The Idigam Chronicle focuses on those four words that you’re probably sick of by now: The Wolf Must Hunt. Gifts and Gift lists as they stand at present don’t really play in to that. So we’ve taken a long, hard look at Gifts, from how your characters purchase them to what each Gift does to help in the Hunt.
As well as looking at how Gifts tie in to the hunt, we also wanted to re-examine how Gifts and Renown work together. Some Gift lists used different Renown for their powers, meaning that characters either took an XP hit by picking up only the Gifts that matched their Renown, or bought a full set of Gifts that varied significantly in power level because of the character’s Renown. We wanted to get around that. We also wanted to make the whole system clearer, to make it clearer what a character can get by when.
We’ve renamed Gift lists in order to make things clearer. Instead, what would be a Gift list is now just a Gift — Crescent Moon’s Gift, or the Gift of Dominance. The idea here ties in to how Gifts work in the world. A character’s Tribe, Auspice, or a spirit she hunts, gives her access to a Gift. She can then learn the Facets — independent expressions of that Gift — independently.
We’ve further split Gifts down into two types. Well, three types. Ish. Two and a half.
Moon Gifts replace Auspice Gifts. Each Auspice has one — Crescent Moon’s Gift, Full Moon’s Gift and so on — as part of your Auspice. Moon Gifts have levels from one to five, and you gain a Facet of your Moon Gift for free every time you buy up Auspice Renown. A Rahu with Purity ••• will have the •, ••, and ••• Facets of Full Moon’s Gift.
Every Moon Gift makes your werewolf better at her Auspice’s role and style of hunting. Crescent Moon’s Gift starts by allowing you to see spirits in Twilight and push your senses across the Gauntlet and finishes by telling you where every spirit is within five hundred yards and letting you see with its senses.
The Idigam Chronicle book itself includes only one Moon Gift per Auspice. When we have a chance to either create more, or to revisit the Auspice Gifts from Lore of the Forsaken or Signs of the Moon, characters can choose one Moon Gift as part of her Auspice, and can then buy in to other Moon Gifts.
Shadow Gifts comprise the second type. The facets of a Shadow Gift aren’t ranked; they don’t have dots at all. Instead, each Facet of a Shadow Gift is linked to a specific type of Renown, and are roughly the equivalent power of a three-dot Gift. Characters start with access to two Shadow Gifts, taken from among options from Auspice and tribe, and can buy in to other Gifts with Experiences, allowing them to purchase Facets or gain them with Renown.
Characters can’t have a Shadow Gift Facet that they don’t have any dots in the Renown for. We have sorted out how this applies to characters who double up their Auspice renown so that’s not a cheap way to start with more Gifts. Renown gives a free Facet of a Gift that the character knows as before — and Auspice Renown grants a Shadow Gift in addition to a Moon Gift. If a character wants a facet that she’s not likely to gain through Renown in the near future, she can also buy it with Experiences. By making it clear how much Renown ties in to the various Gifts, I’m hoping we can reduce the number of times when players buy Facets with Experiences when they’d have been better off using a free Renown pick.
Because of this link, two Bone Shadows of different Auspice that pick up the Gift of Death will favor different Facets. As Bone Shadows, both benefit from Eyes of the Dead (the Wisdom Facet), which gives them visions of what the corpse last saw. A Rahu will likely favor Bone Gnaw (Purity), which grants knowledge or skills by eating the bones of the dead. An Irraka, by contrast, will likely choose Cold Embrace (Cunning), which lets her appear to be a fresh corpse.
By their Auspices and deeds, each Uratha can find facets of Gifts that help her hunt the way she prefers to hunt.
The “and a half” type of Gift are Wolf Gifts, natural paths of spiritual development that many werewolves go through. Wolf Gifts work like Shadow Gifts, but characters don’t have to buy in to them. Characters can take Facets with Renown or with Experiences. The Gift of Change and the Gift of Hunting are what used to be Father Wolf and Mother Luna’s Gifts, but again re-focused around what each werewolf does as part of the hunt.
And to put my money where my mouth is, here’s the first drafts of four Gifts: Half Moon, New Moon, Nature, and Technology. As a first draft, things may change between this document and publication.
Gifts are a core part of Werewolf, so have the other key musical inspiration behind the Idigam Chronicle: Hungry Like the Wolf.
As promised, I’m back to offering a real choice this week. Would you like to see Auspices or the Idigam?
Auspices, please.
Idigam. Gotta vote for the name of the Chronicle, c’mon.
Auspicea
Also Auspices. Thank You!!!
As much as I like Auspices I want Idigam.
Auspices, please.
Show us the Idigam, Stew!
Please 🙂
Auspices please!
Love what you’ve done with the gifts and can’t wait to have a look at auspices and see whats happened with them 🙂
Auspices. I’d take Renown over -anything- else, far and above, but, well… Auspices given the choices.
Very interesting.
Auspices!
The Fera (Changing Breed) in the Indigan Chronicles.
Looks very interesting, thank you for the teaser! I’d like to request Idigam please!
Idigam, actually. A game is made by its antagonists, Werewolf’s especially.
Idigam please!
Idigam please
Are you kidding? Idigam, duh! I hope they’ve been re-worked/updated from Night Horrors as much as Strix were from their Night Horrors book.
Can I count for two votes, too, please? Just to make sure they win? k thx
If I count your vote as two, I’ve got to count everyone’s as two. 🙂
I really like what I’m seeing. It definitely has me primed to learn more about Auspices.
idigam please
Auspices!
Idigam
Auspices, this time.
Auspices! Also, I would have loved to see an example of Wolf Gift 🙂 Keep up the good work!
Idigam
In the frenzy of Auspice vs Idigam excitement, it’s worth saying
damn fine work with the Gifts, damn fine
Once the Gifts were spelled, now is time for Auspices! 🙂
Wolf forms please, Im not lead by the herd
So you’re a straggler, isolated from the protection of the herd, eh?
Excellent.
Auspice, please! Loving the new Gifts!
Auspices. I know enough about the Idigam from Wolfbane.
I am sort of torn on the new gift system, but that is in part due to the fact that we simply do not have all of the information.
My concern is it seems that while many of the low points from before were raised, many of the high points were lowered by the fact that many gifts now fall under a 3 dot power equivalent while we lose many 5 dots.
Will there still be more gifts that fall under the 4 and 5 dot power equivalencies with the release of the IC or are we essentially limited only to 1x 5 dot gift as a result of our auspice moon gift?
Also, I vote for Idigam
Having a 4- or 5-dot equivalent Gift doesn’t make sense under the new system.
If the Purity, Honor, Glory, and Wisdom Facets of the Stealth Gift were all 3-dot equivalent, and Cunning Stealth was 5-dot equivalent, everyone who buys Cunning Stealth is getting more bang for their Renown (or Experience) than people who buy other Facets. Which is just plain bad design.
Many of the most powerful Gifts have equivalents in the new system, but they’re expressed differently; the four- and five-dot Gifts that weren’t as good mechanically as their flavour suggested are actually improved by the new baselining.
What we’re doing is making it so all Shadow Gifts are of an equivalent utility. Getting rid of trap options is a good thing.
Ahh, thanks for the clarification! That makes me feel quite a bit better. I quite understand how if a single gift was significantly better than its’ peers than it would be considered an exp waste to purchase anything besides that.
I guess I will just need to wait and see how the new system works and break out of the old way of thinking about gift power and dot values.
Still…one can always hope that their favorite archetype has a few major kickass powers that make the others cry with envy 🙂
Yeah, I was a little worried too. Thanks for asking the question!
Stew, thanks for answering.
i really want to know what is an Indigam, so indigam.
also, “By making it clear how much Renown ties in to the various Gifts, I’m hoping we can “, the suspense is killing me
Renown is a thing me and my players have a hard time to go with. In short Primal Instinct is for the defense, Renown for the offensive with the gifts.
I hope we can see more for Renown late.
But for now, i vote Auspices.
Idigam please!! I can’t wait to see what you guys did with them.
Auspices.
Interesting. Two concerns though:
1) Will we still have ‘You must be X awesome in-character to be able to buy higher level Gifts’ as a requirement for Renown? (Please say no)
2) I’m uneasy about the first Elodoth power. Perfect lie-detection and social shenanigans do not mix well.
For my vote: Auspices, please.
1) From what I can see? you only need 1 dot in the required renown for it’s facet, this means if shadow gift cost 1xp to purchase, and you have at least 1 dot in each renown, you can buy each facet for 5xp. The only gifts that appear to need specific renown are the auspice ones, and you still get Shadow gift with renown purchase.
2) Read the previous version of Scent Beneath the Surface. It had the same properties.
1) The only ones which apparently need to have some renown at some plateau is the Auspice gifts, having 1 dot in each would allow you get each Shadow Gift’s facet.
2) Read the previous version of Scent Beneath the Surface: It works the same way.
2) This may be so, but that doesn’t mean I liked it then either. :-p I’m mostly concerned about how these things work when turned on the players. You are a social-focused Irraka! You have a cunning scheme to pull a fast one on the other pack! Oops, they have an Elodoth. Now what?
The most significant change to the phrasing is that it specifically mentions lying by omission. Depending on how your storyteller interpreted the old language, that could lead to a pretty significant new stream of information.
But note that while Scent Beneath the Surface got a slight upgrade, there’s no more Snarl of Command – extrapolating is tricky but I imagine there’s a facet of Dominance that’s the best you’ll get. The tricky part of being a deceived Elodoth isn’t noticing the deception: it’s persuading anyone outside of your pack that you’re the truth-teller and not the liar. It was hard before and without SoC it’s harder now.
On the other hand, it’s a pretty narrow problem you’re describing. Direct social deception of another Forsaken pack isn’t that common of a necessity, and you can still achieve it through physical stealth, not talking to them face to face, having them talk to proxies you’ve kept in the dark, or – any number of other slightly more indirect approaches.
My experience from playing an Elodoth in conspiracy-filled chronicles is that Scent Beneath the Surface is valuable but rarely if ever a silver bullet. It just gives you another angle to follow up on.
Nope, lemme quote the first version:
Unless the subject uses some supernatural means to hide his motions and intent, the Elodoth can immediately tell whether he’s lying outright, lying by omission, speaking the truth in a deliberately misleading way or is intentionally evasive. The Elodoth can also piece together a general impression of the subject’s emotional state, regardless of how well the subject acts in order to conceal it.
Just sounds to me the Irraka needs to be cunning to pull off his scheme.
First two ideas that come to mind are:
1) have someone else be the face for the duration of the scheme, have this someone be given false information (but believing this information to be true), and have this someone relay this information to the other pack.
Now when the Elodoth uses his Gift it will tell him nothing of the players scheme and may in fact work to their benefit since everything the players said was (to their knowledge) true.
2) Second idea is to cripple the Elodoth’s Gift through a fetish, a allied spirit’s numina, higher stats (I believe it’s a contested roll), sleep deprivation or social distractions (find where the Elodoth works, cause problems for his company or place the company in a highly profitable situation, force the Elodoth to spend extra hours working away from his pack or on a trip), etc.
If you have Purity •, you can have Pure Strength, Pure Hunt, Pure Stealth, and still more. The only time a Gift would need Purity •• is if you’re a Rahu, and then raising it to •• gets you Full Moon •• for free.
If you’re going to be buying lots of Purity Facets, then it make sense to boost your Purity Renown. You get one free facet with every dot, as well as improving the dice pool or effects of the facet. Buying facets with Experience is mostly for dipping in to a Renown that you’re not looking to improve, or for buying things up when you’re spread across quite a few Facets in one Renown already
Aha! That does look reasonably straightforward, or at least not as complex as I feared. Thank you very much for the clarification, sir.
Ah and i like how facets of the gifts are tied to the Auspices, (with the Renown). But i have many interrogations with the Renown itself, who was a weak point of Werewolf for me.
In all, great job for the Gifts, i like more the new system already.
looks interesting so far
also the gift preview.
Btw
“Gifts are a core part of Werewolf, so have the other key musical inspiration behind the Idigam Chronicle: Hungry Like the Wolf.” the link doesnt work it puts theonyxpath.com/gifts/ before the link to the music
Vote for indigam
Bah! Fixed. 🙂
Auspices, please.
Auspices.
I was not expecting quite so complete a re-tooling of Gifts, but I really like it!
My vote is for Idigam; antagonists are my number one interest!
Idigam!
I like the ideas on getting rid of Gift lists. I love the theme of “hunter” within the Gifts. Very excited! Much spirit!
Nice, have renown not be a chain on gifts is a huge improve. Auspices please! Also there’s an cut-off sentence in the middle of the article. “By making it clear how much Renown ties in to the various Gifts, I’m hoping we can”
Updated.
Nice, have renown not be a chain on gifts is a huge improve. Auspices please! Also there’s a cut-off sentence in the middle of the article. “By making it clear how much Renown ties in to the various Gifts, I’m hoping we can”
I’m still having a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around how learning Gifts works (two or three more read throughs should do it). But I do like the new mechanics for the Gifts and the way the list is sorted!
I’m voting for Auspice!
They way I’m reading it is like this. Buying an Auspice Renown nets you two free Gifts a Moon Gift and a Shadow Gift. Any other renown gets you a Shadow Gift facet of a Gift you already know. Gift’s probably have to be purchased via experiences, and additional facets can probably be purchased with an experience expenditure.
Thanks Peter! It’s making sense!
Yup, you got it.
Oooh, Gifts look really interesting now! I’m going to have to vote Auspices after seeing this though
Oh man, such a tough choice. I’m going to go with Asupices, as all this talk of how important they are makes me curious on how they’re being amped up for this new version.
I am curious though on how the Idigam have changed, as I honestly thought they were a well thought out antagonist type in Wolfsbane. Each one of them was unique with their gimmicks, methods, and goals, but all of them are still mad creator-god-things up to no good. I guess I’m just hoping that they haven’t lost that bit of “unique, alien, and grand” character that they had.
I love the new Gifts, based on just what I’ve seen so far. I’m going to have to vote for Auspices though
Looks great so far! You guys fixed my biggest gripe with the Renown/Gift system. I also like the fact that the gifts are more baseline with each other in terms of powerlevel. It encourages werewolves to buy gifts that synergize with each to make there pack flipping dangerous, For example I could already see an Irraka and Elodoth with the Nature gift working together. The Irraka set’s somebody up with Nature’s Lure, and the Elodoth keeps uses Knotted Paths to keep them from escaping the trap or the ambush, it’s brilliant.
As for my vote, while I’d like to know how you guys are changing the Big Bad for Idigam Chronicles, I gotta see what your doing to the Auspices.
Not to mention the plot hooks I’m seeing with both the Wisdom facets of the Nature and Technology Gifts
Considering how the World of Darkness is crawling with perfect liars I think Elodoths being able to force a “roll-off” on them allows for actual dialogue to play out without one party looking like a doofus. I love how Elodoths screams for the social shenanigans is something I can definitely get behind.
Irraka were always my favorite so I’m glad the New Moon’s list is up for teasing. It looks frickin’ perfect to me.
The Shadow Gifts actually look like a good way to do it. Even if a Pack is all of the same Tribe and buys the same lists the Auspice differences will give them WILDLY different thematics to play with. I always had a problem with the xp sink aspect of Renown, but this looks good to spice things up even if you only ever dig into one.
Funny how people were saying gifts being “normalized” to the 3-dot level of power is a bad thing for Shadow Gifts. The old 5th Dot of Technology is right there as the Wisdom Technology Gift. From the old system only a few of the Fifth dot powers actually felt like they were 5 dots in power level. And seeing how those tended to be extended actions anyway they’re probably better as Rites or something.
Wish we had gotten a spoiler for one of the “and a half” gift lists.
My vote goes for Auspices.
Auspices.
This looks a lot better, but I’m gonna have to pick through the samples and some people’s brains to see if it really jives in my brain. I believe it will though.
Question: With the re-focusing of the Tribes onto a favored type of prey, does this mean that each tribe will have a unique Gift for hunting that prey? If so, it looks like those Gifts will be Shadow Gifts; am I right?
Vote: Auspice
We’re using Merits rather than Gifts to represent that sort of thing, for reasons of design philosophy.
Specifically: Merits are things that you have that are always on, Gifts are things you choose to use.
I really like this philosophy! It’s something that would solve a LOT of the niggling issues I have with Werewolf in all forms (no pun intended… More in terms of going back to classic Werewolf: the Apocalypse and Forsaken).
I’d like to vote for Idigam.
But I have a question. A lot of people had complaints about being forced to do Spirit stuff. I’m not one of them, but there’s definitely an emphasis on real world hunts that should please them. That said, is the spirit now going to be an area werewolves solely go into to hunt? Or do we still have access to rituals and fetishes (I could imagine making them as a reason to hunt)?
Rites and fetishes and spirits still play a big part in Forsaken, and you’ve still got plenty of reasons for your characters to spend time in the Shadow. We’re focusing on werewolves having to interact with both worlds while being fully part of neither.
Auspice, please!
Auspice please.
Auspices.
So Gifts seem to be tied now to what Renown the character has spades in (Cunning for Irraka, etc.) Should be interesting. Shutdown is a great ability to prevent notice at times during the hunt.
With my vote, I’m curious about both, so I’m abstaining to see how it goes.
I want to say Auspices. But I’m gonna say Idigam. I’ll be bothered about this, but I really want to know about the Idigam. Even though Auspices should come first.
Shut up OCD, this is important.
Gods! I agree! The pattern would suggest Auspices, because it’s a natural progression of what we already know!
Auspices however feel… I mean, they can’t change them THAT much, can they?
Idigam need a bit of a freshener however, and I’m more curious about them.
Idigam!
Auspices, please.
First off, Auspices, after that, (almost) all key parts of the Wolf shall be known, and we can start running around and poking at Fun Stuff.
Second, i think i like Gifts now, but more so than other powers, I feel like I now need to see a big list of them to really get a handle on them. I mean, Disciplines, you could just show off Dominate and its a discreet fully realized thing. Here the Gifts seem to tie in to each other, and into Renown more, which will probably be neat, but means we need a bunch of the Gifts. I’ll have to see several Cunning Facets and how they tie together, and how those weigh in against Purity Facets of the same Gifts to see how things work.
Oh, and a question, do you have to take some step to ‘unlock’ a Gift before you can start buying/acquiring its Facets? I don’t _think_ so, but some of the wording made me wonder…
Yes, there is a specific step to unlock a Shadow Gift (not applicable for Moon or Wolf Gifts). Unlocking a Shadow Gift immediately gives you one of its Facets.
Auspices, please.
Can we still recreate the effect of Snarl of Command with a facet of Dominance or something like that?
I like everything else about the Elodoth gift, and especially how it provides more muscle to the diplomacy side of their role, but I will miss dramatic Snarl of Command moments if they’re gone.
So will gifts use the same Clash of Wills system that Blood and Smoke implies is a universal constant, rolling Primal Urge + Renown or something?
Also, Auspices.
Yes, the Clash of Wills system is in Werewolf.
Show me the Auspices!
Auspices, please!
Gotta say the new gift system went in a direction I did not expect. I love that buying renown gets you a free Gift in either your Auspice or one of the Shadow/Wolf Gifts. The gifts draft is pretty sweet as well, were as in W:tF (without house rules) half the gifts have a use only once in a while, if your lucky… each and every one of these gives me a dozen ideas as to their use. Bravo.
Auspices! This Cahalith Iron Master must know of his future.
Idigam!
I do like the new aproach to Gifts, there are some of them that scream “horror movie trope” and that’s awesome.
Ah, I like this….a lot, actually. I really like how facets creates the impression of gifts manifesting differently depending on the individual werewolf’s background and duty in the pack. It seems to allow for greater freedom to match your abilities to your character’s…well…character!
It also seems to me like facets allow for more broader development of gifts than before. I get the impression that each gift could potentially contain an almost limitless amount of facets beyond the five “official” ones. After all, the scopes of concepts like stealth, nature, technology etc. can be very broadly defined.
So if my Irraka Bone Shadow wants some more cunning stealth facets it doesn’t feel like too much trouble to invent some of my own. That being said, I would be interested to know if the Idigam Chronicle (or a later book) will include guidelines for creating your own facets?
Aaaargh, I wanna vote for both!!!! But since I have to choose I’ll go with the Idigam!
I’m happy to go over some design guidelines for creating Facets on the Werewolf forum, although you’ll probably want to wait and see the whole Gift section first 🙂
I think that’s the kind of thing we can stick on the devblog once the book’s out, along with ways to integrate them.
I could just say “a future book”, but I’ve got at least four that I want to do now and I think people might want to see it before then. 🙂
Ah, great! So we’ll probably get guidelines in form or another. That will be very helpful. But yeah, that should probably wait until we get the full Gift section.
So far I really like what I’m hearing about this new book. I can’t wait to see the finished product. Thanks guys, and keep up the good work. 🙂
Idigam, I’m too intrigued
This… is interesting. Really curious as to what the Full Moon gifts are like.
Also, you mention wanting to tailor things to being focused on the hunt. Does that mean the team is not doing what the Blood and Smoke chronicle did, where no powers or abilities were lost, just moved to new merits or similar, or not?
AUSPICES!
There was a lot of chaff and space-filler in the old Gift lists. With the new Gift system, there’s neither a place nor a need for a lot of them, and so I was pretty merciless in cutting out the dead weight entirely.
So just to Clarify:
– A werewolf character starts out with one Moon Gift determined by her Auspice, two Shadow Gifts chosen from a list determined by her Tribe, and the two Wolf Gifts.
– Whenever a character earns a dot of Renown, she gets a free Facet in one of the Shadow or Wolf Gifts she already knows.
– Whenever a character earns a dot of her Auspice’s favored Renown, she gets the next dot in her Moon Gift and a new Shadow Gift.
– Additional Shadow Gifts and Facets can be bought with Experiences.
Is that all accurate?
Assuming this is all correct and I didn’t misunderstand something, the questions I am left with are:
– Does the free Facet you get from buying a Renown dot have to be associated with that type of Renown, or can you buy a dot of Glory and get a Purity Facet?
– Do you still get a free Facet in one of your Shadow Gifts when you buy a dot in your Auspice Renown?
When you get a dot in your Auspice’s favoured Renown, you get the next dot in your Moon Gift and a Facet in a Shadow Gift that you possess.
On your other questions:
– Currently, if you buy a dot of Glory, your free unlock is a Glory Facet.
– Yes, you get a free Shadow Facet when you get a dot in your Auspice Renown, as above.
Auspices, please.
Are there still Wolf Gifts that let the Urathra inflict aggravated damage?
Auspices.
You’ll have to wait and see, but in general I have followed the lead that Blood & Smoke provided in reducing the prevalence of sources of Aggravated damage.
Auspices, auspiciously,
I also wanted to say that this blog has made me REALLY excited about Werewolf, and I ain’t never been excited about no Werewolf.
Idigam, you fools! 🙂
My vote is for Idigam!
Really liking the changes to Gifts, can’t wait to see more.
My vote is for Idigam, please.
Auspices.
I don’t understand – in the end will werewolves’ powers equall to normal 5dot powers?
I’m not sure I understand the question.
A Moon Gift goes from 1 to 5 dots.
A Shadow Gift has five Facets, but they’re all at the same level.
Idigam!
So read through the Gift lists and some random thoughts:
Half Moon Gifts are neat. I like how they build on the premise of being not just social powers but social /networking/ powers. And how they play on hunting people down via those routes, fishing out truth and all that. The top power is also neat in that it plays on working with a group, and does teleporting much more interestingly than just a bamf power. Has great potential ambush potential too.
New Moon Gifts are also neat for being solid through and through, and allowing for all sorts of horror movie tropes to happen. Causing groups to fall apart, and then picking htem off feels very fitting, and the “Ninja vanish!” aspect of Breach is neat also.
Nature Gifts do much more than they originally did and i like it. The way each power is about three dots helped in making them all feel strong, and I like how the structure reminds me a bit of the Mummy Invocations without being quite as tiered. I was worried a bit in the general descirption in seeing Death having one that makes you just seem like a corpse, so seeing a set of powers that all do stuff and synergize well is nice to see. Nature’s Lure does overlap with the fourth New Moon Facet though, so curious to see how they’re balanced to one another.
The Technology ones are neat, but seem to need a bit more range fo examples. What’s counted as technology? Do guns, computers, and the lot count? If I curse someone to have all their gear break, will they no longer be able to even operate firearms for instance? Does it require electornics? What.
I think in both these Gifts, and probably in Gifts that impact a simlar thing, it might help to have just a brief description of the thing they manipulate more. So what from the get go Nature is for the purposes of Nature’s Gifts and what difficulty modifers advanced or simple technology does for Technology’s Gifts. Not all annoyingly exhaustive Exalted 2e corner-case covering style, but just enough to kind of a get an idea of where they work best and such.
As for the strucutre, Renown and how it works in this intrigues me a bit and I’m kind of wondering what will happen in other aspects of doubling-up as that happens. But still, good stuff so far.
As for what next week, I actually want to see Idigam. See hwat the enemies out there are.
And stuff.
Is it just me or does the 4-dot New Moon gift, Divide & Conquer, and the Cunning aspect Of Nature, Nature’s Lure, seems awfully similar?
I guess one is more focused on separating one from the group and the other is just to lure someone a certain area, but it still seems to be some major overlap between the two. I suppose the Nature’s Lure one could be seen as the version available to non Irraka werewolves.
Idigam!
Absolutely Idigam!
Asking Steve: I didn’t understand, how Purity •• affect Shadows Gifts?
And how werewolves will survve without 4 and 5 dotpowers?
Serious Answer: These three dot gifts have some serious oomph, and many of them are converted from the three or higher list of Gifts to begin with. I don’t think you need to worry about the power.
Not-As-Serious Answer: By ripping everyone else apart.
“Stew” not “Steve”. We don’t talk about Steve. Not since I walled up the basement door, anyway.
Purity is part of the dice pool of all Purity facets of Shadow Gifts. If it doesn’t need a roll, it uses the Renown’s dots directly. So increasing your Purity Renown makes all the Purity Facets of your Shadow Gifts better.
Also? Moon Gifts still have 4- and 5- dot powers. Shadow Gifts are designed to all be as useful as one another.
Also also? Werewolves are very good at surviving.
..yeah can I just pay you guys double and get my copy of the awesome now?
Also I vote Auspices
for next Forsaken Saturday I would like Idigam
Iiiinteresting! Very nicely done! 🙂
I’m still a little fuzzy on the details, though, especially with regard to “buying in”. Is that just an XP spend (and do you get a Facet when you do that, or is it just a sink?)
And what happens if you get a point of Renown, but you already have all of the associated Facets for the Gifts you currently have access to? (Eg: you’ve got the Purity Facet for Technology and Nature, and you’ve just earned another dot of Purity. What then?)
Also: Auspice, baby! Gotta round out the basics!
(Also also: Kuruth!!)
You get a Facet when you buy in to a new Gift.
I haven’t yet made it explicit in the draft but I’m thinking that, if you already have all the associated Facets, you probably just bank the free one from your Renown until such a time as you have a new one to pick.
Like!
And thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions, too. It’s sounding really good to me (even if there aren’t any particulars on what else is involved in “buying in”… :))
I vote for Auspice next.
Steve write that it’s not the final version of Gifts. May be it’s would be better provide a combined system? For example, if there will be some Battle gifts, the Pure Battle give bonus dices to attack (for example, your highest Renown), while Cunning Battle let you ignore enemy’s Defence and Wisdom Battle let you analyze the stats of one of your enemy (just see its char-list, at least those stats, which can be used for fight).
I am really excited about the changes to Gifts. I love the way that each facet is tuned to each auspice. It lends the auspice roles even more significance without completely limiting the powers to that auspice only. Such flavorful offerings, such as adding predators to your pack and shutting down technological protections, really spark my imagination. I also really like how you’ve focused them down to the hunt. I love the original Forsaken, but this new spotlight on the hunt itself gives werewolves a bit more of a narrow niche and I think that actually helps them feel a little more in line with the other games.
My vote is for auspice. It’s one of my favorite facets of the game and I can’t wait to see how you’ve refined it!
Guess I am the lone Dissenter – Absolutely HATE the direction that Gifts have gone. But then, I never had a problem with Original Gifts at all, and in fact liked them and their implementation immensely.
Auspices Please.
I have a philosophical question: doesn’t this new design prevent me from focusing on being good at a certain subsection of things, without being good at EVERYTHING (much like the current system forces you to invest extremely heavily into all Renowns because of the seemingly-random assignment of them to various Gifts)?
For example, if I want a character who’s just super, super good at stealthiness… I still need all five Renown traits at a high value to be really good at using all 5 Stealth Gifts.. and then I’m really good at using *any* Gift. What was the reason for standing by this design? It has been one of the most commonly complained about things I’ve seen in the WtF community that Renown is such an experience sink and doesn’t allow specialization.
Also, I vote Affinity.
What were previous one-note Gifts like Stealth now tend to have a broader spread of applications. If you ‘just’ want to be very good at being personally Stealthy, you won’t need all the Facets of Stealth.
I have a philosophical question: doesn’t this new design prevent me from focusing on being good at a certain subsection of things, without being good at EVERYTHING (much like the current system forces you to invest extremely heavily into all Renowns because of the seemingly-random assignment of them to various Gifts)?
For example, if I want a character who’s just super, super good at stealthiness… I still need all five Renown traits at a high value to be really good at using all 5 Stealth Gifts.. and then I’m really good at using *any* Gift. What was the reason for standing by this design? It has been one of the most commonly complained about things I’ve seen in the WtF community that Renown is such an experience sink and doesn’t allow specialization.
Also, I vote Auspices.
Apologies for the double-post. Not sure how I managed that.
Overall, seems like a much easier to use system. I like it.
For next week, I vote Idigam.
Idigam please. I really want to know if/how they are being changed.
Love a lot of this. The Cunning Gifts in particular are great – Nature’s Lure is fantastic, if close to the 4th Irraka gift. I was never a fan of less wolfish, more magey gifts – I wanted it more wolfish – and all the Irraka gifts/most of the Nature list fits in brilliantly.
I do wonder at the reliance on renown. But then – if renown is kept – it is a good way to boost garou – are their passive benefits to renown? Solely for Siskur-Dah/Garou/Kuruth?
Vote: Allspices, pliss!
This new Gift idea is awesome. I can’t wait to see how what the Strength Gifts/ Facets look like.
Vote: I’ll try this again, Auspice.
This new Gift idea is awesome. I can’t wait to how what the Strength Gifts/ Facets look like.
Vote: I’ll try this again, Auspice.
Sorry about the double post. 😛
Me too.
The physical disciplines in B&S are VERY powerful, I hope that the new uratha will become what they deserve: the perfect hunters, like the kindred in B&S.
Hope that the various forms will tear apart the majority of enemies.
OH PLEASE do Auspices next! We know WHAT a wolf hunts by its tribe, but I want to see how you are changing the ways they can hunt.
Just be clear, Auspice next please.
*fingers crossed*
Definitely want to see more about Auspices!
As a friend just pointed out, Nature’s Lure, the Cunning Facet for the Gift of Nature, is missing its Exceptional Success result.
Er… Look over there, a bear!
Actually that might work as an exceptional success result 🙂
I vote Auspice.
Idigam
I still have my reservation over Gifts and I am waiting for you to answer ome of the questions people made before me.
Vote: Idigam (come on!! That is what th book is called about!)
Are there any particular questions that haven’t yet been answered which you’re particularly interested in a response to? 🙂
Well I have some optinons not so much as questions. I will start what I think is good with this new Gift system:
– I love the new way to get Facets base on Renow, making Renow a cool new tool instead of just a tracking divice.
– I like some of the ideas specificly for the Moon Gift set.
– I love the idea that all Gifts are related with “The Wolf Must Hunt” which is the baseline of the game.
Saying this I will go with the “no” so possitive ideas about this Gifts examples.
– While playing Werewolf with my troop we found out that one of the really difficult parts of being Werewolf is social interaction. While Vampires have Dominate and Majesty and Mages have Mind and Prime, werewolfs lack almost any ability to make others do what they want.
– I understand “The Wolf Must Hunt” but social interaction is a way of hunting information somthing that I think this group of Gifts lack. Other than the Half-Moon gifts there is no social hunting.
– I would like to see a little more of “social hunting” if you ask me.
-From my perspective Irraka should get more social gifts since they are the representation of mischievous little bastards, caplable of lying, traping and making anything posible in order to win the battle.
Since Werewolfs don’t belong to neither the flesh nor the shadow the should be able to Hunt as well as a Spirit in the shadow and to Hunt as well as Human in the flesh. I by Hunting I mean the political aspect of being Human predator in a city. Where we all can agree that the bigger hunters in a big city would be politicians to be at top of everyone else.
My troop had one of each auspice in their pack. Mostly social interaction were restrictive for Elodoth since she was the one with all the social tools to hunt information without being discovered, without her they had a lot of trouble trusting the information they had aquired by other means.
Gifts like Death, Dominance, Insight, Inspiration and Knowledge include a fair number of Facets that are more focused on social and mental forms of hunting and interaction, much as how Gifts like Strength and Rage offer a greater combat focus. Obviously we’ve only revealed four Gift lists in this article out of a total of 22 🙂
The New Moon’s Gift focuses on the New Moon’s primary role in the hunt – but as the Cunning-focused Auspice, New Moons will generally be very good at the Cunning Facets of the aforementioned Gifts that focus on social and mental capabilities. You’ll find some of what you’re looking for in the various Cunning Facets across the board.
Auspices!
Auspices.
Idigam
Will there still be a gift that lets the Urathra do aggravated damage with his claws?
I refer you to my answer to your earlier question further up the comments page 🙂
Sorry, I missed it. B&S made aggravated less prevalent, but Demon made it more prevalent, available to starting chars and their allies. i figure the ultimate predators should be able to match that at some level.
Why not both?
But if a choice is to be made… tough one. I’d still rather have something of both xP
I’ll go with the Idigam, I guess.
Auspices preferably.
It feels like a lot of the things that should have been learned from the first incarnation of werewolf were ignored. Why does each gift still cost essence? Why do these gifts still have oddly specific triggers? (Only at the start of a hunt if the prey is at the edge of the wilderness) Why does the Purity facet of Technology gift rely on Glory for it’s effects? I feel disappointed.