One more chapter for Lore of the Clans before we get ready for Gen Con! Today I have the Followers of Set, written by Joshua Doetsch. Here’s the link to the Google Doc:
Edit: Link removed now that open development is closed. Thank you!
Joshua’s a couple thousand words under (mainly in the mechanics section), so he has room for some more material. I have some ideas of what to fill that space with, but I’m curious what you think. I’ll close comments on this one on Monday, August 11th. I’ll put a big note on the document when I close it so it’s clear.
A few things to keep in mind (and I’ll be repeating these points a lot):
Comments only: Everyone (except me) is restricted to comments only. Some people seem to be able to edit the document, but I’d ask that you do that sparingly. Don’t resolve someone else’s comments or mine, but feel free to discuss whatever makes sense. Please keep it civil, though, even if you disagree. If the conversation is going off-course, I’ll ask to shut it down.
Keep calm and carry on: This is a preliminary draft. Things will likely change between this draft and the final book. If you see something weird or that you don’t agree with, don’t freak out. Just comment on the concerning area, and I’ll look into it. Certainly don’t give the writer shit for it or claim they don’t know what they’re talking about. There’s a possibility that we have something else in mind and it’s just not coming through.
Substance over style: I’m focusing purely on the content, not punctuation or grammar. That kind of refinement of the material will happen in a later draft. Don’t worry too much about commenting on those concerns, unless something makes the material confusing to understand.
Cards close to my chest: Because I don’t want to bias the discussion, I’m keeping my thoughts on how I want to redline this chapter to myself. I’ll certainly answer questions and help steer conversation away from unproductive avenues, but in general I want to see what you think, not tell you what I think.
Wow a whole new way to see Setites. I just got 1 question, how do they embrace (transform) a kindred from other clans. Will it be a flaw or some game mechanic for that?
Setites are Ba’ali now?
Each source (player’s book, vampire rev edition, dark ages 1st and 2nd edition, the two clanbooks, etc) has made one whole new way to see Setites, but this one is quite the same as revised clanbook, maybe explained simpler.
The Setites do not embrace nor transform other Kindred, they do not change their blood. They simply convert them into their religion, but in blood they remain member of their original clans. BTW, they always have done that, at least several sources mention this fact. Not a lot, if any, of NPCs are those converts, through.
Setite think they are evil….The Baali let them.
I love this. Can’t wait.
What I read is quite nice. Still, I think they are some missing things that are important to roleplay a Setite.
What do Setites want? How do they do? Do they corrupt people? Why? With what means?
What about a bit on Setite initiation? From random human to vampire. How are the cults composed? A bunch of mortals/ghouls and a vampire priest?
How is to be a Setite in a Camarilla city? Do they just present to the Prince and act as any Camarilla vampires? Do they build clandestine cults that are object to blood hunts if discovered? Do Princes allow Setite presence?
If Setites are outcast, what do they have to offer to the Kindred long established in the city with more advantage? Do they resort to a clan influence net to obtain what the other Kindred want?
I think the Follower of Set is one of the clans that are difficult to play just with the description of the core book. In part because their stuff is complicated, but in part because that description is made from the outside. I think a clanbook needs to fill those holes. So the above questions are my suggestion to fill the word count.
I also would like to see the return of the Warrior and Ecstasy paths, if only a mention, but I think the above things are more important.
As for what is written, good stuff. Seems like continuing with revised clanbook line, but a bit simpler (I expect it is still understood) and less dense (that clanbook was a bit overwhelming). The majority of the concepts are quite good and so are the powers.
Yes this is exactly! In early versions, was written much about the Sethites by a perspective outside the clan.
The revised version fixed this, but it was very large and difficult to understand.
I think Tlacique, Daitya not deserve such a large space as it is still necessary to explain simply how Setites are in the eye of the storm event and still negotiate with everyone.
The hypocrisy of the members that revolves around of the clan, cursing them in Elysium and going to ask for your blessings and worship services secrectly.
How and why the Setites accept this role in Jyhad.
Hey, Some good stuff so far. Here is what I think:
I liked the introduction chapter very much, it appeals to the theme and mood of the clan and wants you to read more about it.
In contrast the 3 stories of Set don´t seem well thought through. It should be more condensated. Set should be the one who gets the positive spotlight. This means that he should be the one who was wronged and therefore gives his clan his cause of action, thus the foundation for the Path of Typhon.
Ancient History
I espacially liked the story about the bane mummies. Why not go into more detail here ? What are the Legends for each of them ? Maybe some occassions where the Followers actually used one of them. ( I have not found anything on that one)
I find the idea better that isis somehow tricked set into obtaining and performing a flawed ritual. It was never Set´s fault that the ritual went wrong. And he is very sad with the outcome, but he has sworn to get his rightful place. So those mummies will serve him to that outcome.
Another angle could be that Set´s Spell of Life was the original and Isis stole it somehow. So in the end i would left the question unanswered, Whose ritual was perverted and Whose was not: ;P
The heresy chapter is very good. Especially the clarification of demon worshipping vs. the religion of the Dark God.
The mentioning of the Inquisition is wasted in my eyes. Because literally every clan, claims to have caused it. But nonetheless it was a catastrophe for undead society. If they are responsible for it, there should be some more substantial information in the insides of the clan, not only ” We whispered in some ears..”
It´s the same thing with Rasputin, at least 3 clans i know of claim him as theirs. But nobody knows for sure 😀
In my view the wordcount for inquisition should go elswhere.
Maybe an in depth explanation of the silent strider/ followers of Set feud ?
How did it start ? etc.
In modern nights
Good introduction again. Here i would be courious about:
-how does the clan handle path convertites from other clans ?
– How is the clan structure and member count at the moment ?
This means gender, cult or more specific Warrior, ecstatic or lector priest.
In my opinion, the majority of the followers of set are Typhonists. So this means
that Sin 1: Refusing to aid in Set’s resurrection
and Sin 4 : Failing to pursue arcane knowledge.
In my view this leads to a lot of lecture priests in the clan. In the past i have seen seducers and warriors. But there should be more Akhu practising setites out there.
A % would be nice. Like the on on the previous draft of assamites
To the Rules:
Most of it here is from the former clanbooks. Why not leave it out and make something new ?
I like the merit with the bane mummy. But for that there must be some more rule substance here. What can it do? Which knowledge do the setites have to “control” those mummies.
Another merit could be the old discipline line from DA20.
Why for a change did happen that the pinnacle of serpentis is now heart of darkness ?
Something explaining Aura of the Wyrm, a specific merit that counterbalances it.
Maybe Black Spiral Allies? Some Duat-Ghost Retainer ?
There are some possibilities 🙂
Same thing with the disciplines, except for the last one.
Maybe some Akhu Rituals for the parent clan e.g. heart of darkness ?
A presence/ dominate power set for/against mummies ?
Something for/against the old garou enemy ?
Well, those are my 2 cents. I hope you enjoy the extensive read.
Gabriel
Hello, everyone! Thank you so much for the feedback. Going through all of it now. A few notes on my process:
This is very much a first draft. The challenge here was taking material from two previous clanbooks (and other sources) and adding something new, all in a relatively small word count. So the first draft, for me, was erring on the side of old material, clipping all the previous bits that I might have use for, and spilling them here — while exploring to find my own feel for the clan (mainly through the prologue story and some of the intro bits).
The revised draft will be a process of trimming that old stuff back, balancing it out with the new, adjusting to make the bits and bobs of various editions jive better, and smoothing over the big messy stitches of the monster I’m assembling on the mad-science table. Thank you for providing more organs. MWAHAHAHAHAHA!
That sounds promising. Will you tell us when the revised draft is done ?
Unfortunately I’m not going to have time for a round of open development on the revised draft. Once I get final versions from the writers, I’m going to have to roll right into editing to keep the book on-track.
It’s a shame. But even if there is no time for commenting the second draft, I have to say that it feels wonderful to participate in this open development. And not only that, I think that you are conducting very well the process, Eddy.
Thank you! I’m glad you’re enjoying it. 🙂
That cool! I’m excited because my group really likes the Sethites. we always represent snakes in the sessions, campaigns and lives
I’m missing the backgroud “network” and i think the power “typhonic beast” is very weak – it doesn’t change anything if you use skin of adder and potence without using the form, an extra point on your physical traits? you only have to spend a blood point and the form is disposable.
I agree with Gabriel’s statement and question about:
The mummy merit
Akhu ( I miss the comments about the Inner Serpent path and Dry Nile wich are so alike the setite clan)
I also suggest to change the opening phrase for: ” Good and Evil are God’s prejudice. Said the Serpent” – Frederich Nietzsche – I think it fits better than that biblical one.
Our Live Action Group – Jogos da Noite – focus on a Temple of Set, its relationships, trades and religion. We love the Follower of Set clan.
Another missing things:
The merits are representing only the aspects “snakes” of Setites. Is missing things that represent them as priests, dealers and caftans
The merits is only representing ths aspect “snake”
The merit “Blood Cult” should be avaliable to Setites not for Tremere.
Another merits like “favors in the city” “agent of prophecy” or “special gift” and, anything that increases the dealer, charming or divines aspects of Followers of Set
Missing powers:
Hatch the Viper (Protean+serpentis; Guide to the low clans pag 161)
Serpent’s Rubing Kiss (Presence+serpentis, guide to the low clans pag 164)
Speak the Serpent language (Serpentis lvl 2 on MET – could be Serpents 2+obfuscat 1 or alternative Serpentis 2)
Another intersting combos described in MET – intersting to setites:
Monologue (stop fighting and initiate a negotiation: Obfuscate 2+ presence 1)
Radiante Gaze (Implant comands in yout target’s mind without speaking; dominate 3+serpentis 2)
Misplaced affection (puts the victim under the influence of entrancement with someone other than you presence 3, obfuscate 2)