That’s right, we’re working today while most of the USA has off. So you know, we have had a sequence of meetings on Monday for the past couple of years; almost as long as Onyx Path has been around. We start with the traditional Monday lunch meeting that in one form or another I’ve been doing since coming to WW in ’92, but in this case Eddy and I have been having a Monday lunch meeting for quite a while. Then I added a meeting with our Onyx Path gang, after we actually got…an Onyx Path gang. Mirthful Mike, Rollickin’ Rose, Ian “Dr.” Watson, Lovely Lisa, a couple of folks who join in once in a while, and now Eddy is sitting in too. Pretty full attendance on a national holiday, so you know our merry band both love what they do, and are workaholics!
In our earlier meeting, Eddy and I talked about the difficult struggle our classic World of Darkness developers and writers have when looking to update a classic Tribe, or Clan, or what have you, from what might be a questionable depiction in the earlier books without stripping away the part of that group that people really relate to and have enjoyed for years. Eddy’s recent posts on the independent clans demonstrate that the initial writing still requires a lot of fan feedback and the writing team working to find the core cool elements that make sense even if there are other aspects that no longer do. See what I mean here: https://theonyxpath.com/category/projects/vtm20/
We also talked a bit about DragonCon, which took place in Atlanta this weekend, and which was once sort of White Wolf‘s “home con”. A bunch of our friends were there, a bunch were at PAX out on the West Coast, and so we’ve seen a lot of things posted about all the fun they are having and the cool stuff that’s going on. For us, we agreed, we’re still recovering our equilibrium from Gen Con, so not hitting a con this weekend made more sense. And for those of you who missed Gen Con, both the Onyx Path 2014-2015 brochure and the Scarred Lands adventure “Gauntlet of Spiragos” that we sneak-peeked at Gen Con are still free on DTRPG, and we are working to get the V20, Scion, and Trinity posters up there too, as well as the Onyx Path t-shirt up on our Redbubble store.
Speaking of the brochure, and just for fun, I thought I’d explain a few of our thoughts on some of the listed highlights of this coming year and why we picked them:
The 20th Anniversary celebration editions: Mage20 is already a thing that we’re in editing on and the art is almost all in. The KS was fantastic and gave us lots of books to work on in the year ahead. Will Wraith20 be a crazy thing too? It was never as popular, after all, and never got a Revised edition. Interestingly enough, I think it might actually be something many folks in our community have only heard of and are curious about, and Rich Dansky is really in effect creating a 3rd edition. And the community that love Wraith, reaaaallly love Wraith. So, it’s a bit of a gamble, but with Rich at the helm, I think it will be worth the trip. And as that starts being written, we step forward just past the brochure and add Changeling the Dreaming 20th to next Fall. Wr20 and C20 are two very different game lines, but share the need for a 3rd edition, so we’re looking at how Rich handles things with Wr20. No definite developer or group of devs yet,but I have had a passel of folks express interest. It should be no surprise, but these x20 Editions are key to our efforts to bring the classic World of Darkness back to our longest running group of fans.
Exalted Third Edition: Is this going to be the year we get the line started? God, I hope so. We’re so close on getting all the text to editing, and the devs are already working on the next books and have set the stage for more, handled with more speed because so much of the groundwork was lain with the main book. So our roll-out of books in the brochure follows our expected release order as we’ve been talking about for over a year now. EX3 is the start of what we intend to be the rejuvenation of the final third section of the WW game lines.
New World of Darkness 2nd Editions: For the books currently being worked on and the Promethean and Changeling the Lost second editions, not much is different with our thinking than if they had just been the listed Chronicle books. The success of Blood & Smoke: the Strix Chronicle already indicated the direction we would go in making them single volume books that were essentially 2nd Editions, but not in name. And now in name as well. Doing two second editions a year is a big deal, but I truly think it is so important to revise these game lines in view of years of play and lessons learned, as well as to include the default Chronicles so folks new to the lines can get started right in and learn as they play.
Beast: The Primordial: While 2014 was slated for a multi-line book for new World of Darkness with the Dark Eras project, we needed a new new game line for 2015 to keep us fresh. We felt like we’d gone as far in a “sci-fi” direction with Demon: The Descent as we could comfortably go without losing the focus of what nWoD is thematically, despite some cool ideas that were pitched, but too far into the fantastic would put us into the same loss of tone situation. The remaining “classic” monsters were also getting a bit thin, with Creature of the Black Lagoon or Mr Hyde or Invisible Man ideas floating around, but not sticking. Beast’s pitch brings a lot of those ideas together, and looks at the dark underpinnings of those stories and says: “Play that!”
Classic World of Darkness books: Werewolf20 has been doing well, and so we looked at a book that reimagines a WtA classic with W20 Umbra; a book that would appeal to both Werewolf fans as well as our surprisingly numerous Changing Breeds fans by detailing several wars between them in W20 Shattered Dreams; and then tighten the focus on a book that would enrich all werewolf players with W20 Changing Ways. Mage20 is still running on the strength of the Kickstarter rewards, but we still wanted to surprise fans with M20 Victorian Mage, since that wasn’t part of the Kickstarter. Sometimes, you need a fun surprise to shake up expectations. Finally, but by no means the least, I wanted to get some strong and interesting books out for Vampire20. I feel like we had a weaker start to the V20 line because so many of those books had been planned out and approved before we even split from CCP. With V20 Ghouls and V20 Lore of the Clans, we have the chance to really expand on the material we first presented in V20, but with fewer constraints stemming from it being our first x20 book. With V20 The Black Hand, we are kind of taking a risk, but we think a good one, because while Dirty Secrets was a polarizing book back in the WW days, it had some fantastic elements that helped define the Vampire experience. And then with V20 Beckett’s Jyhad Diary, we have a chance to really dive deep into the events both from Masquerade and into the whole V20 time period. Still not strictly a “metaplot” book, but one that could be used that way, and just dripping with story ideas for any Chronicle.
New World of Darkness books: You’d think that just doing Beast, and revving up the 2nd Editions would be enough, but our ongoing nWoD gamelines still require a few books a year or folks worry. Vampire the Requiem 2nd Edition gets a book on Elders with A Thousand Years of Night, and a book on the Half Damned to kind of extend the edges of our current vampire experience, and we slide in Hurt Locker to deepen the combat options presented in World of Darkness 2nd Edition (GMC). We’re looking very hard at just what should come next after a new edition, which wasn’t how the nWoD schedule was expected to roll out as we wrote up the brochure, so we may still tweak the releases to further support the needs of 2nd Editions.
Scion and Trinity: We were only able to get some teaser ads into the brochure, because of the difficulties pinning down the new dice pool system for these two gamelines. Yet they are very important to us as Onyx Path‘s wholly owned worlds. The things we could do with them is something that gets our crew giggling, so once we get past settling on the system, we’ll be playing around a lot with them.
Scarred Lands: Another awesome classic WW setting, that we are working with Nocturnal Media on. Because this is a d20 fantasy setting at heart, there are so many places we can take this game-design, system, and audience-wise that we can’t do with the CCP-licensed WW settings.
Pugmire and Cavaliers of Mars: Being able to explore totally new games is something we really want to do, but the demands of cWod, nWoD and Ex3, are vast and all-consuming. Yet progress continues on these very different projects, which like Scarred Lands, we hope will be interesting to very different folks than who traditionally followed WW, but which will also be tried out by our long-time audience as well.
Hey – look up there on the right! Yes, we have a mailing list for Onyx Path News and Announcements! We will email you this blog every week, plus alerts for upcoming and running Kickstarters, PDF and PoD releases, and other news and announcements. Sign up and start getting those little email gifts of knowledge and love!
And finally, hey – look down here below these very words! The Updates:
DEVELOPMENT STATUS FROM ROLLICKING ROSE
First Draft (The first phase of a project that is about the work being done by writers, not dev prep)
- PtC Firestorm Chronicle
- BtP Beast Core
- WtA BotW Employee Indoctrination Handbook
- WtF Idigam Anthology
- MtAw 2e
- MtAw Fallen World Anthology
- MtAs How do you DO that?
- MtAs Book of Secrets
- MtC Rio
- VtR Secrets of the Covenants
- Wraith20
Redlines
- VtM Lore of the Clans
- MtC Sothis Ascends
- VtM Red List
Second Draft
- PtC Firestorm Anthology
- WtA Book of the Wyrm Stretch Goals for Added Content In the Book
- V20 Ghouls
- WtF 2e
Development
- WoD Dark Eras Vampire
- Ex3 core- Antagonists chapter has been finalized. Compiling the second half of art notes, and doing what should be the final edits to the Charms chapter based on internal playtesting.
Editing
- MtC Book of the Deceived
- M20 Core
- WoD Dark Eras
- W20 White Howlers (except for comic)
Development (post-editing)
- Dark Ages
- WtA Umbra
ART DIRECTION FROM MIRTHFUL MIKE
- White Howlers – Need to ping Bridges again to see how the comic is coming along.
- Book of the Deceived – Sam’s fulls are in and approved. I have the art notes and art buy worked out, just need to find the right artists for it.
- DtD Seattle – Errata from Dev?
- DtD Demonseed collection – Interior done, just needs cover and logo and then proofing.
- DtD Interface – Errata from Dev?
- Book of the Wyrm 20 – Cathy’s portraits are in and approved. Stew is preparing the new text docs. He has a ton of edits, so he’s supplying new layout docs. Need to talk to Acevedo about the corporate stock art stuff for the strip down the side of the cover.
- DAV20 – Art Directed. Now we wait until a month from now for art to start rolling in. In the mean time, I’m going to be starting on page designs. Have a really cool idea in mind for the cover. It is really, really, really cool. Starting Kickstarter page and video.
- Anarchs Unbound – Still tweaking cover but otherwise at press. Rethinking some of the cover stickers regarding their size. Screen is ready to go whenever.
- T-Shirts – Going to resend around the fera, lost tribes, and wyrm thing shirts. If we can get those okayed, we can get those up before the end of the month.
- Umbra – AD’d. Sending fulls to Borja. I think this type of thing would suit his style. Sketches rolling in slowly.
- Art O’ The Changin’ Breeds – Planning to start on this and get it rolling. I have some really cool ideas on simplifying the process and making something a little more deluxerish. Yes, that’s a word now.
- VTR II – Prepping a pdf so Rose can find all the references to the B&S title and swap it out for the new title.
- EX3- Not Mike, but the first 91 pieces are reviewed, reference material is getting assembled, and we’re looking at how many Mel Uran might want to do.
REASON TO DRINK: I labored, I drank.
Will there be a World of Darkness 2nd Edition quickstart, like A Nightmare on Hill Manor?
We’ll look into it, as it is our preferred way to go, but it depends on our bandwidth.
Most awesome reason to drink, ever! (Lol)
From the heart.
Yay for mailing lists! Mail Chimp is great.
We’ll see, but certainly folks have asked for it.
So Demonseeds is almost done.
I’d just like to say I’ve been really impressed with the Demon line in every way. Furthemore the fact that every Kickstarter project for it looks like its going to be released to the backers inside 10 months and the general public inside a year is pretty amazing.
Yeah the whole line might not be out in the 12 month period (I imagine the ST guide is going to take a while, with it being a chunky book) but considering how often I’ raised scheduling and timing issues in the comments over the last year I thought it was about time I said something positive about the release stuff.
Great to hear the M20 is almost done in art direction as well. Though editing a 700 page book must be a monster of a task.
I have a question about editing. Do you guys have regular editors like your have devs. For example Machine VI, Matt, Rose, Steve, Dave and Eddie seem to regular devs for game lines. I was wondering if you had a similar “regular” pool of editors as well? Or is it more like the free-lance aspect of the writing phase with different people on each book?
Last question: Are we likely to see a V20DA Kickstarter at the end of September?
Thanks,
Hawthorn
Thanks! Like I’ve said a few times in the past, every KS is different.
We try to give one person developer oversight of a line as that provides a consistency of vision. Doesn’t always work out because of life stuff, but we think it’s the best way. For editors, there’s less of a need to have only one editor understanding a game line, and that system would leave us unnecessarily relying on one person per line to edit. As we have it now, all of our editors can step in where needed.
V20DA KS this month is the plan. Need some info from the printer first.
Are we going to see Demon the Fallen W20? The series always felt a bit rushed and some of the Lores where off balance?
Primordials looks like a great idea and YAY Trinity/Scion and go Exalted GO!! Ty for the great work guy!
Demon: The Fallen Werewolf 20?
If you mean a 20th anniversary of the Demon line, Demon was originally released in 2002, so a theoretical 20th anniversary wouldn’t happen until 2022, eight years from now. We’re only just starting to think about what might go on the 2016 schedule; 2022 is waaay ahead of where we’re planning. If we do a Demon20, we wouldn’t decide on it until 2021 at the earliest.
So, when do get previews for V30? 😉
Well, V25 is only 2016. Would you want us to do that? Even cooler book covers and…what? Truly updated and modernized setting and rules?
Demon 20 is too far away, I’d prefer 10. You however, are two years late already, so I suggest targeting 15 instead.
p.s. For anyone who can’t tell, yes I am joking. Sort of, I would like to see an updated Demon: The Fallen sooner than 2022.
This joke, it has been made before – by us, many times! 🙂
For ex3,
Would it be possible to list the chapters and add just: finalized/not finalized for each of them?
I know a lot of the backers has been dying to get something like this. It ain’t a timeline, but it does give everyone a feel for how close you guys are to getting it done.
It has been really hard to get a overview of the progress since so much that was close to be done has been redone a few times now.
We have had that sort of graph internally here, and the Devs kept reopening the chapters to make necessary tweaks based on Charm changes and playtest feedback so it really became of no use.
EX3 – 91 pieces. To my untrained eye that sounds like a lot of lush art. I envy whoever gets to look at them first!
Soooooo close now!
Yes, it is a lot of art for a lot of book.
“…the first 91 pieces…”
Uh. Somehow I hadn’t realized how much art there is in a huge book like that. That’s a lot of art notes!
That’s just the batch I currently have from the devs. There were some pieces already done, and other art notes still to come.
Wraith20: I’d like to recommend that elements of ORPHEUS RPG be incorporated into the game mechanics of Wraith20. Orpheus, in my opinion, is the best incarnation of Wraith (yeah, I know it was a variant of Wraith – but it was awesome, and genuinely disturbing).
Perhaps Wraith20 can provide critical commentary of movies like “Insidious”, “Paranormal Activity”, “The Conjuring”, “Juon” etc.
It will be Rich Dansky’s call as to how much Orpheus he intends including. Bear in mind that it was always intended as a different take on Wraith, so some aspects may not mesh with where Rich is taking Wr20. Some sort of Orpheus product might make a cool Stretch Goal during the Kickstarter, though. Hmmm…
I’m all for that, I’d back Wraith just to get an Orpheus book out of it.
Orpheus and Demon are the two games I want anniversary editions for, it’s painful knowing how long the wait will be if you actually stick to the twenty year thing.
It’s not like its a gimmick or anything – it’s the 20th anniversary. Those dates aren’t really negotiable.
That’s why you change the anniversary you’re celebrating, if anyone has the power to make the change it’s you!
That sounds good! I can’t wait for the Kickstarter now
I forgot to mention “The Ring” or “Ringu”.
As I am running an Orpheus campaign right now (with my own nWoD conversion) I’d LOVE to see it return in Wr20.
In additon I wanted to add that the Orpheus line of books is the best game for me to run as a storyteller with a very limited amount of prep time.
Everything needed to run the complete campaign is included in the books – and a great campaign it is !
For me it is very sad that OPP does not provide large scale (but very detailed) campaigns like this any more.
I prefer the “this is the main plot line plus a handful of side plots” approach to the sandbox style of “Chicago”.
Regards
Discobutcher
To be fair, Onyx Path has never provided an Orpheus style book series. WW only did it the once and it was a very special project that if Onyx did one like it would have to replace a new game line release (as it did back in the WW days). Not saying we wouldn’t, but it would have to have as compelling a pitch as Orpheus had to get it on the schedule.
Hi !
Well at least it would make a great KS stretch goal.
A re-issue of Orpheus in one book (with slightly modified “O20” rules)
(probably even with a GMC translation booklet)
About DAV20 : when it’s gonna be released?
I can’t wait anymore! 🙂
I’m running a DAV chronicle witha very skilled party and we’re ready to make the jump on the new rules! 🙂
I realize the info is scattered up there in the Updates: V20 Dark Ages is in post editing development, which means the text is pretty much ready for layout barring a dev emergency, we’re waiting on the bulk of the art to come in, and we’re prepping the Kickstarter to go live this month. It looks good for the PDF to be out this year.
I have great expections for Wr20 and C20. Wraith and Changeling were great games, but I think the systems were not polished enough. I hope they suffer a great revision in rules, that made them more playable.
I have not read a word of Wr20. Isn’t it open developed?
The writing has just started. From there it will be up to Rich Dansky’s comfort level with how Open his Development is.
Rich, I know you guys talked a bit about this at GenCon, but I’m just wondering if any talks were had regarding possibly doing Hunter the Reckoning 20, before it’s actual 20th anniversary(2019)?
Like, maybe doing a nice update to HtR like you talked about, with some changes as you saw fit, but maybe a bit earlier? Like, I don’t know, just calling it “Hunter the Reckoning Revised Edition/Anniversary Edition/Special Edition, etc.?” Just wishful thinking.
Keep on kicking ass.
Then it wouldn’t be the 20th Anniversary Edition.
I’m curious if Mad Scientists have been tossed around as a possible gameline. Or would that have gone too “Sci-Fi?” Or does it just become too problematic between the various already existing “mad scientists,” both canon (the guys who create Promethians, certain types of Mages, various Stigmatics, and so on) and non (the fan splat Genius: the Transgression), for a game about Mad Science to be feasible?
(Hmmm.. a WoD supplement detailing info on the various types of mad scientists could be cool, even if they never get their own gameline. Or maybe I just missed the Promethean book where they talk about the Creators.)
They were and it was. My thinking is that having such a book out right after we pushed the God Machine Chronicle and Demon would have been too much emphasis on science-y themes and motifs, so we’ll revisit after a couple of years of not exploring those themes.
What’s going on with the Red List? Like, seriously, it’s been over two years and it’s still in the red lines phase? Farm it out to someone who can actually deliver.
As explained several times, Red List was proposed and is being created by Matt McElroy, who has a true passion for the project. He does not have a lot of spare time, however, and is working on it when the demands of his day job allow. As a Stretch Goal reward, we never gave a delivery date or estimate for this project, so while I understand your interest in having it, we’re not going to “farm it out” but leave it with the guy who can deliver the best book.
Hey there Onyx Path.
A couple of things I’d like to discuss. After all those incredible new announcements.
1. Above all. Thank you. Just the most sincere thank you I could ever say. Over the past year, many fans such as I have voiced desires and opinions and time and again we have been listened to. Speaking only from my own perspective, after W20 Changing Breeds, I honestly though we’d never seen them again and here you give us an entire book on the wars of rage. Giving exactly the kind of lore I’ve been longing for and frequently posted about here and in other mediums and that is even more true with Changing Ways. Of course, I am but one voice amongst many, and it may well be that the books would have ended up being made anyway but the end result to me is the same. I feel like I have been listened to and respected as a fan like no other company has ever done. So, really, thank you.
2. What about Fiction? Unless I’m unable to find them, It seem like the new layout above no longer lets us know of the status of the novels such as Houses of the Moon. Also, I’ve been wondering if it would be possible to discuss the plans for novels?
3. Just wanted to express that the new lineup is impressive and filled to the brink with tremendously interesting books. You guys are on a roll and showing no signs of slowing down.
4. Any news of the digital side of things? I know there was an interest in a Dice Roller and that kind of things. It’s been a while since I asked, so, I just wanted to see if there were anything new on that side.
Thank you!
Yiodan.
I love that Mel Uran gets her pick of however many art pieces she wants to do for EX3.
First I want to thank OnxyPath and Eddy for allow us, the audience, to have a say in the creation of these new Lore books. I’m very grateful to see the creative process, and to have an opportunity to be a part of it.
I’d like to raise one point in this comment about the delivery of the novels. Right off the bat, this point has nothing to do with the personal beliefs of anyone, just the angle by which the information is presented. I hope I can offer something useful for people to consider, and that this can make a positive contribution to the development of the books.
“… the difficult struggle our classic World of Darkness developers and writers have when looking to update a classic Tribe, or Clan, or what have you, from what might be a questionable depiction in the earlier books without stripping away the part of that group that people really relate to and have enjoyed for years.”
After reading through the different clan Lore books, I can definitely see this in Eddy’s writing. However, I feel that by trying to address and fix old problems, we have stumbled into new problems.
One of the core parts of the World of Darkness that drew (at least me personally) in, was the idea of mystery, unreliable narrators, and a world within which you *had* to make your own mind up about, one in which if you didn’t find a place to stand, you wouldn’t be standing for very long.
I don’t get that feeling from these Lore books. The feeling I get is that Damsel, from VtM: Bloodlines, is giving us her opinion on the clans and lore.
But I don’t necessarily want to read an entire book series from Damsel – I want to have the freedom to make my own mind up, and my own judgements as to how trustworthy particular characters or pieces of Lore are. This is integral to being able to use this book not only as a Storyteller, but as a player as well. For example;
“Let’s get it out of the way first. Yes, I’m sure there were Toreador involved in the slave trade.”
Why does there need to be this tone of resignation about the Toreador and the slave trade here? What’s the point of it? Can’t you just talk about the Toreador involved in the slave trade, and let us make up our own minds as to what kinds of people they were? Of course everyone thinks it’s horrid, but this is World of Darkness, these are points we can use for great stories to tell, rather than an emotionally charged eggshell-maze over what is obviously a difficult topic.
“Unethical Vitae Preference (3-point Flaw)”
Now *this* was interesting. Honestly, I thought the entire act of being Kindred was “unethical” by mortal standards, and that you’d resigned to compromise your morals by living a life as a blood sucking parasite who feeds on humanity for survival. Breaking and entering, theft, feeding off homeless and taking advantage of people for blood…. par for the course. And yet a Kindred stops and debates over rapists and murderers? Wait, why is this even being brought up? Do all kindred begin with maximum points in humanity plus 5 to get to this “moral dilemma”, or did I miss a memo?
I commend Eddy for trying to take this on as it was obviously very difficult for him. I don’t think anyone involved in these discussions are bad people, and I sincerely hope I didn’t give off that impression here.
In short, I feel that having one particular angle *of any sort* throughout the entire series of books will rob the players a chance to get a birds eye view of the world.
Without a neutral point of view, I feel as though we are lacking the freedom to make up our minds on the content and how it effects the worlds we make as players, not to mention future players.
I hate to join the chorus of folks badgering you about Ex3 news Rich, but is there any word about the digital character generator for Ex3 that was one of the stretch goals we hit when backing? I don’t think I’ve heard anything about it at all since then, and I’d like to know if it’s still on target to release around when Ex3 releases.