“don’t run home to mama!” [Monday Meeting Notes]

Background Wr20 Logo

I don’t remember who came up with that tagline for the advertising teasers we did for the first edition Wraith: the Oblivion release, but I loved it then and I love it now. (My memory is that it was graphic designer Michelle Prahler who did those first ads and she might have even come up with that line). I can’t even say why I love it so much. It really doesn’t make any sense, yet it just gives Wraith a bit of aggressive spirit that really stirs up the game about being dead. So it feels right, even if when it is looked at analytically the line doesn’t quite explain anything factual from the game at all. A bit of “in your face” was something we wanted for Wraith, something to emphasize the punk in what may be our most gothic of the classic WoD “big five” game lines. That emphasis was, if I recall correctly- and somebody jump in and tell me if I’m off, one of the chief reasons we changed the original title, Ghost, to Wraith. It sounded more angsty to us.

So obviously, from the image above and how I started this blog, the big news this week is the Deluxe Wraith: the Oblivion Twentieth Anniversary Edition Kickstarter that is starting tomorrow at 12 noon EST Tuesday December 2. We’re all pretty excited about the KS, and we’ve got Rich “Deadguy” Dansky, the Wr20 developer, ready to answer questions and generally be the erudite and fun guy that he is in the Updates and the Comments sections. Because we are by necessity going to run this over the holidays, we’re extending the duration to 35 days, which should let folks get past the New Year and still be able to pledge. That’s one reason this KS is a bit different for us, and another is the fact that the original Wraith never had a Revised (or third) Edition, so Rich is approaching the creation of this 20th Anniversary Edition as both a love letter to classic Wraith: the Oblivion and it’s fans, and also as a chance to revise the text as if it was a new edition.

And you can help! In order to allow fan feedback and Reward Tiers that include rewards that will affect Wraith 20 itself, we are launching before the writing is completely finished: at an average the book is in “redline” stage. This leaves more room for Rich to work with backers and not have to wait for a further book down the line. Of course, that leaves us open for… The Wraith Curse.

Long-time Wraith: the Oblivion fans will recall that both previous editions of the main book were plagued by various problems including an exploding transformer (not Megatron) outside a playtest during the writing of first edition. These problems became so prevalent that it seemed that…something…wanted to stop us publishing the books. The Wraith Curse was born. As crazy as it might sound, we have actually entered into the creation of this 20th Anniversary book with The Wraith Curse in mind, and have taken precautions to make sure that we can keep rolling with the project barring anything less than a nuke taking out the Kickstarter servers. (So if that happens, you’ll know why). More realistically, we’ve had our fair share of learning curve road-bumps with our earlier Kickstarters, and so those precautions are far more about those challenges being covered. But The Wraith Curse is more fun to talk about!

Also tomorrow, DTRPG is extending their Cyber-Monday sale of WW PDFs because so many folks hit the server wall. So pop over there (particularly if you are a Technocracy fan…Cyber and Technocracy…get it?) and check out all of their amazing sales!

The Onyx Path crew talked about reviewing pitches for the 2016-2017 schedule, and how we are handling them this year. Meetings will inevitably ensue. Mostly we are all looking at getting back into the swing after Thanksgiving. Thanks to all of you who wrote in with your thanks last month, you really proved it was a month of thanks giving. The whole month’s worth of blogs were really designed to be a tonic for our Onyx Path teams to the stress of dealing with waves of internet commentary that just tends to the negative- hope they helped some of you that way, too.

Finally, in the spirit of the holidays, I have in my possession a small number of extra Deluxe Werewolf 20th Anniversary Editions (no Heavy Metals though, sorry) and W20 Screens, as well as a few Deluxe W20 Changing Breeds books and W20 CB Screens. If you’re interested, we can still get them out before the holidays, so give me a yell at richt@theonyxpath.com with what you’d like and your address and we can figure out costs and shipping based on where you live.

And now, a bit o’ progress below:


DEVELOPMENT STATUS FROM ROLLICKING ROSE (Projects in bold have changed listings)

First Draft (The first phase of a project that is about the work being done by writers, not dev prep)

  • Beast: the Primordial core book (Beast: The Primordial)
  • W20 Pentex Employee Indoctrination Handbook (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • M20 Book of Secrets (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Cursed Necropolis: Rio (Mummy: the Curse)
  • Secrets of the Covenants (Vampire: The Requiem 2nd Edition) – In Open Development
  • Wraith: the Oblivion 20th Anniversary Edition
  • V20 Black Hand: Guide to the Tal’Mahe’Ra (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition) – In Open Development
  • W20 Novel by Mike Lee (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Exalted 3rd Novel by Matt Forbeck (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • W20 Changing Ways (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Demon Storytellers’ Guide (Demon: the Descent)


  • Mummy Fiction Anthology (Mummy: the Curse)
  • Exalted 3rd Fiction Anthology (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Arms of the Chosen (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • W20 Shattered Dreams (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Mage: the Awakening  2nd Edition, featuring the Fallen World Chronicle (Mage: the Awakening) – In Open Development

Second Draft

  • Promethean: the Created 2nd Edition, featuring the Firestorm Chronicle (Promethean: the Created) – Playtesting


  • V20 Red List (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • V20 Ghouls (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • World of Darkness Dark Eras- Vampire chapter (WoD Dark Eras)
  • Sothis Ascends (Mummy: the Curse)
  • Fallen World Chronicle Fiction Anthology (Mage: the Awakening)
  • M20 How do you DO that? (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)


  • Exalted 3rd Edition core book- From Holden: All first-pass editing is finished, though, and he’s currently doing second passes through Charms, Evocations, and Martial Arts to nail down consistency issues throughout– editing is in the very final steps, in other words. (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Firestorm Chronicle Fiction Anthology (Promethean: the Created 2nd Edition)
  • V20 Lore of the Clans (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)

Development (post-editing)

  • World of Darkness Dark Eras core book (WoD Dark Eras)
  • Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition core book (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Werewolf: the Forsaken 2nd Edition, featuring the Idigam Chronicle (Werewolf: the Forsaken)



  • Book of the Deceived –  Awaiting errata. The advance PDF is at http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/139497/Book-of-the-Deceived
  • Book of the Wyrm 20 – PDF and physical book PoD versions on sale now at DriveThruRPG.com: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/138407/W20-Book-of-the-Wyrm  Waiting for revised quote for Deluxe cover from printer.
  • DAV20 –  Proofing. Corrected Heraldry for the first set of stuff in. Remaining artwork is underway.
  • T-Shirts – HtR shirts available. Tweaking V20 DA backer shirt. Should have Revised era ones ready to go shortly.
  • Art O’ The Changin’ Breeds –   Got a little more done. Still more to go.
  • Umbra –  Advance PDF for sale: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/139920/W20-Umbra-the-Velvet-Shadow Hopefully, Stew is getting the errata pass rolling. Would like to have it and Deceived PoDs wrapped up before xmas.
  • VTR II –  Uploaded updated PDFs on last Wednesday. PoD proofs ordered.
  • WtF 2 – Contracted. Seen some sketches in. Art isn’t due until mid month.
  • Scarred Lands –  Spiragos [REDACTED] ed interior proofing.
  • Idigam Chronicle Anthology –  Good to go on sale Weds.
  • Wraith 20 – Did some more graphics up on Wednesday for it.
  • M20 – Still with Dev.
  • Dark Eras – Art Directing.
  • V20 Lore of the Clans – Art directing once I have Dark Eras directed.
  • EX3- RichT here, once again tagging onto Mirthful Mike’s report, Maria Cabardo and I continue to get sketches and finishes on a daily basis and review them with the Devs. All but one of the first batch, maybe a quarter of the overall pieces, were OK’d by CCP, and after a tweak, so was the holdout..

REASON TO DRINK: Do not drink gently into that good night…







57 responses to ““don’t run home to mama!” [Monday Meeting Notes]”

  1. Unsilent Majority Avatar
    Unsilent Majority

    Very excited about Wraith 20 tomorrow!

    Question Rich: How much of the art for Wraith 20 is completed? I saw the question asked on Twitter with no response. So it kinda got me scared. No pun intended.

    1. IanW Avatar

      Given that Rich mentioned the book is still largely in the redline stage, it’s unlikely that much art, if any, has been completed. Artists need art notes to work from.

      1. Unsilent Majority Avatar
        Unsilent Majority

        I’m sorry. I didn’t know that art could not be completed until writing is past the redline stage.


        1. richt Avatar

          Ian is correct in general, although we often can get some art for an established line by saying “give us some cool vampires”. In Wraiths case, we are holding off to both get the text first, but also to allow Backers who pledge as art models to actually show up in the main book itself.

          1. Unsilent Majority Avatar
            Unsilent Majority

            Makes sense. I appreciate your follow up. Thanks, Rich!

          2. Kim Avatar

            But, speaking of art, I see that the amazing artwork/direction/design of the, at the moment, most recent Wraith the oblivion is present in the letters of the new logo.
            This gives me hope for the upcoming Wr20 🙂 I always loved the artwork, and the mood it helped to get to the setting of the most recent book.
            But I wonder; is my hope well placed? 🙂 or is it false? 🙁

            (in other words; will the characteristic style of Wraith the oblivion return? I, unfortunatley don’t know the name of the specific artist I’m thonking of:/ )

          3. richt Avatar

            I’m betting you are thinking of John Cobb and his borders. But take a look at the KS tomorrow as we use a bunch of the old art to illustrate the KS page.

          4. Eduardo Avatar

            Good morning!

            I have interest in acquiring the Werewolf Deluxe 20th Anniversary Edition and W20 Screens, as well as the few W20 Deluxe Changing Breeds books and W20 CB Screens.

            Thank you in advance,

            Best regards,

            Eduardo Ribeiro de Oliveira

          5. IanW Avatar

            As Rich said in the post above, if you’re interested in a deluxe book, send him an email. Do not post your information here on the blog.

  2. ThomasM Avatar

    As bad as I want those books, my wife wants a new couch more. Congratulations to the lucky few who get them!

    It may already be December but THANK YOU so much for the Cyber Monday deals! I could afford those.:) I just finished devouring the Geist Ready Made Characters and am throwing myself into CB Void Engineers.

    Looking forward to the Wraithly fun…

    1. richt Avatar

      Glad the sales worked for you! Sorry you can’t join in on the Wraithly fun, but domestic bliss is important!

  3. Eric Crabtree Avatar
    Eric Crabtree

    Can’t wait for the Wr20 KS. Have you guys thought of an Ultra deluxe ed you’d want to do?

    And an art request. Can we get like some badass Charon splat piece in the book? Like more badass than kung-fu monkeys.

    1. richt Avatar

      No thoughts on the Ultra. I wanted to do a glow in the dark cover and did it back in the day, so nope, nothing leaps out at me. Charon knows Kung-fu…

      1. Eric Smailys Avatar
        Eric Smailys

        My humble suggestion for an Ultra Deluxe: Chains – as in, actual heavy chains and the Wraith “W” seal over a reinforced cover.

        1. Eric Crabtree Avatar
          Eric Crabtree

          A black foiled stamp on the side that resembles and Oboli..

      2. Eric Crabtree Avatar
        Eric Crabtree

        And maybe an astray in one of the pieces..Just..you know..a shout out..

  4. […] Fonte: https://theonyxpath.com/dont-run-home-to-mama-monday-meeting-notes/ […]

  5. IanW Avatar

    Speaking of the Curse, it should be noted that Wraith20 is our 13th Kickstarter.

    That has me a little nervous.

  6. Felipe Avatar

    Wait Werewolf 2ed already out of editing? That was really fast! But I suppose we still won’t be finished until the end of the year.
    Anyway, very excited for Wraith 20th Kickstart!!

    1. richt Avatar

      No, it won’t be out in Dec. It’s a big book, it needs an index, and we really don’t want to rush layout.

  7. Shawn Avatar

    Finally an onyx path KS I will catch from day one. I can’t wait to hear more about the project as it progresses. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.

    I would have no problem with a glow in the dark leather bound emanating off the book shelf.

    I missed both the mage and dark ages KS sadly and figured the only way to get a copy is to come work for you guys, need a rocket scientist for any reason? 🙂

    1. richt Avatar

      If only to continually ask “What are you, a rocket scientist?” And I would. So maybe it’s better you check on EBay for those Deluxes rather than risk coming to work for Onyx Path. 🙂

      1. Shawn Avatar

        Fair enough! 🙂

        Rich, I sent a seperate email regarding the Werewolf and Changing Breeds extra deluxe copies and haven’t heard back. Either you are super busy or they are already gobbled up?

  8. Nemo Oceansoul Avatar
    Nemo Oceansoul

    o.o; i somehow forsee the following text the monday meeting before Christmas…
    “Exalted 3rd Edition: RELEASED”

    if not then o.o; itll be soon after christmas. i only say this due to it being in basically the last stages of editing. art is by the way you put things basically 25% done. barring The Wraith Curse just somehow doesnt hit some other line out of spite of being foiled o.o; i get the sense the artists will be done w/ the 2nd batch sometime this week.

    ^_^ oh well it wont matter much to me.
    just 1 word is plagueing my mind…. “soon”.

    1. richt Avatar

      I’m torn between asking why you torture yourself like that and loving your optimism. There’s still a lot of work to do on EX3 before we reveal it to the world. But thanks and hang in there!

  9. Torakhan Avatar

    I was going to pick up the White Howler Tribebook when I noticed that his has a “b/w” Softcover, and a “standard” color softcover, but no “Premium”.

    For the extra few $, I always get the Premium color now. Will this be an option? If not, I’ll just get the b/w option since there’s only one color page in the book, but I thought I’d ask before making my holiday purchases. 🙂

  10. Jay Avatar

    Exalted, its sooo close now, I’m praying for a Christmas miracle!

    1. richt Avatar

      It would have to be. We seriously have no surprise hail-mary passes for this one. It is progressing faster now, but not that fast.

      1. Jay Avatar


        It’ll be out when it’s out – it’s all good. I can still wish on a miracle 25th December morning email … failing that I’ll just go pick up Mummy or something. 🙂

  11. tau neutrino Avatar
    tau neutrino

    Should the subscribers to the mailing list have received the coupon for the original Trinity book yet?

    1. richt Avatar

      Last Friday (Black Friday) the email blast containing that went out, I’m told by Impish Ian Watson.

  12. Teylen Avatar

    I am totally excited about Wraith 😀
    As for the Ultra Deluxe,… the first thing that jumps to my mind would be Chains, like real chains. With something glowing underneath?
    Maybe it’s just my imagination running wild ^__^

    1. richt Avatar

      Sure, that something somebody could do. But physical bits bolted to a book aren’t really our thing. The Deluxe Edition is going to look really cool, so I can’t see the need for an Ultra Deluxe. But I’ve been wrong before-

  13. Demac Avatar

    Hey Rich. Thanks for doing he updates. I really enjoy reading them. Just out of curiosity, how much of the Exalted art do you have in?

    1. richt Avatar

      I haven’t counted them, but a quarter of the ones we’ve commissioned. A lot more finals came in this week that I hope to preview to backers later this week or early next.

    2. Nemo Oceansoul Avatar
      Nemo Oceansoul

      to answer Demac’s question i shall use a quote from above. note “caps lock” is to help provide emphasis.

      “EX3- RichT here, once again tagging onto Mirthful Mike’s report, Maria Cabardo and I continue to get sketches and finishes on a daily basis and review them with the Devs. All but one of the first batch, MAYBE A QUARTER OF THE OVERALL PIECES, were OK’d by CCP, and after a tweak, so was the holdout..”

      meaning: 25% o.o; (this assumes im actually reading this right o.o;

      1. Demac Avatar

        I think you misunderstood the question, Nemo. I asked how much the HAD IN, not how much CCP had approved. A previous Monday Meeting note had indicated that they had about 50% in and ready for CCP approval. This one indicates half of that went into batch 1.

  14. JDF Avatar

    I don’t see Changeling anywhere on the list. Has it not entered first draft yet? Sigh…

    1. richt Avatar

      Nope, neither Changeling 20th nor Changeling the Lost 2nd Edition.

  15. marin Avatar

    Hm. Doing actual chains for an Ultra Deluxe Wraith might be impractical. How about doing a Heavy Metal Edition like Werewolf20 – a metal cover printed to match the Wraith cover?

    1. richt Avatar


      1. PookaKnight Avatar

        So it can be called the Soulsteel Edition?

  16. Tranicos G Avatar
    Tranicos G

    OK. I’m new to buying something from Kickstarter (shut up 🙂 )

    I want the Deluxe Hardcover with sewn binding. Do I have to buy the extras as separate options? What do I do?

    1. Tranicos G Avatar
      Tranicos G

      More specifically, I only want the NEW DELUXE HARDCOVER without all the previous editions. Is that possible?

      1. marin Avatar

        Yep. Select the Restless Dead tier (the $110 one). That gets you the Wr20 deluxe hardcover, the Wr20 PDF, the Wr20 PoD at cost, and the wallpaper

        1. Tranicos G Avatar
          Tranicos G

          Sweet! So, that tier will get me only those items, none of the other extraneous items from the previous tiers?

          Thanks for the info!

          1. marin Avatar

            Yep. Each tier includes only what it lists, nothing from other tiers.

          2. richt Avatar

            What Marin said.

            Thanks, Marin!

      2. tau neutrino Avatar
        tau neutrino

        Sure, that’s the default at the $110 pledge level. The only extras are the wallpaper, the PDF, and the coupon for the PoD version.

  17. crawlkill Avatar

    I remember that essay on the Curse! man, it’s been a long time.

    I’ve still got a copy of first and second ed Wraith and they’re the only oWoD books that haven’t fallen apart on me (they’ve seen much better treatment than have my others). they’re absolutely beautiful books. I’m generally pretty opposed to physical goods where digital will do, but…I think I gotta go in at the physical tier on this one. damn yooou!

    any chance we’ll see Ascension 20A by Christmas? I have no idea how long each of these phases tends to take.

    1. richt Avatar

      Very unlikely now that the Editor and Satyr Phil had to review some sections. It’s for a good reason, but I also am disappointed.

      1. PookaKnight Avatar

        Sad to hear. I was really hoping to read the PDF over Christmas. I’m sure everyone made the right call to delay it though.

  18. Nemo Oceansoul Avatar
    Nemo Oceansoul

    and now i have a question for anyone who could answer…

    im looking forward to Exigents in EX3, and yet anxious, im worried about how their charm creation rules work… so if anyone over at the dev department has worked out the basic mechanics for creating the charm trees for the exigents. will it be like the devil tigers custom charms from exalted 2nd or will it be more… “structured”. if “structured” which current game would you say is similar. or if this is impossible care to say how it would work. in a general “non-spoiler” fashion ofc =).

    … or i can wait to see. personally would like it more in a structured fashion so that those who really are bad at charm creation can still play them without much difficulty and still using things that they create instead of overloading the ST with too much leg work.

    im even hoping that it can be used as a base to create other splats custom charms o.o;

    guess ill just have to wait. =) heres to hoping for its release. =D cheers!

  19. Aise Avatar

    A little off topic, but it is already more than 20 years of the two editions of Chicago by night … But still’re time to Montreal by Night V20 🙂 You have some space in schedule for 2016? An another question don’t know if you could answer, will V20 pdfs of spanish products published in Spain by Biblioteca Oscura, sell in http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/? And congratulations on the success of Wraith20!

  20. jason Avatar

    what happened rich with m20 ? did something get butchered during the art layout or such ?

  21. Cardul Avatar

    You know, there is one thing that always kind of bothers me about the kickstarters:
    their ENDING day. As far as I know, most people get paid on Fridays, but the kickstarters always end on a Tuesday or Wednesday. I wonder if they would do better if they ended on a Friday or Saturday?

    I know it is a small thing, but there have been kickstarters that I had to drop out of because money got tight around the time of them, and they ended before I got paid, so I did not have the money to give. That, in fact, is why I had to drop out of the V:DA kickstarter 🙁

  22. Erinys Avatar

    Not specifically a Wraith fan, but WOOT for a Revised Wraith.

    I didn’t post anything for Thanksgiving, but THANK YOU to the Onyx Path and CCP folks for reviving the Classic WoD lines and for your open development model and willingness to talk to us in detail about the behind the scenes stuff. And thank you for considering our opinions about our favorite gamelines.