagonists after all (and it sounds like this odd faction of conspiracies/claimed could be exactly another dimension of human threat the series implies) – it sounds intriguing.


  36. Aiden
    March 28, 2014 at 11:09 pm


    Well, I’m actually interested a lot now.

  37. Michael Murray
    March 28, 2014 at 11:23 pm

    Storm Lords entry makes little to no sense. Still, nice to see a blow by blow of each aspect of the Oath and how the tribes differ on them.

    I would like to see the Wolf-Blooded next.

  38. Leliel
    March 28, 2014 at 11:26 pm

    Wolf-blooded, please!

    And actually, it makes sense leaders get the Claimed. Who else is more emblematic of the wall between spirit and flesh breaking down than those born from the FUSION of spirit and flesh? Besides, the Claimed are unpredictable above all else, and that usually is countered with coordination.

  39. Nick W
    March 29, 2014 at 12:34 am

    Very interesting take, thanks for the teaser!

    My vote for next week is wolf-blooded, please.

  40. Two-Bears-High-Fiving
    March 29, 2014 at 12:44 am

    Oh, got caught up in my nerd-annoyance rant.

    Wolf-blooded, please!

  41. Roads
    March 29, 2014 at 12:52 am

    I always _wanted_ to like the Tribes, but I was never able to honestly figure out what to do with them, which was always really sad. It always felt like I was missing something, sense the Tribes alone suffered like this, even just this little bit here has made so much more clear, and for that I thank you.

    Also, Bone Shadow forever, but, the Hunters on Darkness are gaining ground again. This is pleasing to me.

    More importantly, once again my vote is to the Wolf-Blooded!

  42. Antares
    March 29, 2014 at 1:10 am

    My vote again: Wolf-blooded

    I am kind of sad that Tribes are not as well organized as Covenants or Orders. If a Pack of werewolf caught the eye of a Covenant or and Order they are more like to end up dead with no enough back up from other werewolfs. At least that is how I see it.

    My opinion on the new “what we will hunt” is kind of different from everyone. Storm Lords seams to be at top of everyone elses. While a Riden or Climed involves Spirtis and Humans they are covering Bone Shadows and Iron Masters at the same time, if we consider that shartha are kind of different but also at early stages function a little bit like Claimed it also covers Hunter in Darkness. I am curious about the rules for Spirtis claiming other things that aren’t humans… for example… werewolfs. So far there is no place in any books that says it can not be done, tho head canon says it CAN NOT but maybe they will change it.

    A few questions arise from this posts
    1.- Will the hunt of Iron Masters also include Vampires and Mages? (since if we see it clearly they are still “human” and more prone to be a bad ass hunt)
    2.- What will the Pure hunt?
    3.- Is there going to be a change in the spirit rules or the First Born? It seams to me that they avoided talking about the totems and the relationship with the werewolfs.
    4.- Will they first born be wolfs again or will the change? (Maybe fitting a little better the cosmology of God Machine)

    • Atavist
      March 29, 2014 at 1:50 am

      Just two cents.

      I think a lot of them are meant to overlap. To help packs work together. Particularly considering they tend to overlap with each other (werewolves with both humans and spirits, arguably shartha, humans with claimed, spirits with claimed, and so forth).

      I could see vampires fitting for a couple different guys. Remember werewolves don’t get the Vampire the Requiem corebook after their First Change, so believing they’re a form of leech shartha or blood/gluttony spirit claimed or even just magic humans is entirely reasonable.

    • Stew
      March 29, 2014 at 12:41 pm

      The tribes aren’t a werewolf’s main source of backup, we’ve just not covered what else fills that niche yet.

      1: When a vampire or mage puts themselves at cross-purposes with a werewolf pack. Otherwise, it’s a live-and-let-live situation. Vampires and werewolves are both predators, just with different prey and methodology. Werewolves and mages may move in some of the same spheres, but mages breaking urfarah’s law only matter if something isn’t more important.

      2, 3, 4: We’ll get to that.

  43. Wolfgar
    March 29, 2014 at 1:41 am

    Well, it’s a step. I find it a little weak though.

    My vote is for Wolf-Blooded.

  44. Lyrics-of-war
    March 29, 2014 at 4:34 am

    I have a concern, (Still loving the blood talons though!) Does this new update make our Tribes of the Moon books obsolete entirely? Or are the mentalities of the tribes still similar?

    I.E. are Blood Talons still amazing warriors? Are the Bone Shadows still deeply curious uratha? Or is that all nullified by the hunt?

    • Stew
      March 29, 2014 at 12:42 pm

      The hunt is part of an explanation for why the tribes are the way they are, not a complete replacement. It’s an addition and a refocus, not a complete rewrite.

      • Lyrics-of-war
        March 29, 2014 at 1:56 pm

        Ah ok thanks! That was my main concern, given how much money I’ve spent on Forsaken over the years. Tribes is one of my favorite books.

  45. ForsakenInterest
    March 29, 2014 at 5:06 am

    Just a thought from its reading; it feels like the Hunters in Darkness & Storm Lords “prey” should be switched.

    Understanding that there’s probably a very good reason for these choices as they are that I won’t know till we see full tribe write-ups, it just honestly seems to read better this way when reversed:

    “Hunters in Darkness know that the most dangerous prey is the Urged and Claimed. They believe that the true hunt is to harry these unholy blends of flesh and spirit. it’s not always easy to see who is Urged, but the Meninna always seem to know.”

    “Storm Lords know that the most dangerous prey is the Shartha. They believe that the true hunt is tracking down these mockeries of flesh and spirit — and possibly doing what urfarah could not.”

    • Ephsy
      March 29, 2014 at 11:25 am

      Yeah, that does sounds better.

  46. ForsakenInterest
    March 29, 2014 at 5:09 am

    Just a thought from its reading; it feels like the Hunters in Darkness & Storm Lords “prey” should be switched.

    Understanding that there’s probably a very good reason for these choices as they are that I won’t know till we see full tribe write-ups, it just honestly seems to read better this way when reversed:

    “Hunters in Darkness know that the most dangerous prey is the Urged and Claimed. They believe that the true hunt is to harry these unholy blends of flesh and spirit. it’s not always easy to see who is Urged, but the Meninna always seem to know.”

    “Storm Lords know that the most dangerous prey is the Shartha. They believe that the true hunt is tracking down these mockeries of flesh and spirit — and possibly doing what urfarah could not.”

  47. wyrdhamster
    March 29, 2014 at 7:09 am

    I maybe a bit heretic here, but maybe Storm Lords should hunt… Oaths? Or rather Oath Brakers? Storm Lords want’s to sustain Forsaken’s tradtions and customs and so they hunt on those that break them. Where Blood Talons mostly hunt Pure, Storm Lords look on they own, or things that break them – like ill-fitting spouses or addictions that “destroy” they bretheren. This is my answer to Strom Lords dillema “we got what ha been last to choose” thing.

  48. Storm76
    March 29, 2014 at 7:50 am

    My vote go wolf blooded.

    I like the idea on the Storm Lord hunting oath breaker. My idea was that Storm Lord (The alpha among the alpha) hunt wolf blooded not to kill them but to find them prior the pure and make more forsaken to fight against the idigam or other horror in the nwod…

    Just my two cents…

  49. Fred
    March 29, 2014 at 7:54 am

    One vote to wolf blooded

  50. Thorbes
    March 29, 2014 at 7:55 am


    In one shot you gave focus to the Tribes away from Auspices and took advantage of Forsaken’s antagonist bloat, well done!

    I for one have no problem with the asociation of the Shadow Lords with Claimed and Urged as prey. For one they seem like a mockery of what werewolves are (a flesh-spirit hybrid) and allowing such walking insults going around should be a big no no for the alphas among alphas. Consider too that claiming takes quite a time to build up to. Isn’t it an (unnaceptable) show of weakness to not having stoped the threat before it went so far? Better make an example of those bastards.

    Regarding this week’s choice I’m gonna vote for Wolf-Blooded. I had my itch for werewolf organizations already scratched by Tribes, so Lodges could wait.

  51. Hyglak
    March 29, 2014 at 8:06 am

    The Storm Lord is more about they are alpha among alpha i.e. they are leaders and leaders and not just fighters. My thought is that the Storm Lords hunt is wolf blooded, to find them before the pure to make more forsaken to ensure the future of the race and continue the fight against the others nwod dangers.

    My vote go to wolf blooded

  52. Christian A
    March 29, 2014 at 8:19 am

    If the main antagonists of my game are, say, the Pure, does that mean characters who aren’t Blood Talons will be substantially less effective?

    (And the same applies to other tribe/prey combinations).

    • Stew
      March 29, 2014 at 12:45 pm

      It doesn’t mean they’ll be less effective, but the Blood Talons will likely take the lead on the hunt. We’re not front-loading “this tribe only hunts this prey”, but “this tribe knows the best way to use her pack to hunt this prey”. Make sense?

      • Christian A
        March 29, 2014 at 12:50 pm

        Makes sense, yes. Thanks for your reply!

        So your, say, Iron Master character will not be entirely useless while hunting spirits?

        • Stew
          March 29, 2014 at 4:50 pm

          Definitely not! All werewolves are useful on all hunts.

  53. Starglyte
    March 29, 2014 at 9:44 am

    Vote: Wolf-Blooded, though its mean to make us have to choose between them and the lodges.

  54. Francois Courroux
    March 29, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    What ForsakenInterest said sounds clearly better.

    With the Shartha for the Storm Lords and the Urged and Claimed for the Hunters in darkness.

    But let’s see the justifications of the authors before. They have surely think it a long before they make the choices.

  55. Warhol
    March 29, 2014 at 1:20 pm

    This is fun, love the Storm Lords even more now. I had hoped for. More explicit purpose for the tribes and greater separation of the Bone Shadows and the Ithaeur, and this is it! Lodges.

  56. the_duck
    March 29, 2014 at 2:03 pm

    One question about these new focuses (which I like, the Tribes now have something definate to do, rather than just exist).

    Will these re-imaginings of the Tribes be compatible with the previous incarnations of the Tribes (I’m thinking specifically Tribes of the Moon). I’ve always liked the elemental theme that the Storm Lords had, for example. Will these spirit type “themes” of the Firstborn courts (for want of a better term) still exist?

    I vote for Lodges, I’d like to see what you’ve done with them!

  57. Nathan Henderson
    March 29, 2014 at 2:07 pm

    Can you tell us to what extent the previously existent cultures/themes of the Tribes also still exist? Like, are the Storm Lords still the self-assumed rightful leaders of the Uratha? Are the Hunters in Darkness still especially concerned with connecting with their wolf side and protecting natural places? Do the Bone Gnawers still have their special connection to death and the underworld?

    • Ephsy
      March 29, 2014 at 6:22 pm

      Bone Shadows*

  58. Patrick Regan
    March 29, 2014 at 4:38 pm

    Brilliant — I can totally wrap my head around how these still apply to the old tribe ideas while making it clear how Blood Talens and Rahu are very different things.

    I vote Wolf-Blooded

  59. Nathan Henderson
    March 29, 2014 at 5:34 pm

    I vote Lodges

  60. Adam
    March 29, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    Love this new aspect of tribes, it’ll very much help give players a detailed idea of what their tribe means ‘to them’. Again, loving all of this.

    I rarely use Lodges so lets hear about Wolf Bloods. 🙂

  61. Cathara
    March 29, 2014 at 9:15 pm

    Storm Lords and Hunters in Darkness are basically hunting the same thing while Blood Talons are the only Tribe who seem to have gone “screw Father Wolf’s laws and our purpose, we have better things to focus on”.

    Was an interesting premise with potential but so far hasn’t sold me.

    Vote: Lodges

  62. Nicias
    March 29, 2014 at 10:18 pm

    I would like to see the wolf-blooded discussed next!

  63. Jonathan
    March 30, 2014 at 12:53 am

    In Lore of the Forsaken, there was some talk about how the different Firstborn interacted with each other. Do these relationships filter down to the different tribes as well? Also, Nathan’s question above about the different themes/cultures present in the tribes has me curious, too.

    I’m voting for Lodges next.

    The breakdown I’m seeing is that Tribe determines what you hunt, Auspice is what role you play in the Hunt, and I’m going to guess that Lodges will specialize in either a specific subset of the chosen prey (for example, a Mennina lodge that focuses on Azlu) or method of hunting (the Irraka will always be the scouts/assassins but a Suthar Anzuth with use different methods than the Farsil Luhal)

  64. Raymer
    March 30, 2014 at 12:57 am

    Wolf-Blooded, please. I’m so very excited about this book!

  65. ale
    March 30, 2014 at 2:14 am

    are the other were creatures also targets for the Blood Talons ??

    also what does it mean “While the power of the tribe comes from the firstborn who blesses it”?? if it was in some other book i totally forgot it

    also, wolf-blooded

  66. Daydreamer
    March 30, 2014 at 12:45 pm

    I’m relieved to see that “chosen prey” is a jumping-off point for re-focusing the Tribes rather than a central, all-consuming theme; my biggest complaint about the Tribes was how three of them could be summed up in a single word. For a moment, I was worried that my beloved Hunters-in-Darkness were going to go the same way.

    Vote Wolf-Blooded.

  67. Will
    March 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    Very cool stuff indeed!

    And, to continue my vote from last week), WOLF-BLOODED!

  68. Brian Goubeaux
    March 30, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    Given that the Iron Masters hunt Humanity in general as their preferred prey, I would like to vote Wolf-Blooded to get their response to this peculiar prey choice. Are the Wolf-Blooded of the Iron Masters worried that if they aren’t able to become Uratha that they would become part of the Iron Masters’ hit-list? Would the Iron Masters hunt Wolf-Blooded of other tribes that are incapable of the Change?

    I understand the duty of the Uratha to police the spirits and all, but with the Blood Talons itching to hunt themselves and the Iron Masters hunting the Uratha’s more human offspring, they are basically the douchebags of the world of Werewolf the Forsaken.

    So yeah, Wolf-Blooded.

  69. Ideganshaman
    March 30, 2014 at 8:00 pm

    the Wolf-Blooded is a “way” of acting and auspicious to understand and tribes
    could be a great substitute.

    moreover, there is a lodge in a place for generations because
    are taught certain truths and ways of living.
    an element enters the logs because he knows someone, a family member would be even easier as a link.

    at this point it is a question.
    As these Wolf-Blooded families would be organized?

  70. Brian Goubeaux
    March 31, 2014 at 3:35 am

    Now that I think of it, the Blood Talons hunt for other werewolves might mean the Pure, so that’s a load off my mind. But still I want to know what the Wolf-Blooded think on the Iron Masters hunting their fellow humans. I need clarification.

    • Ephsy
      March 31, 2014 at 6:43 pm

      Hunting doesn’t always means killing. Keeping tabs on Nuzusul (first changees to be), minimizing the damage of their eventual rampage, mapping family trees…

  71. Geroto
    March 31, 2014 at 11:03 am

    Vote: wolf-blooded.

  72. Eric Christian Berg
    March 31, 2014 at 6:56 pm

    I’ll throw a vote in for lodges. Wolf-blooded I’ve always liked, but lodges never really clicked for me. Interested to see how they’ve been improved.

  73. Cahlash
    April 1, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    Very cool! Lodges!

  74. Aspel
    April 1, 2014 at 6:34 pm

    I still want to know more about Wolfblooded. Ghouls were awesome, so I’m hoping Wolfblooded will be too.

    (Plus I never got into Forsaken, so I don’t know what half these fancy Spirit Tongue words mean)

  75. Zathron
    April 1, 2014 at 11:48 pm


  76. Zooroos
    April 2, 2014 at 9:10 am

    Vote: Wolf-blooded!!!!!!

    Also, I like this new dimension added to tribes. Now Tribes are really “the leading experts” in particular types of prey. I could imagine an annual meeting of Hunters in Darkness in a mountain peak to discuss and pass lore about the Shartha gathered during last year. Or a loud, chaotic “Iron Masters Con” in some hotel, every wolf with its nametag or something. Cool!

  77. indarkestknight
    April 3, 2014 at 7:16 am

    I did read in the comments that the idigam are going an “outside context” problem but it does lead to the thought of a nascent tribe beginning to coalesce around dealing with them.

    I like going with the underdog. So Lodges, unless my numbers are grossly off.

  78. Oran Solus
    April 4, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    Wolf Blooded please! I always enjoy the issues that the more normal people have when thrown deep into the worlds of supernatural creatures.

  79. Phobos
    April 7, 2014 at 4:01 pm

    I can see why the Storm Lords have the Claimed. The claimed represent the failure of the Iron Masters to police the human population and the Bone Shadows to police the spirit world. So it falls to the Storm Lords to handle it.

    In addition, ideologically the Storm Lords might be especially appalled by the subservience of the independent self to possession.

  80. Ashen
    July 10, 2014 at 6:50 pm

    I have to agree with the people who feel that the Urged and Claimed being the Iminir’s “chosen prey” is sort of weak… I feel somewhat the same. I mean, it is a niche that gives them focus and sets them apart as hunters and all, but… I don’t know. Maybe it’s just that I’ve never used the Urged and Claimed in my games as much as I use Pure, spirits, Shartha, humans, and heck, vampires. I mean, how OFTEN should I have them come up, in comparison to the other enemy types?

    If it’s a matter of quality over quantity, well, I don’t deny that the Urged and Claimed can be quite threatening to a pack of werewolves, but… at least in my headspace, I might actually prefer the Storm Lords’ “chosen prey” being creatures akin to the Horrors of an Ancient Age as presented in Predators, focusing the Tribe’s Siskur-Dah around playing leviathan hunters of the Forsaken, the ones to “cancel the apocalypse,” as it were, when it comes knocking on the door.

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