And the winner, with a grand total of two people suggesting their names: the Glass Walkers! Which is an interesting group either way you look at it, because also they’re one of the few tribes that gets a bonus camp Gift list (now with corrected spelling. I hope).
Glass Walkers
Many Glass Walker Gifts involve Weaver-spirits of one type or another. This association grants the Glass Walkers great versatility and an unparalleled rapport with modern technology; hopefully, it’s enough to make up for the lack of respect with which other tribes view their pacts.
• Control Simple Machine (Level One) — The Garou may command the spirits of the simplest machines, causing levers to flip, doors to unbolt, pulleys to roll and so on. Any technological spirit can teach this Gift.
System: The player spends a Willpower point and rolls Manipulation + Crafts (difficulty 7). The Garou’s control lasts until the end of the scene.
• Diagnostics (Level One) — The Glass Walker can tell what is wrong with a machine at a glance. He can then enlist the aid of the machine’s spirit in repairing it. Any technological spirit can teach this Gift.
System: The character automatically succeeds at all attempts to diagnose the problem with broken technological devices. The player spends one point of Gnosis as the Garou mentally convinces the spirit of a broken device to aid her in fixing it. The time required to fix the device is halved, as are the number of successes needed to repair it.
• Persuasion (Level One) — As the homid Gift.
• Plug and Play (Level One) — All of the Weaver’s works are connected through the same web, the same song. The Glass Walkers exploit this truth to draw more power from the modern profusion of technology, making their devices compatible with almost everything. A Net Spider teaches this Gift.
System: The player spends one Willpower point. For the next day, any computer the Glass Walker uses — no matter how simple — becomes fully compatible with any other digital device, regardless of obstacles such as different operating systems, lack of physically compatible access ports, or even the complete absence of any means of receiving or interpreting a wireless signal. Generally, Glass Walkers use this Gift to turn their smart phones into omni-compatible access keys to computer networks, security feeds, and even car GPS systems.
• Trick Shot (Level One) — This Gift allows the Garou to execute brilliant feats of sharpshooting, such as shooting a weapon from an opponent’s hand or firing down the barrel of an enemy’s gun. The Garou cannot use this Gift to harm an opponent directly, however, and can use Trick Shot only with rifles or pistols. Air-spirits teach this Gift.
System: As a permanent enhancement, the player adds his character’s permanent Glory rating to his dice pool when performing a really outlandish shooting trick. Again, the Gift does not allow direct damage to targets (“I’ll shoot the armored fomor through the eye!”), but can be used to injure opponents indirectly (“I’ll shoot out the blacked-out window behind the vampire so the sunlight hits him!”).
• Cybersenses (Level Two) — The Garou may exchange his natural senses for those of machines, witnessing the world in ways more traditional werewolves could never imagine. He might exchange normal hearing for radar, or ordinary sight for infrared or UV vision. Any technological spirit can teach this Gift.
System: The player spends one Gnosis point per sense affected. This Gift lasts for one scene.
• Hands Full of Thunder (Level Two) — Many Glass Walkers regard the gun as the ultimate sign of the power of the modern age, and make pacts with the spirits to assure that their firearms do not become useless, primitive clubs in the midst of battle. A technological spirit or war-spirit teaches this Gift.
System: The player spends a point of Gnosis. For the rest of the scene, any gun the Glass Walker fires won’t run out of ammunition, so long as it has ammo to begin with. Fire discipline is still recommended with automatic weapons to keep the gun from overheating and jamming.
• Jam Technology (Level Two) — As the homid Gift.
• Power Surge (Level Two) — By speaking with electricity spirits, the Garou causes a blackout over a widespread area. An electricity elemental teaches this Gift.
System: The player spends one Gnosis point and rolls Wits + Science (difficulty 7). The number of successes determines how large of an area is blacked out. One success would black out a single room, while five would cut the power to a whole neighborhood.
• Steel Fur (Level Two) — Focusing on his own being, the Glass Walker wraps himself in spiritual steel, turning his fur into hardened metal. Metal or earth elementals teach this Gift.
System: The player spends one Willpower point and rolls Stamina + Science (difficulty 7). Each success adds one die to the Garou’s soak pool for the rest of the scene. While this Gift is active, the Garou suffers +1 difficulty to all Dexterity rolls, and any Social rolls not involving other Glass Walkers. This Gift only functions in Crinos, Hispo or Lupus forms.
• Control Complex Machine (Level Three) — Similar to Control Simple Machine, the Glass Walker may now converse with and command the spirits of electronic devices such as computers, smart phones, and cars. A net-spider teaches this Gift.
System: The player spends one Willpower point and rolls Manipulation + Science or Computer. The Storyteller sets the difficulty based on how complex the machine is (8 for a standard laptop). The Garou’s control lasts for one scene.
• Intrusion (Level Three) — It’s impossible to keep a cockroach out of a house, and equally impossible to keep out a Glass Walker with this Gift. Once activated, this Gift allows the Glass Walker to open any barrier presented to her: doors unlock at her approach, padlocks fall open with no explanation. A cockroach-spirit teaches this Gift.
System: The player spends one point of Gnosis and rolls Gnosis (difficulty 7). For exactly one minute afterward, all forms of locks and barriers allow her passage, from computerized vault locks to barricades of 2x4s nailed up across doors. Mystically sealed barriers still require a roll to bypass, but every success on the initial Gnosis roll adds one automatic success to such attempts. Barriers disabled by this Gift do not automatically re-seal themselves.
• Electroshock (Level Three) — The Glass Walkers are the tribe of glass, steel and electricity. This last element can be used to directly damage opponents that the Glass Walker can either touch, or who are touching a conductive material such as metal or water. An electricity-spirit teaches this Gift.
System: The player spends a number of Rage points. Each point of Rage spent inflicts two levels of aggravated wounds on the Glass Walker’s opponents. These levels of damage may be divided among as many opponents as the number of Rage points invested in this Gift. As usual, the character cannot spend more Rage than half of his permanent rating in one turn.
• Elemental Favor (Level Three) — By begging, threatening or cajoling an urban elemental, a werewolf can convince the spirit to do her a favor by manipulating or even destroying its earthly shell. Thus, a glass sheet might explode at the Garou’s foes; a door might refuse to open, even if unlocked; or a car’s brakes might fail. An urban elemental teaches this Gift.
System: The player rolls Charisma + Subterfuge (difficulty 7). The Storyteller determines the precise effects.
• Attunement (Level Four) — As the Bone Gnawer Gift, but taught by a cockroach-spirit.
• Doppelganger (Level Four) — The Garou may take the exact likeness of any other human, wolf or Garou. A chameleon-spirit teaches this Gift.
System: The player spends one Gnosis point and rolls Charisma + Performance (difficulty 8). Traits aren’t duplicated, but everything else, including voice, posture and scent, are identical. The effects last for one day per success (though the Garou may end them at will).
• Signal Rider (Level Four) — From the telegraph to the cell phone, the Glass Walkers have always kept up good relations with spirits of cutting-edge communication. This Gift allows the Garou to open a moon bridge which rides the back of a telephone signal, transporting her instantly to the location of whoever is on the other end of the line. A Pattern Spider teaches this Gift.
System: The player spends one Willpower and one Gnosis to open the moon bridge. The Garou must have a connection between a telephone at her location and one at the target destination to use this Gift, although it doesn’t discriminate between landlines or cell phones — some werewolves have even reported success in riding the back of online conferencing software, although doing so successfully requires a Wits + Computers roll (difficulty 7). Signal Rider can take the character no more than (Gnosis x 5) miles—if the other end of the line isn’t within that range, the Gift fails.
• Tech Speak (Level Four) — This Gift allows the Glass Walker to contact others through any technological device. The Garou speaks to a Pattern Spider in or near a technological device and tells them the message to be delivered and whom it should be delivered to. The Pattern Spider then finds the receiver and uses any communications technology near them to deliver the message; phones yell it out (without picking up the handset or needing to be turned on), electronic billboards display it, computer printers print it out as text. If no communications technology is present, any other technology will activate, though no message will be imparted. If no technology whatsoever is present near the receiver, the Gift fails. A Pattern Spider teaches this Gift.
System: The player spends a Gnosis point and rolls Charisma + Science. The difficulty depends on the distance the message needs to be sent: The next room is difficulty 4, the same building 5, one block away 6, one mile away 7, a time-zone away 8. Beyond that is difficulty 9. The more successes achieved, the longer the message can be. A single success will only allow one word to be sent, five would allow unlimited length.
• Chaos Mechanics (Level Five) — Werewolves pulse with the Wyld’s energy, but all creatures with form and nature have something of the Weaver in them as well. Upon learning this Gift, the Glass Walker reconciles these aspects of his being, enabling him to summon primal energy and mystical form at the same time. Luna, who balances mercurial chaos into an orderly cycle of phases, sends the most powerful of her Lunes to teach this Gift.
System: A werewolf with this Gift may use Rage and Gnosis in the same turn with no penalty. This Gift’s effects are permanent.
• Summon Net-Spider (Level Five) — The Garou carries a great technological blessing, granting him an intuitive understanding of the ways of computers; additionally, he can summon a Net-Spider, a Weaver spirit that gives its summoner near-absolute control over any computer system. The Spider can disrupt, erase or destroy whatever system it is sent into (the exact effects are left to the Storyteller, but are typically destructive). An avatar of Cockroach teaches this Gift.
System: The player spends one Gnosis point and rolls Charisma + Computer (difficulty 8). If successful, the Net-Spider appears and heeds the Garou’s commands. In addition to the destructive power of the summoned spirit, this Gift allows the Garou to permanently halve the difficulty of all rolls to use, build, or hack computers.
[BEGIN BOXED TEXT]
Boli Zousizhe Gifts
A Chinese offshoot of the Glass Walkers, the Boli Zousizhe are somewhat more traditional than their ever-changing Western cousins, and employ several ancient Gifts rarely seen among other branches of the tribe.
• Sheng-Nong’s Eyes (Level One) — The Boli Zousizhe can see from the perspective of his tools and draw on their concentration for the task at hand, allowing him to perform multiple actions with ease. While this was originally used to wield two swords with equal dexterity, any tools can be used; even the werewolf’s own hands count as a “tool.” Either a monkey-spirit or a spirit of war teaches this Gift.
System: The player spends one Gnosis point to receive an extra action. For the rest of the scene, the Garou need not be able to see his opponents in order to attack them. No visibility modifiers or off-hand penalties affect his actions while this Gift is in effect.
• Fu Xi’s Honor (Level Two) — When confronted with a threat to a helpless member of the werewolf’s family or pack, the Boli Zousizhe can rise above her normal limits to defend them. The spirit of any animal that mates for life may teach this Gift.
System: The Storyteller must agree that the member of the Garou’s family or pack is indeed helpless and unable to defend himself. (With rare exception, any human facing a werewolf should be considered helpless.) The player may then spend one Rage and add one die to all her character’s Physical Attributes for every point of permanent Honor the character possesses for the duration of the scene.
• Yao’s Commands (Level Three) — As the Glass Walker Gift: Elemental Favor. When this Gift is taken, the Boli Zousizhe must choose to be able to command Eastern elementals (water, wood, fire, earth and metal) or urban elementals. The character may never command elementals of the other group.
• Yu’s Endurance (Level Four) — Yu was given the tremendous task of protecting Ancient China against the Yellow River flooding, so exhausting a task that none but he could do it. This Gift is identical to the Get of Fenris Gift: Heart of the Mountain.
• Huang Di’s Sacrifice (Level Five) — Whilst Huang Di was known for his inventions, he was also the Yellow Lord and a great leader. Normally used by the pack’s alpha, this Gift allows a leader to revitalize his followers in moments of darkness. This Gift is taught by only one spirit, who lives at the foot of Bull Mountain and cries eternally. It resembles nothing, and only teaches the Gift at sunrise.
System: The Boli Zousizhe spends two points of Gnosis and rolls Stamina + Leadership (difficulty 8). Each success allows one packmate to heal a number of health levels (even aggravated) equal to the number of successes rolled.
[END BOXED TEXT]
I’m really liking these new 1st rank Gifts. Plug and Play will be really useful ^^
ADDING: I’m liking the Gifts so much, because they are the type you WANT to pick from the list, because you definetly see the use for it. Fangs of Justice in combat, and Plug and Play for any clever ragabash. Both feel like must haves, which is really good. Keep these coming for the other breeds/auspices/tribes.
Very glad I made the suggestion! These were some awesome gifts!
I love that plug and play basically allows you to be every hacker on TV. While also acknowledging that those hackers are completely unrealistic in mundane reality.
The way that TV writers tend to approach technology seems like a pretty modern version of animism anyway. Technobabble isn’t about explaining things to the audience, its about appeasing the spirits and trying to convince them your cause is true.
I’m putting those words in the mouth of the next glass walker theurge I run and/or play.
Actually, that phrase should make it into the book. It is an nice suggestion for Glass Walkers, especially Theurges, but also steers towards an “it’s magic, don’t try to explain it”.
While there should be limits to such an approach to keep the game playable and sort of balanced, it is a nice way to bypass any discussions regarding “what makes sense, scientificly speaking”.
Also I am pretty sure W20 is now the only game in the world where sometimes, when you get a call from a number you don’t recognize, an angry werewolf flies out of your phone.
You mean that’s never happened to you?
It has other uses. “Mr. Wizard, get me the hell out of here!”
I really like these gifts.
First off all -they feel unique.
Secondly they use the city and technology; GW strengths, extensively.
And lastly, some of those gifts like fu’xi’s honour scale very well with ranks making them a real must have.
The lack of gifts scaling up with rank has been one of the missing parts in W:tA for ages.
I could hug you for it <3
I know I brought this up when the Auspice gift post hit but, persuasion, again? I mean I hate to be “that guy” about it but we got a (pretty awesome otherwise) preview of a Breed, Auspice and Tribe but they all share a gift.
I love this game always have and I’m very excited about the upcoming book, but this is disheartening. We couldn’t get a couple more new gifts, or even a reworking of existing ones rather than simply tossing persuasion around to everyone? Is that just a gift that everyone is going to have and if so why?
I might be coming off ungrateful and it’s not my intent. I’m saying something because I care, always have and I hope this book will be everything it could be.
I know where you got your name from, Zylo.
Anyway, it’s merely luck of the draw that we got Philodox (along with Galliard, one of the most-requested auspice lists) and Glass Walkers (as I said, the most-requested tribe list). But honestly, I don’t want to take any of the really classic standards away from the tribes, either. If more people had voted Get, you would have seen a tribe list without it.
“I know where you got your name from, Zylo.”
You know, I do believe you said the exact thing to me, what 14 years ago?
More on point though, I hear you I just can’t say I agree sir.
I’ve always thought the bulk of the early Homid gifts were pretty weak tea and when I think of a early Walker gift, it’s not persuasion. They’ve been around and I get that, but I suppose this just comes from my view on the matter as I stated earlier.
“For a gift to be passed around like that makes it less special, and that was all well and good back in the days when we had new source books coming out. If this is the last of Werewolf, a celebration of twenty years then I think everything about it should be special. ”
Thanks for your time Ethan, you know I’ll be sitting here eagerly with my preorder either way.
Zylo Mandrake?
Zylo-Kills-The-Foe (or more often than not, just plain Zylo), once upon a time I was somewhat of a regular back in the HTML chat days. That said I believe I have a vague recollection of Mr. Mandrake.
Ahh. The Zylo I knew was a part of my gaminggroup on the HTML chats. Thanks for clearingthat up. 🙂
No problem at all, you guys were out of Vampire weren’t you, and if I’m correct here it was about 98-99?
Yeah my “crowd” fell into the OOC rooms, which was really more of some sort of IC/OOC hybrid. One of the early revamps of the rooms didn’t include general WoD rooms so we just took over one of the OOC rooms.
Ahhh. Nope. We were a Werewolf group useing the City hall and Morgue rooms (just the rooms not as settings) that were empty, before the Open rooms existed. We didn’t know they were a part of the Vampire game until we were ratted out and told to move. Not that the old rooms saw much use after we switched to the new Open rooms anyways. I believe the years were 99-2002? 3? Something like that. Glad to see someone contributing from the HTML chat days.
I miss our Zylo and Mr. Wrench sometimes.
Well I do have a long memory, but clearly accuracy becomes a question at some point. I remember when they changed formats to the city. It was absolutely pretty cool and negated the need for us to hang in the OOC rooms, not that it stopped us (There was a point where the rooms were set by game without a general WoD one, which is what made us take OOC in the first place).
I took off sometime in 2000 but would rarely show up after though I started pretty much at the start, I want to say ’96 maybe ’97? There were some good times and some really great people. I think it’s a shame that there aren’t more of us “old guard” on here speaking up (even if it is to ramble on at this point). I know I’d feel better about the future of the line to know that those people never really went away. But all we can do is give our feedback and show our support, here’s hoping this isn’t the last.
if possible I’ll try and dig up at least a few more Old guard players to come check this out. At the very least I know a few old GW players from our game are still around in some mirror chat or another. Anything to keep showing our interest in this company and product line.
Persuasion is in the GW list because they’ve had Persuasion since the 1e corebook. Philodox got it because it is ridiculously germane to the work their Auspice performs. A homid Philodox isn’t going to care, of course, but that’s a HEAVY boon for a lupus Philodox.
(I’m not happy that Glass Walkers have a pair of homid Gifts in their Tribe list, personally, since like 95% of the Tribe are homids, but they’ve been there since day one, and they do make sense for the tribe. Eh.)
I’m not asking why “that gift” and I know Persuasion has a history (I’ve got that same copy of Core 1 on the shelf behind me) and you can make the arguments as to why it goes in all the places it does.
For a gift to be passed around like that makes it less special, and that was all well and good back in the days when we had new source books coming out. If this is the last of Werewolf, a celebration of twenty years then I think everything about it should be special.
It also dawns on me that I somehow couldn’t be bothered to say anything positive and oops, so I wanted to fix that. I (again aside from my using other gifts thing) think this was a great selection, I like the new gifts.
It’s nice to see trick shot so that the Glass Walker player of my current group can continue to brag about how insane trick shot will be once he maxes out his glory.
Also finally I’m curious, why the Boli Zousizhe? Or rather are we only getting the Boli Zousizhe or are we looking at the other camps also? Expanding on that with the shifting nature of the Glass Walker camps should we expect to see a new one or at least another shift in power through the tribe?
Apocalypse has about a bajillion camps rolling around, so including Gifts for all of them, or even half of them, or even 1/5th of them is simply impractical if we want to have things like rites, fetishes, Banes, etc, in the book. As a result, the only “camps” that got their own little mini-lists here are the ones that are effectively more sub-tribes than proper camps–the Hakken, the Kucha Ekundu, etc.
(I’m a big fan of both the Hengeyokai and the Ahadi, and wanted to see them represented in W20 at least a tiny bit.)
Good call, I wasn’t necessarily advocating sections on the camps it’s like you said, takes up entirely too much space. I was just curious that is we were also getting camps with the off shoots.
I’ve got to wonder how much space is allotted for those “Sub-tribes” though. I’m sure it won’t be overpowering, I think I just still get nervous when the Hakken get brought up.
Oh, I’m glad to read you’re a fan of the regional sub-tribes, Hengeyokai, and Ahadi. That bodes well for their inclusion. And heck, if the Ahadi have had 10 more years to do stuff…. well that’s probably a question for a hypothetical Player’s Guide, I guess.
Personally, I love it. In 2012, if any tribe needs an update, it’s the GW. The new focus on communications is a must and I can only guess at the new rites in the vein of “appease the traffic God” we’ll get to see soon.
And I also love the concept of gifts that level up with you.
Loving it. Keep up the great work.
I’m quite glad that we are getting the Boli Zousizhe gifts. Some folks I’ve played with almost treat them like a different tribe and an acknowledgement of their slight difference gives the option to continue or ignore that as one wishes.
I’m going to put on the romanization stickler hat again – it should be Shennong. Also, does it allow for spending a limited amount of Gnosis as if it were Rage and cover the blind fire for the scene after spending one point, or does spending that one point provide one extra action for the rest of the scene along with the blind fire aid? I’m guessing the first function, but am not sure.
Hooray! Glasswalkers! I really like the focus here on the Glasswalkers being so tied to the city and the world/stuff that the Humans have made. Fun stuff! I just have a few comments, thoughts, and suggestions on things I have concerns with:
Hands Full of Thunder: I either want a
“Abuse of the nature of this Gift may result in the destruction of the weapon at the Storyteller’s Descression.”, or have a little more to the mechanics to keep this Level 2 gift from being game-breaking. For instance: Is every subsequent shot the same as the one that was put in it? Can I put one round of silver ammo into a mini-gun and it will fire endlessly with silver ammo? What about a battleship gun? Or a rocket-propelled grenade launcher? If the idea is that loaded and fired projectile weapon has endless ammunition then I think perhaps a little modification needs to be made somewhere so that it doesn’t get rediculously out of hand.
What about a maximum number of shots? (“A number of rounds equal to ten times the rank of the character who uses the Gift.” or “For each Gnosis spent, the gun contains one additional clip of ammunition as was originally loaded.”) Or a maximum catagory (“The weapon must be designed to fire multiple rounds without being reloaded.”) Or size (“The gun’s ammunition must be no larger than a shotgun/assault rifle.”), or properties of the Gift-created bullets? (“Any damage resulting from the Gift-created ammunition are to be treated as standard lead ammunition.”)
Power Surge: Does this effect ALL electical
items, or just things connected to the power grid? Back-up generators? Battery-powered items? (UBS, cell phones, pace-makers?)
Steel Fur: This reminds me of the Get’s “Troll Skin”, obviously. But I love the visual of a X-Men Collusus-looking Garou with smooth banded steel around him. Hot.
Elemental Favor: I REALLY want a mechanic on this. Is there ANYTHING in werewolf that could be used say “Works as X, but only within urban areas” or something? Some sort of “Favor” system somewhere in the W:tA system? I don’t know. Just giving a difficulty and leaving it completely up to the ST seems kinda flaky, IMO.
Doppleganger: How about “The Garou may take the exact likeness of another person who appears human, Garou or wolf. If that person is a Garou, they may appear exactly as that person, even in their other forms.” Since “Human” is a bit relative, this would mean that Kinfolk, Vampires, Ghouls, Formori, Mages, etc. and other shifters (at least their human form by this new wording) could be “doppleganged”. However, if the intent is to only appear as another Garou, then perhaps even changing the text to read “The Garou may take the exact likeness of any other Garou” would be better?
Chaos Mechanics: Holy crap! I see a lot of cross-tribal purchasing going on here. At level 5, I’m sure using Rage and Gnosis in the same round is something anyone would want! (use a Rage action AND activate a gift?!)
Boli Zousizhe? This is something new to me. Chinese Glasswalkers who are sort of a connection between the Beast Courts and Western Concordiate, and yet a mystery to both. I suppose, more importantly, this goes to show me just how detailed/deep the information on the Camps are going to be!
@Doppelganger
I think it would be fair to have the gift limited to appropriate forms. If taken the shape of a human, the garou should only look like that person in homid form. The gift isn’t meant to conceal crinos after all. However, if taking the shape of a Khan, than one’s crinos form may look Khan-like, too. However, it should only work, if one has seen that person (in that form) before. Celebrities are therefore easier to shape into as a person you never even met.
@Chaos Mechanics
The gift also seems appropriate for Stargazers. But besides that, the other tribes might not so easily know, that such a power exists. There might not be clues, visual or otherwise, regarding the fact, that a given glaswalker Elder possesses such power.
Hong Kong GW’s have been around since the 1st edition. Though I do like it that they’re finally given a proper gift list instead of standard GW-list and few odds and ends. I also agree with you that some of those gifts have a potential to be game-breakers without careful wording.
All five of their Gifts have existed since First Edition, too. But there has been very little information about them. Hengeyokai and Player’s Guide to the Changing-Breeds, at least, don’t say a lot — the focus is rather on Hakken and Stargazers. If there were a lot of details about them before now, they must have been covered in a Rage Across book or a tribebook, which is where I expect their Gifts were.
That said, I think there’s been even less information up till now about the Wangtong, the Chinese (mainland) Bone Gnawers. Are they going to get some attention and info in W20?
Sorry, I meant to say that all 5 Boli Zousizhe Gifts have been published before now. I don’t actually know the book or edition they came from.
I’m pretty sure they’re first introduced in either 1st GW-tribe book or Cairns places of power along with the Kitsune & Hakken.
Good points you brought up. I can see Hands of Thunder being abused. Unless of course the Gift stipulates only hand held weapons. But that still means a Crinos with a Gatling gun and one Silver round is going to overdo it.
Doppleganger….. I’ve seen one GW use it quite often to appear as her Younger 20-something self when in public. Otherwise she’s a scarred up 40-ish one-eyed Biotch. Also useful in the city when your lupus dopplegangs as a husky or German Sheppard to fool the authorities. While this does have some practical applications, it can get overused. Especially for Infiltration. “First I look like that Guard… Use Infiltrate, and now I look like that Pentex scientist…. now that guard there at the security station. Now Power Surge!! And now I dial out to my buddies two blocks away with Signal Rider.” (Provided they have the 6 Gnosis to spend and got a success each roll, it’s a one man monkey wrench.)
So I’m gonna hafta agree with limiting this one a bit more, even for level 4 Garou. I foresee problems with STing for a pack if one member gains level 4 before the rest and starts taking on missions on his own rather than working with the team simply because the right gift combination and successes will let him handle it by himself. Maybe the amount of time in the other copied form should be limited to a matter of minutes instead of lasting all day and dropped at will. That at least heightens the risk factor where even a success does not mean you can fool your target for very long.
Considering how high rank Doppleganger is, I’d say the elder should be a one garou monkeywrench machine.
Being just Level 4 makes it just low enough to be generally attainable by more than one member of the pack. As soon as one gets it though, then why should he need a pack anymore if half the city situations can be handled by one character? Not much pack unity if one person essentially becomes the Tank of Tanks at the drop of a Gnosis point. If there was a time limit there would be much less wiggle room for Gift abuse.
Here my thoughts:
I always had a problem with “Control simple Machine” as all parts of a complex machine are essentially simple. All to often players tried to manipulate the mechanism that holds the magazine in a given gun (while under fire), so the magazine would drop out. Should that be possible? Isn’t that what “Jam Gun” is for?
Some sentence to specify what “simple” is, would be nice…
“Plug and Play” reads nice, but some questions immediately arise. I use my smart phone with the gift and it allows for complete access to “any other digital device, regardless of obstacles such as […] the complete absence of any means of receiving or interpreting a wireless signal.” So, I have my smart phone with me and may access the NOC-List from CIA Headquaters systems without even leaving the caern? Can’t be right. It should bypass obstacles to access computers/electronic devices in the vicinity of the gift user. Meaning such systems, he has physical access to.
Also I’d prefer a roll that grants a duration increasing with the successes rolled, with 24h as equivalent to 5 successes. 1 minute being one success.
Also, it should be added, that the gift doesn’t bypass any security measures that were added to the system he wants to access (besides deliberately being without wireless connection or physical access), meaning encryption, virus protection, spirits bound in the system or Virtual Adepts living there.
Computers are a complex matter and play an increasingly large part in our lives. With V20 and V20 Companion addressing that fact, I would wish if it would also be addressed in W20. Having the hacking rules from Mage revamped and added to the drama section of W20 would be nice. But basically this gift deals with a larger topic and therefore needs some more explaining than provided here.
“Hands full of Thunder” should limit the ammunition to non-magic and non-silver munition only.
“Signal Raider” feels to limited with the Gnosis*5 miles limit. I find it suitable, that the gift has a limitation, but 10 or 20 miles seem more appropriate. Maybe increasing the range by spending more Gnosis/Willpower. Besides that, the new “Moon Bridge” description raises the question if there actually opens a moon bridge in the vicinity of the two points of the telecommunication, can the glaswalker take others with him?
Just think of the applications for signal rider… Makes it a hundred times easier ot sneak past the surveillance in high security sites if you’ve managed to get the guards cellphone number…
Just dial it up and pretend to be a magazine sales man or what ever to keep him on the phone and *whoosh, splat, bam* You’re in and out the way you came. No signs of breaking or entering. no nothing except prepaid mobile phone number if even that.
I think it’s good its only 20 miles max.
“Plug and Play” does say ‘compatible’ not ‘hack’. So you can access the CIA mainframe if it’s within your frame of reference (scene size or wireless range) but you’ve still got to get into it. I guess it depends if you narrow things down to Computer (which has a firewall) or Hardrive (which may be encrypted – I’d say encryption isn’t covered by compatibility).
Well the difference between compatible and hack and especially the range should be addressed more carefully, keeping in mind, that access usually requires that both devices are within each others range to keep a connection. However, since the gift even generates the ability to access a given system wireless, even if the system doesn’t normally have that capability, there should be a range given. For if not even a pre-C64 computer could send information around the globe or to outer space, without even having an antenna. That doesn’t make too much sense.
The gift should affect one system owned by the Glasswalker and one electronic device he has either physical access to or that is within Wireless range (peer to peer) of the system he owns. Either way, the glasswalker should need to know that that other system is present. The glasswalker shouldn’t just go like this:
“I connect my smart-phone to the surveillance device in the floor behind that door.”
“There isn’t any.”
“Willpower wasted. Anyway, I use ‘Strength of purpose’ and then we go on. Next room is clear.”
Like I said, the gift in essentially nice, but the function is described in a way, that can to easily be exploited.
I agree that the range of Plug and Play should be specified.
Also, it might be helpful to note some of the types of computers that are lying around that people might not be aware of: cars, refrigerators, even some houses have built-in computers that regulate them. Taking over a car’s computer probably won’t let you control where the thing goes, but you can mess up its navigation system and probably some other stuff.
I just found another use, possibly abuse, for Plug&Play. If I manage to get a voice connection going, one could use the gift to construct the means for using Signal Rider.
I think it should be more clearly stated, that one still needs to roll, to manipulate another system, even with Plug&Play, or to find files or such. And these should be more difficult, if the system is used in an unusual way.
Again, I suggest, MtA’s Computer Rules should be adapted for W20. Although, V20’s Computer Write-up is also very playable. In any case, the gift shouldn’t bypass that.
On Control Simple Machine:
Personally, I simply wouldn’t allow that use. The gift is an interaction with the spirit of the item, and there is no “spirit of the gun’s magazine release”. You would be interacting with the spirit of the whole gun, and you’d have to treat it as such. (Though it’s actually pretty unclear where guns fall on the complexity scale. There’s a lot of space between “levers and pulleys” and “cars and smartphones”)
Which actually would be my request for clarification: Can we set an upper and lower bound on complexity for those two gifts?
“Simple Machine” actually has a very specific meaning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_machine
Honestly i’d like to see a slight change in electroshock, being able to just electrocute anyone holding a sword, klaive, or has buttons on their clothing is a bit rough, especially with “No roll, take damage”.
I personally feel it should be anyone the glasswalker touches, or any person touching something conductive to the glasswalker. but that’s my opinion.
It is electroshock and not sith lightning after all.
The old gift of Heat Metal had the same flaws. I wonder if this is just a different version.
Nope, Electroshock isn’t new.
I’m curious how much of a restriction you’re putting on camps.
Several of the tribes are flush with them and many have only 1 or 2. The children of gaia shouldn’t really have camps and don’t have camp specific gifts, neither do the bone gnawers or the silverfangs.
If we’re limited to 20 gifts per tribe do the ones without camps get more general tribal gifts?
I’m crazy happy about the corporate wolves, wise guys 2.0, dies ultiame, cyberdogs et all but not if it means cutting space for the get, fianna and striders.
I guess as a followup is there a given percentage of “new” content that gets added to each section or is that just catch as catch can?
The new content vs old content ratio is largely determined by how good the Gifts from that tribe’s Tribebooks & etc was. Fewer iconic supplemental Gifts worthy of inclusion = had to make up more stuff to keep pace with the rest of the lists.
Again, for 99% of the camps, you will see absolutely nothing in W20 Gift-wise. The only ones who got some sidebar attention are the ones that are functionally sub-tribes.
I disagree on the on the Chilrdren of Gaia or Bone Gnawers not having camps or camp gifts.
In 2nd Edition they had. In revised it is said that Silverheels demanded the Children of Gaia camps to disband, however it isn’t clear if they did. After all the camps are sharing the same philosophy and one can’t order another to change one’s believes.
Bonegnawers still had camps.
Their respective revised Tribebooks had an insane amount of Tribal Gifts or both tribes. Some of these gifts suiting specific camps more than other camps or even the base tribe. One can’t stop wondering, if these gifts shouldn’t have been camp gifts and the authors just didn’t label them as such, leaving it once again to the STs to decide on such matters.
Yeah, I figure they would keep the CoG Camps around, both for games set BEFORE that incident and because some characters (PCs included) might go against True Silverheels and continue to associate with other like-minded Garou.
You’ll see a lot of camps mentioned. You won’t see a lot of space devoted to them, and you won’t see very many camp Gifts. It just gets into the realm of devoting word count to hyperspecialized content.
I believe there are three, maybe four camp Gift lists: the Boli, the Hakken, the Kucha Ekundu and the Siberakh (can’t remember off the top of my head if those last have specific Gifts or just a mix of Silver Fang and Wendigo). These guys are the most mechanically distinct camps, and also useful for settings other than the default Europe/Americas, which was a one-two that helped determine their inclusion.
Well, the Siberakh didn’t have a specific Gift list in Revised, unless I missed it somehow, but it would be cool either way. I’m really looking forward to the Kuchu Ekundu because they were awesome. Glad to see some non-Western stuff getting included when appropriate. Hopefully sales will justify having a W20 Companion and/or Chaning Breed book so that the Ahadi and maybe even India could get fleshed out a bit more.
Does that mean we’re gonna get a bit more info on the Siberakh? There really isn’t a lot on them (which in itself is a source of inspiration) and I personally always found them quite intruiging 🙂 Either, I do think it’s the first time they’ll have actual gifts mentioned, so i’m VERY happy with that. Thanks for that 🙂
Ooh, the possibility of Siberakh getting their own Gifts and more info is nice!
Will you include anything about the Wangtong? They’re probably as much a sub-tribe as the Boli Zousizhe are, but haven’t ever been fleshed out.
siberakh, Silver fang houses that never got more than a name mentioned, Wantong-bone gnawers, Na-dene stargazers, european Uktena, american Get… Yeah I think we might need another book to cover them all. 🙂
We-Chon Stargazers are extinct, though.
The Silver Fangs don’t really have ‘Camps’ as such. There were a couple, but they were vaguely defined philosophies, and didn’t really have specific Gift lists. On the other hand, they had Lodges and Houses (or Clans), all of which DID have specific Gift lists…
in revised:
Children of gaia had no official camps because of true silverheels calling to end them but they were listed anyway. And they also had no camp specific gifts.
Bone gnawers had camps but all of their gifts were loaded under tribal gifts so nothing camp specific.
Silverfangs have houses, camps, lodges and a spin off tribe in the Siberkhan, there are house gifts, lodge gifts, possibly some Siberkhan gifts but no camp gifts.
Intrusion sounds a lot like a Ragabash rank one gift called Open Seal. What’s the difference?
Is it just that Intrusion is automatic? Open Seal requires a roll if I’m not mistaken.
A roll for each single seal/lock etc.
However Intrusion is limited to things blocking the glaswalkers way. Open Seal on the other hand could be used to open shackles on another person or untie their shoes.
Or, with a small deficit in maturity, making the pack leader piss himself during a moot?
Thanks for the clarification.
Am I Late? Am I late? What’d I miss?!?!
Hi! I’d like to share my thoughts on these gifts. I see a lot of nifty ones and a lot of old ones retooled which makes me very happy.
Plug and play is a new one to me. All I can say there is it seems like a really powerful gift for just level 1. Reminds me of the Universal Key App from Sherlock. (watch it if you have no idea what I’m talking about.) Does this also mean you can access anyone else’s phone from your smart phone? I think this one needs some clearly defined boundaries.
Electroshock seems to be a different version of Heat Metal. (That one was always great fun when facing off with a Ravnos gang with tons of body piercings and all of them sitting on motorcycles. BOOM!) Again I run into the issue of having the lone GW out in the boonies with a motley of other tribes as packmates. Electroshock would probably be equivalent to having lightning strike the ground yes? Very, very bad for all in the immediate area.
I’m glad to see the GW gift Phone Travel from Player’s Guide first Ed has resurrected in the form of Signal Rider. I always did like that one for the “reach out and CRUSH someone” factor. I’m thinking the 5 mile distance is really kinda limited. Most phone plans these days toting Unlimited Long Distance calls and a Garou can’t get more than 5 miles? Distance and carrier signals seems like something Garou who regular surf the net figuratively and literally could overcome even with a Cell phone as opposed to an unbroken LAN Line or fiber-obtic cable. That’s just my feelings on the matter.
I should go back and read the Guts delving post about gifts, since some of my thoughts were probably already covered before, but I’ve always felt that in a Table Top game, the GW of the group was always the one on the short end of the stick as far as combat gifts went. The group would invariably wind up multi-tribal since everyone tends to have varying favorite tribes to play with. Which means the majority 9 times out of 10 would wind up being a wilderness or at least Boonies based game which the lone GW Urban Primitive the fish out of water. While the GW can bring a human-ccentric dynamic to the game, as soon as it comes to a battle, all the other tribes become powerhouses of offensive battle gifts while the Walker is left with Heat Metal and Cybersenses relying mainly on Auspice or Breed gifts for aggressive assault. (Unless of course the GW is a Galliard, then they becomes even more useless outside of a city. But that’s another discussion.
So I’m glad to see a change up in gifts.
I’m having a bit of a problem with Hands of Thunder though. It looks to me like the Fetish John Woo clip, but in gift form. And what if the gun has incendiary rounds? Or a grenade launcher? What qualifies as “gun”? A flame thrower has a lot of components as a gun. Handle, barrel, trigger, ammo. It just happens to have a different configuration and a few other parts as well. (I’ve been playing too many video games maybe)
Chaos Mechanics makes me go HUH?
It seems more like a Rite a high ranking GW might undergo to become an Elder or a Don. It’s effects are permanent. Does this mean it’s a one shot and once used never ends? Reconciling the Weaver and Wyld aspects of themselves seems more like something every GW would want to attain for the Renown of it.
Hmmm think that’s all I can think up for now. I’m so excited to see where this project is going. Thanks so very much Ethan and all of the rest of the hard working people on the 20th anniversary team.
Hands of Thunder seems to be a re-working of the Gift ” Garafena’s Crown?”, only without a need for a crown of some sort. I had the same concerns with “what can it continue to fire?” too.
It’s also sorta akin to the level 1 Fetish Golden Pockets, only with ammo instead of money. 😉
Now see, there was a GW gift like that. Pennies from Heaven.
Someone else has posted this, and I sort of have to agree: I would like to see a Gift or two for Glasswalkers that let them interact among the Humans a bit more easily–hiding their Rage in some way? I think there’s a CoG gift that’s similar that takes away another’s Rage, but it seems like Glasswalkers should have something that lets them walk among the people. Maybe something like:
• “Sheep’s Clothing” (Level 2) — There comes a time when even the wolf needs to move freely among the sheep without raising suspicion. However, The Curse of the Garou’s Rage makes that difficult at times. By using this Gift, a Glasswalker can walk more freely among the humans without her Rage causing her problems. However, it takes a lot of determination on the part of the Glasswalker to hide that energy from others.
System: The player spends one temporary willpower for every 2 points of Rage she wishes to hide for one scene.
or
System: The player may spend one Willpower point to hide the Garou’s effects of those effected by The Curse due to a Garou’s Rage for one scene.
(You could also add a WP roll, and number of successes at diff:X could be how many hours a Garou can hide it.)
or
System: The player may spend one Willpower point and roll her permanent Willpower, difficulty 7. For each success, those effected by The Curse react as if her Rage were one lower for the rest of the scene.
… you get the gist. 🙂
Check back to the homid gifts they have a bury the wolf gift that does what you’re looking for.
Thanks! I KNEW I had read it somewhere! 🙂
(Reading it over, I now have some issues with it, so I’ll post those concerns there. 🙂 )
Is Electroshock meant to be an automatic attack? It doesn’t specify in the system portion of the Gift if any roll is necessary to successfully affect an opponent. Also, does this Gift affect all persons touching an affected conductive material, or only the user’s foes?
quote/
“Each point of Rage spent inflicts two levels of aggravated wounds on the Glass Walker’s opponents. These levels of damage may be divided among as many opponents as the number of Rage points invested in this Gift” quote. There you go Odanuki. It plainly states, no rolls needed, direct aggravated damage to ones you choose to/can touch.
Even though electroshock isn’t “mundane electricity” I’d be interested to know if it can be applied to harm electronic devices and or ignite things via heat & sparks.
Plug and Play and Signal Rider are great additions. I love that GW get a Matrix phone-travel Gift.
THANK YOU for spelling Boli Zousizhe the reasonable way. 🙂 And for giving them Gifts.
+1
I had a discussion about Cybersenses a while back and the gift has some potential for either abuse or conflict due to imprecise wording.
Radar, for example, is based on Radio, which is a electromagnetic wave, and if UV and Infra-red are visual, Radio waves should be too.
Also, it requires (usually) to send an impulse signal and measure the echo. So, is the gift supposed to grow an organ that can emit such waves to this?
And if so, can the glaswalker choose the frequency of the com-units of the Fomori Strike Team, so that their communication is hampered or even impossible due to jamming?
What about Superman-like X-Ray-Vision? Could a glass walker opt for such and emit x-rays, influencing everyone’s electronics and promote cancer?
Therefore I find the gift description should read like this:
“The Garou may exchange his natural senses for those of machines, witnessing the world in ways more traditional werewolves could never imagine.
He adjust his normal hearing for frequencies above or below the spectrum human’s usually hear as well as opt to hear feint sounds, filter out ambient noice or hear like his ears were a directional microphone. His ordinary sight might shift from visible light to infra-red, UV or even radiowaves, allowing the discern active radios or cell phones to which he has line of sight. Any technological spirit can teach this Gift.
System: The player spends one Gnosis point per sense affected. This Gift lasts for one scene.”
Further examples like cangeing the sense of taste for some chemical analysis or perceiving magnetic or electric fields instread of the skin’s touch sensation, for example. It all sounds a little Shadowrun, but they are the Glass Walkers after all.
Either way, a limitation to passive sensors in excange for a sense should be part of the gift description.
I’m pretty sure it’s meant to portray “super hero”-like abilities such as bat like hearing, x-ray vision… You know the stuff from Marvel & DC comics and tv-shows such as 6-million dollar man or Wonder woman.
And it does state that the new sense exchanges the chosen existing sense not augment it for a scene. The way I read it; you will get that radar hearing, UV-sight or what ever but you won’t hear normal talk or see anything else which you would normally do with that sense for a scene then.
I agree that it replaces the sense, but my approach does that too. If the range of frequencies the glass walker can perceive in the electro magnetic spectrum moves from visible light to infrared, he looses the ability to see normally.
And I agree, that it is meant for some super-hero-like perception stuff, but up to what limit ?
Marvels Daredevil claps his fighting sticks to get make an sound and get his echolocation-like sense working. That is, because Frank Miller wanted him to be extraordinary, but his powers not as unbelievable as Superman’s (as stated in Wikipedia).
Question 1: Do the technological limits of any given now sense still apply, or not. Meaning, does Radar sense (still I find “hearing” electromagnetic waves ridicules, seeing them with the skin by sacrificing the sense of touch makes more sense) still need the Glass Walker to emit an radio pulse to measure it’s reflection, or does it just happen that he has a radar-like sense, that isn’t actually radar and not hampered by technological requirements ?
If it does work like a (primary) Radar, does the gift create the means to emit said pulse (which strictly speaking isn’t a sense and therefore would be outside the scope of the gift) or does the Glass Walker have to create that pulse by other means ?
Question 2: Daredevil or Superman ?
Remember, the later can hear anything that happens on earth from low orbit, apparently the thin air pressure still carries sound to his ears.
With stuff like Millimetre Wave scanners, X-Ray Backscatters, Over-the-horizon radar, Directional microphones and digital zoom on high resolution cameras paired with only surface knowledge on the actual technology and it’s limit, the Glass Walker can just detect anything and only Gnosis is the limit. That is to much like Auspex 7 (or whatever that “I can see any place” power is) and way to much for Fostern level.
That said, if one uses “Blur of the milky eye”, he gets difficulty reduces to use Stealth. He hides behind a box with 5+ successes. Does “Cyber Senses” just bypass the Stealth roll or is Perception + Alertness still required from a Glass Walker observer ?
If the Glass Walker chooses to perceive any electromagnetic frequency that penetrates the box, does he ST need to check if such a frequency wouldn’t just go through the body of the hiding fella, too, making him quasi-invisible to the Glass Walker?
In the end, the gift is either over-the-top or worthless, depending on the STs decision (and believes) regarding a certain sensor technology.
So, to have the gift work well in game, and have it balanced, one should add mechanics, to bypass this problem and make the gift usable abstractly. Maybe like this:
“Whenever the Glass Walker is on the lookout for something specific have the player roll Intelligence + Technology (difficulty 6). For every uneven success he comes up with one “technology sense” that would help under the given circumstances. If he spends the gnosis to emulate said sense difficulties for subsequent Perception + Alertness rolls are lowered by one and gain 2 additional dice per sense/gnosis spent. Otherwise calculate difficulties for this roll normally.”
With this, the gift is more balanced and there isn’t a need for a “technology”-major to get frustrated at his “english”-major ST who just doesn’t get what a Non-Linear-Junction-Detector could to, or that a Magnet-Anomaly-Detector doesn’t at all work like Shadowrun 4 suggests.
Well a blur of the milky eye is easily bypassed by either heightened senses or cyber senses even without any special shenanigans.
Heightened allows you to either hear or smell your target and with cyber all you really need is IR-vision to see the heat signatures to know there’s something behind the box presented in your scenario.
I think your explanation is good for wanting it more clear, though I’d probably settle for something like adding one dice for each success to detect and/or gain information about your target(s) via this “new sense” while the gift is activated instead of being more or less automatic.
I’m not sure if it needs any other hampers such as glowing eyes etc. visual cues or backlash if using night vision-type sight and looking at too bright object and so on… ;beyond what’s already been proposed.
I disagree on “Blur of the milky eye” being easily bypassed. In the game mechanics it reduces the difficulty of stealth rolls. Therefore successes become increasingly more realistic. If the spotter is using a contested roll, the advantage of “Blur” isn’t easily bypassed, even with adjustments from perception boosting gifts. Difficulty adjustments in general lead to unexpected probabilities regarding the successes scored.
And by the way, “Stealth” rolls are for hiding from all senses, so bypassing “blur” by smelling isn’t that easy. The successes the “blur”-user scored stand and usually there is no need to re-roll his stealth, just you can not include the bonus once there is a smell-using person on the scene. And, alertness too, is meant for all senses…
As for the infra-red vision. I disagree on the signature being visible through the box. I used to be responsible for handling the IR-camera at my old workplace and certainly if objects were in the line of sight, it depended on the object whether or not IR-radiation passed to the lens or not.
Besides that, there are effects like that one guard could be lying on her bed before being alerted to the Glass Walker’s entering, and then hide. Once the Glass Walker enters the room, there is still a human shaped heat signature in the bed, while the guard really is kneeing right before the radiator, masked by its heat signature.
And that’s what I mean. If you say “It is heat vision” that one can start argue.
If it states “the Int+Tech roll lets the player choose appropriate senses to gain this bonuses” then there is no room for argument. For success on the gift then includes all the appropriate filters and bandwidth adjustments to actually use IR-vision to enhance Perception, not hinder it.
I see your point though I still think that’s a bit wordy to be used as is if Ethan & co. opt to use our suggestions here.
Good points.