What goes well with Ron Spencer fullpages? If you said “Steve Prescott tribal spread art,” then you are a person of taste well after my own heart. Steve Prescott’s been knocking them out of the park for Werewolf for ages, from a maggot-spewing comic in the front of Freak Legion to those masterful Revised fullpages that became the Revised-era Tribebook covers. He has a great knack for clothing design, making people that really express character, and it’s almost unfair that this is married to a powerful understanding of animal anatomy. There’s a reason we kept tapping him to work on the Changing Breed books: he can draw a frenzied rat-man, or a monstrous shark, or a dino-beast with equally great facility. I was delighted when they brought him over to the nWoD for the Changeling: The Lost kith art, and when Rich said he’d agreed to do the tribal pictures for Chapter Two, I was very happy indeed. They’ll be more traditional free-standing figures than those fullpages, so not that redundant, I wager. And I expect they’ll look great.
So, here are the notes we sent to him, then my notes (written specially for you guys) on why we chose the forms and figures we did. You’ll note these are fairly sparse art notes; some artists thrive on lots of detail in the art direction, but others need just a little.
Black Furies: Mari Cabrah, Crinos. Plenty of existing reference for her. Her pose and expression should summarize defiance. Totem is Pegasus; perhaps depict in the form of a rearing shadow behind her, wings outstretched, faintly abstract in its form.
Notes: It had to be Mari, really. Rich and I went back and forth on what form to depict her in, but ultimately settled on Crinos to open things up.
Bone Gnawers: Glabro form. Female, racially mixed (some Hispanic, Indian, what-have-you) lean and scraggly, but not diseased; kind of buff, dressed in mixed worn Goodwill gear but not giving off the vibe of an utter bum. Aware, predatory, kind of sardonic; she knows she’s at the bottom of the totem pole but she knows she can excel there. Totem is Rat; rats in the piece, weaving around the Bone Gnawer as if excited and following him, but not afraid of him.
Notes: Prescott does great urban characters. The Bone Gnawer we decided for Glabro because you’re able to get a lot of that style across, and Glabro adds to that touch of ferocity.
Children of Gaia: Lupus form. Probably slowly walking rather than in an action pose; serene. Totem is Unicorn; probably depicted on a talisman the werewolf wears around the neck.
Notes: I generally associate Lupus form with a more natural spirituality, and Hispo with the more savage hunts-on-all-fours imagery. The Children seemed like a decent use of this form.
Fianna: Crinos form; big and red-furred, with a longish coat as this goes – not Irish Wolfhound long, but still longer than the average Crinos coat. We can tell this is a Fianna because of the Celtic accoutrements: it’d be neat to make them Welsh rather than Irish or Scottish if you can find the reference, or Gallic perhaps. Totem is Stag; can be incorporated into the jewelry or the shadow.
Notes: Rich and I spent so much time bickering over whether to have a female or a male Fianna that we ultimately decided just to put the Fianna in Crinos and call it a day.
Get of Fenris: Crinos form; big, shaggy, terrifying-looking. Pacing slowly forward; wears a Viking-style torc. Massive Jarlhammer in one hand. Totem is Fenris Wolf; maybe the Garou’s shadow is even larger and more savage.
Notes: Rich sent me several notes along the lines of “Why would you do something other than Crinos? Big death metal Viking werewolf!” So, here you go. Though we went for the Jarlhammer rather than the Molly Hatchet battleaxe.
Glass Walkers: Human form. Male, better dressed than the Bone Gnawer, stylish modern clothing, maybe has some bits of fetish electronics on him. Should definitely look 21st-century. Possibly moving at a slow jog or run instead of standing still. Probably Caucasian, maybe with a touch of Mediterranean or Middle East. Totem is Cockroach; possibly as a symbol on his tablet. Cool and disdainful.
Notes: Male to counteract the female Bone Gnawer; rather like the idea of having the two tribes yin and yang in that fashion. Again, I trust Prescott to do urban right interesting.
Red Talons: Hispo form (massive, frightening “dire wolf”). Planted on all fours, snarling: like a mother guarding her cubs. Totem is Gryphon; perhaps its form is visible in a bloodstain spattered under the Red Talon.
Notes: Remember what I said about Lupus vs. Hispo? Hispo is the Red Talon form.
Shadow Lords: Margrave Konietzko, Crinos form. He’s thick, almost like a more pitbullish build for a wolf, and should have the distinctive armguards he has in human form; his sword should also be present. Black coat. Totem is Grandfather Thunder; a large Stormcrow could work for its representation if there’s no easy way to get across the idea of a thunderstorm…
Notes: Originally I was going to have the Margrave in Homid, but Rich always had a fondness for the pitbull-like build of the Shadow Lords and wanted to go with a Crinos form. Couldn’t argue.
Silent Striders: Another Crinos form, with the black jackal-like appearance; celebrate the fact that the Striders look like werewolf Anubis. Egyptian jewelry is almost expected, but let’s mix it up with some trappings from a neighboring region; maybe something Persian, Moroccan, or Bedouin. Totem is Owl; can easily be shown as an owl flying through the piece.
Notes: I’m not going to apologize for the amount of Crinos in these; the Silent Striders are fantastic in their Crinos forms, and it will often be my first choice for them to be depicted as such.
Silver Fangs: Lord Albrecht, big white Crinos form. Carrying his Grand Klaive. Should have the mix of nobility and Rage. Totem is Falcon; a physical falcon in the piece works.
Notes: Like the Margrave, I considered Homid form for Albrecht, but Rich favored the big pure white Crinos form. It is rather noble, I suppose.
Stargazers: Lupus form, reclining on a statue and looking upward as if at the sky. Sphinx-like, a beast with both human wisdom and spirit understanding. Totem is Chimera (though it’s often used to refer to the Pi Xiu); it would work well as the statue the Stargazer is lying on.
Notes: Not unlike the Children of Gaia, I think there’s a certain level of implicit spirituality to Lupus form. Call me a romantic.
Uktena: Human form. The fullpage shows someone Southwestern, like Hopi or Navajo; let’s go with a racially-mixed woman (some African, some Native American, some Hispanic maybe) with more Cherokee-style trappings mixed with her modern garb. Modern shaman, has several fetishes and oddments, but she needs to be wearing clothing that she can move in rather than a complicated ritual dress. Totem is Uktena; she has a staff or other weapon that’s carved to resemble an antlered serpent.
Notes: The Uktena and Wendigo are sort of like the yin and yang, two related tribes that are very different, much like the Bone Gnawers and Glass Walkers. It’s a little cliched, perhaps, to have the Uktena play the yin of the equation, but so too are Crinos Get and Hispo Red Talons — call it archetypal, rather.
Wendigo: Glabro form. Dangerous-looking Pacific Northwest Native American guy, like if the Scalped comic took place up in Alaska. Probably wearing modern pants and a tank top, but he has some beaded or feathered armbands and other trappings stressing his heritage. Totem is Wendigo: a savage thing depicted in his trappings, or in his shadow.
The most complicated thing about this is going to be getting across the totem, I think. Wendigo is a tricky one to depict.
Hurray for the taffs getting represented! Welsh Fianna = <3 So so looking forward to seeing these pieces of art.
I’m beating this point to death, but I’d love to see a pharaoh-beard on a female ‘Strider. I think Prescott is just the guy to depict a lean female Crinos as a slender war machine, and not a chesty tart.
I really don’t like the fact that the same NPCs are constantly used to depict certain tribes. It pigeonholes the image. It’s thinking in stereotypes, which is one of the biggest problems I had with previous editions of werewolf. There is more to, say Silver Fangs, than one NPC that doesn’t even play to their idealized depiction.
I do agree on this, there is more to each tribe than their typical stereotypes. That’s what makes them so interesting.
Maybe Silver Fang could be a lord, or a scholar of the tribe. Dressed in robes in crinos, with a clawed hand holding a scroll (silver record?).
Using classic characters like Albrecht and Mari is a good move. Illustrations of them will really excite returning Werewolf players. 😀
But they all ready have their art, the full page spreads feature them quite heavily.
And what about new players? What about old players who are fed up with those characters?
Look at it this way, those characters go against the grain of their tribes. Albrecht is a royal bum, a king of the poor, compare him to kings of other houses and he looks like a poor cousin of average breeding (he’s Pure Breed 4). But he’s everywhere, need a depiction of a Silver Fang? Use Albrecht.
Then we have Konietzko, a guy who tries to be a stereotyped Shadow Lord par excellence. Every time he pops up we see a mighty potentate and frankly, very few Shadow Lords are so powerful. You won’t see him double-dealing a vampire in a dirty alley.
About Mari…
Two words, fighting feminist, a whole tribe cornered into an offensive box and label.
Warning! I’m going to tell you about my characters.
I currently play a Silver Fang and he’s as different as he could be from Albrecht. He’s a nice young Moroccan man from the royal family, he’s soft spoken, pious and cultured. In his pack he’s the voice of reason, while also being the financial backbone.
He’s also the Alpha and an ahroun.
I once played a Shadow Lord theurge, a kid raised by a single mom in a Pittsburgh neighborhood. He wasn’t a grand schemer or a wealthy lord, he was a poor kid saddled with duty and a pretty tall legacy. He played to his strengths, so that his errors looked like premeditated moves. He wasn’t offensive or proud, others liked him, and with time he got better at what he did.
Both characters are as different from Konietzko and Albrecht as they could be, and yet they are both of the same tribes. Pushing forward NPCs won’t bring new players to the game, especially since to learn about them you need to bother yourself with other books.
This is part of the reason we decided for Crinos for all three. While old-school people will potentially recognize them from their trappings, most everyone who’s new will see “this is what they look like in Crinos.” The only outlier is potentially Mari, since she has that odd distinctive coat, but on the other hand, that gives her some visual difference from the pure black Shadow Lord.
I was actually pretty okay with doing every tribe in Crinos for that reason: it’s an illustration of what Pure Breed looks like for the tribe.
Mari, Albrecht, Yuri, yawn.
I’d like to have some representation of Julisha of the Thousand Masks for the Furies or something…
Also… What, no metis among the tribal splats?
*chuckle* You summed my response up in about 20,000 fewer words. 😉
Leaving out the “known character” thing, any of them could be metis. Even, technically, the Red Talon.
Which I know seems kind of dismissive, but really the goal for illustrating the metis is slated for the breeds section, not the tribes section.
Can I ask why? The players are going to look at the splat art for examples for their characters. A metis is as valid of a character as a homid or a lupus. Yes, they are weird, abominations to Gaia and all that.
But they do have a part in their respective tribes, and showing metis splats would help players see for example what Children of Gaia do for metis.
Because choosing to depict a metis would be the only place in which we are choosing to depict specific breeds. We talk about form only in these notes; maybe the Bone Gnawer’s a lupus, maybe the Stargazer’s homid. The only exceptions are where we use sig characters for the models, but if people say “I want to play a lupus Silver Fang that looks like that, all big and white in Crinos,” awesome.
We were looking to strike a general balance between forms depicted, not among breeds. Showing metis in the art is something I want to do, but balancing breeds was not an objective in the tribal spread part; balancing the forms we show them in was more important. I acknowledge that it’s easy to read “oh, this character is in Homid form, therefore he must be a homid because a lupus would be in Lupus form”, but that’s not the intent.
One nitpick here, but Irish wolfhounds actually have shorter coats than most wolves have.
( Irish wolf hound: http://bestnew-pet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/0613.jpg
Wolf: http://www.hlasek.com/foto/canis_lupus_e8848.jpg )
Other than that, I’d give the Glass Walker a different air. They are more than tribe of technology, they are the tribe of man. Maybe go back to the Wise Guy roots and combined use of crosses, guns and yet faith to Gaia. Maybe a mobster holding his rosary while he is clearly in a gunfight, while a cockroach climbs on his back.
As for Wendigo, the full page art has their savage side all ready, so maybe the spread could focus on their purity. Dressed in traditional garb with a fetish spear still near them, they could be dancing or performing a rite.
Personally, I wouldn’t use a Wise Guy look-alike for Glass Walkers because, while he would fit in a “Werewolf Noir” historical sourcebook, W20 definitely isn’t one, and therefore I think the most sensible choice would be to use the guy from the notes. He’s just the kind of person we could meet “here and now,” one that wouldn’t particularly stand out in a crowd (or, depending on one’s perspective, a herd 🙂 ), which I think is one of the main characteristics of a tribe of urban werewolves, dictated by the need to preserve the Veil in a place where lifting it is dangerously easy.
I do kinda wish that the Totems had been in the “Tribal Pin-Ups”, but at least they get their presence with their Tribes in the Tribal Spreads. It can kinda push the fact that player characters are still tied to their Tribal totems even if they don’t mechanically have a connection to them–there’s more to a character than what you’ve put points into.
Re-use of the well-known canon characters was one of my concerns as well.
The Ron Spencer artworks are “The Propoganda Posters of the Tribes.” But the Tribal spread artwork should be more about the archetypal character, not “the best known” characters. Mari, Margrave and Albrecht already are shown off in the Spencer work. I’d really like to see “unknown” characters that could represent anyone’s PC as the spreads.
Something else of note: I’m not really seeing any attempts to mix in Auspice rolls, or Metis into the character spreads here either. Is there a way we can make them look a little like “a bunch of Ahroun”?
Again, the Spencer pieces seem more like the “Poster Children” and the Character section should be more relatable to the characters people will be playing/making.
I also felt it was worth comparing the Spencer pieces to the Prescott pieces for reference to see where things were overlapping.
Black Fury:
– Ron Spencer: Mari in Homid gutting a BSD.
– Prescott: Mari in Crinos being defiant.
(Suggestion: Crinos is fine (since we don’t show their black fur in the Spencer piece it’ll be good to show their namesake.) But what about a Metis female? She can still be in a defiant pose, with a klaive, or other item in her hand?)
Bone Gnawers:
– Ron Spencer: Mix of forms in their dump/bridge turf. Contains Rats?
– Prescott: Glabro Female of mixed race looking predatory with rats.
(Suggestion: I don’t really have any. This sounds good. Again, without a backgound to really put the character against, the “life” in the character will be in the details, I’m sure.)
Children of Gaia:
– Ron Spencer: Homid or Lupus crouched over a luminous seedling amid carnage of dead Wyrm agents.
– Prescott: Lupus walking and seeming serene.
(Suggestion: Find out what Spencer is doing, and do the oposite form from that, or vise versa. My concern with a “serene Lupus” is going to be, well, it could look rather un-unique unless some interesting detail is given to the shot, or adornments, or pose to differenciate it from just some wolf walking around. Perhaps this too could be a Metis? Maybe it has wounds and scars from its prior life before it was given to the Children of Gaia? Perhaps even the mark from another Tribe, it originally was from, or a mark of dishonor to show that Metis of the CoG are less likely to be their own? What if the Lupus was standing near the fountain in their Umbral homeland with fading Unicorns in the waters?)
Fianna:
– Ron Spencer: Three Crinos howling at the moon from a hilltop.
– Prescott: Crinos. Red medium-long furred Welsh.
(Suggestion: If the Spencer piece is Appelacian, then having the Welsh makes good sense too. But let’s remember too that these are far more archtypical characters too, so nothing too fancy/different. But what about his/her attire makes them an individual, or shows their role? Or is this where Steve excells and puts his own spin on things without needing specific information?
Also, I think non-gendered Crinos seem cheap. I’ve never been a fan of the idea that a Crinos’ gender is physically indistinguishable. It seems like a cop-out to avoid adult-ratings and I’ve heard arguments for both sides, but it’s a stylistic change that WW went with, so so be it. 🙂 )
Get of Fenris:
– Ron Spencer: A Viking-like crinos ripping a BSD apart with several others in various forms battling said BSDs too.
– Prescott: A Viking-like Crinos pacing forward with weapons in hand.
(Suggestion: None. Not really, at least. I mean, I can’t argue with “Big death metal viking Werewolf”. So, yeah, bring it on.)
Glasswalkers:
– Ron Spencer: Female Glabro in stylish concert-wear fighting some Hunters in a subway station using a gift to shoot stained glass at the enemies. Contains Cockroaches?
– Prescott: Homid Male, jogging with tablet, wearing modern stylish clothes.
(Suggestion: This seems REALLY uninteresting by its bland description. It looks like you want to go for a Random Interrupt, or Corporate Wolf type here, but are somewhere in the generic in-between. How can this look more like a “Modern Werewolf” as opposed to just being a “stylish Urban werewolf”? If we can see the tablet, I think him using a stylus to draw glyphs would be cool. Make him a Galliard who’s recording tales using technology (instead of carving in wood, he’s drawing on the tablet and maybe the glyphs are being spiritually held in the air too? Or perhaps he’s communicating with the spirits through the tablet instead?) Give him ear-buds for music and a “Team Jacob” shirt, or something cliche to show he’s still connected to human culture. But maybe he’s wearing sunglasses that hide a missing eye and facial scar, and some other recognizable fetish (Monkey Puzzle?) around his neck? He’s Garou who’s connected to the Human world, but he’s still a warrior. Or maybe he’s an albino, bald Metis in Homid/glabro?)
Red Talons:
– Ron Spencer: Several Lupus and Hispo hunting in the woods.
– Prescott: Snarling, protective Hispo.
(Suggestion: Scars or something to mark that this wolf is a bit more than just some ordinary wolf. Perhaps it is ontop of a pile of human bones?)
Shadow Lords:
– Ron Spencer: Margrave in Homid, sword-Kliave in hand and directing his men from a balcony. Contains Thunder and Lightning.
– Prescott: Margrave in Crinos with sword-Klaive
(Suggestion: Ditch Margrave for a more likely Shadow Lord character type. The wannabe Shadow-Lord with aspirations of being a master manipulator. Perhaps push the Eastern-European/Russian angle with his attire a bit more, with emblems of wolves on his jacket, or even an assassin with an AK-47? I just think that the image should represent the characters someone is going to make, not the head of that Tribe they can unlikely ever become because that character already exists.)
Silent Striders:
– Ron Spencer: Anubis-looking Crinos with Egyptian jewelry fighting a vampire in the moonlight-lit desert. Contains Owl.
– Prescott: Anubis-looking Crinos with Middle-Eastern/African jewelry and Owl included too.
(Suggestion: These guys are messengers, wanderers of the World. Maybe he has a backpack beside him that has patches from all over the world? If the Striders are going to be haunted by ghosts in W20, perhaps show some sort of wear-and-tear on the individual, or perhaps manifest the ghost in some way too?)
Silver Fangs:
– Ron Spencer: Lord Albrecht in Glabro dueling another Silver Fang.
– Prescott: Lord Albrecht in Crinos with his Grand Klaive, looking noble, but rage-like too.
(Suggestion: Again, Lord Albrecht doesn’t really physically or otherwise really best represent the Tribe. How about a female Silver Fang looking noble and powerful? Nonetheless, a character of great upbringing to be a leader by birth. Noble in posture, even when soaked in their own blood, and the blood of their enemies. However, if there’s some way to show some sort of their mental “illness”, I’d love to see it brought forth too.)
Stargazers:
– Ron Spencer: Glabro controlling Rage through katas in a temple.
– Prescott: Lupus on a statue looking upwards at the sky on a stone statue of their totom.
(Suggestion: No real suggestion here, other than any little details that again may show that they have a bit more thought to their own uniqueness than just a wolf on a statue.)
Uktena:
– Ron Spencer: Female? South-Western Indian Homid/Glabro binding a bane into a wall painting.
– Prescott: Homid racially-mixed woman with fetishes and other adornments in attire for combat rather than rituals.
(Suggestion: None, really. Maybe look into something more Louisiana/Voodoo-ish? That could look cool.)
Wendigo:
– Ron Spencer: Wendigo in Crions in Winter landscape, blood on snow and severed head of enemy and carcass behind him.
– Prescott: Glabro male. Modern pants and top, but tribal arm bands and feathers, etc.
(Suggestion: In a World of Darkness setting, it’s not easy to walk around in buck-skins. *chuckle* I think he should look like he’s on the verge of something hostile. Perhaps he doesn’t like the reader’s face?)
What about a similar page in the antagonist’s section for BSDs? I suppose there’s few enough Skindancers that they don’t really need their own page, unless their numbers are higher than I’m aware of in the WoD.
I suppose we don’t necessarily need the same amount of detail, but it’d be cool (if they’re put into the book) to have similar pages for the Bunyip, Croatan (both alive during Dark Ages?) and White Howlers.
But what about Ronin? Could they be given their own similar treatment as a playable “Tribe” in character creation? I’d like to see the poor “Tribeless” folks get their own pages.
“I just think that the image should represent the characters someone is going to make, not the head of that Tribe they can unlikely ever become because that character already exists.”
THIS.
As for your ideas, I’d really like if bot CoG and Black Furies had a metis in the artwork. Lupus and Homid have had their space in the full pages, let the Metis now have a chance. And I think the Children of Gaia should be a metis who looks scarred, yet not afraid or submissive at all. This metis has found a home amongs the tribe, they have no need to grovel.
I’m OK with altering one to have be identifiable as Metis, but has the CoG Metis been done to death?
It may have, but seeing a metis treated well shows their ideals the best. Unity among garou, no matter what breed.
Other tribes don’t really have that sense of unity.
You’ll have to look at V20 to see if any of your ideas here might be possible. Hmmmm….
Yeah- some really nice ideas here- thanks!
No problem. I realize I’m just one voice with my own perspectives, which may not always be accurate, or have the same picture you guys are trying to represent. So anything I add to the project that can be positive is something I’m happy to give.
“Also, I think non-gendered Crinos seem cheap. I’ve never been a fan of the idea that a Crinos’ gender is physically indistinguishable. It seems like a cop-out to avoid adult-ratings and I’ve heard arguments for both sides, but it’s a stylistic change that WW went with, so so be it. 🙂 )”
Speaking purely for myself, ever since 1st ed. I liked Josh Timbrook’s Mari-in-Crinos in the flipbook of doom — the one that is clearly female only when she reverts to Homid — to the more boobtastic Crinos forms we saw early on. It simply says “werewolf” (and specifically “Garou” to me) where the more sexualized Crinos forms feel more like generic wolf anthroforms. Not saying I’m right, just why I feel the way I do.
“I was actually pretty okay with doing every tribe in Crinos for that reason: it’s an illustration of what Pure Breed looks like for the tribe.”
So it IS physically visible on the garou who have that background?
Check out the “Backgrounds” section in each of the Revised Tribe books. They give the concepts behind each of the Backgrounds for each Tribe, including what their Pure Breed looks like (even suggestions for what Glasswalkers may have looked like, even if they don’t really count anymore.) Wendigo’s are, well… unique. *chuckle*
I know, however there has been a lond debate wether that’s all purebreed is and does it actually have physical features. But if so, fine by me ^^
Unless they make the wendigo look the the ‘unique’ pb, I really dislike THAT purebreed.
Pure Breed doesn’t have to manifest as physical features, but the “what the classic member of the tribe looks like” section was indeed meant to offer suggestions.
Yes, this is my weasely way of saying “I am not comfortable in telling players what their characters look like.”
I actually have no problems with that, considering pure breed looks tend to be similar to what dog breeds have. Each Great Dane looks unique, even if they share a breed.
So it isn’t you telling them what their characters look like, just what their breed tends to look like.
execpt Wendigo PB, white haired blue eyed ice clawed aurora thing..just..no.
Interesting to note that they recently discovered that the Egyptian jackal is actually the Egyptian wolf. I wonder if this will be reflected in the Striders.
Do you have a link to a story about this? I’m intrigued.
Here is the link to the story. The fact was widely publicised last year – as it was rather a major find, coupled with the fact that Grey Wolf, as a species, colonised North Africa before spreading to Northern Hemisphere. The study indicated that the Egyptian wolf (formerly mistaken for jackal) represents an ancient strain of wolf closely related to Himalayan and Indian wolves. That would make Silent Striders, (along with Stargazers) two oldest Tribes in W20 😉
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1351029/Egyptian-golden-jackal-actually-grey-wolf-scientists-discover-DNA-test.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12298337
That’s fantastic, thank you
I’m actually pretty jazzed about the crinos majority. One suggestion about the depiction of Wendigo: Wendigo is a heart-eater, would it make sense for our Wendigo splat guy to be offering up fomori/bsd hearts to something that’s like a formless spirit?
Could be cool, yeah. I’ll run it past Ethan.
I would not object at all.
Also, for the Uktena it might be cool to look into Moundbuilder motifs rather than Cherokee ones, although if I remember right the Moundbuilders were evil in Werewolf canon right?
The Cherokee thing is largely me throwing a bone out to the whole “Uktena is a Cherokee word” thing. I know, it’s probably that Appalachian bias talking, but y’know.
Dipping into the Wendigo I’d like to see him look even more brutal, perhaps naked in the snow like a lupus that has just shifted to homid for some reason. I’ve always seen the wendigo (the myth rather than specifically the WtA totem) as being about the brutality of people. Sure he’s made of cold and whatever but also he’s canibalistic and brutal, like all humans have the capacity to be. With this in mind how would you feel having the totem represented by a frost cornered shadow/reflection cast behind the Garou or hovering around him like an aura. I think the Wendigo is a totem with resonances in the dark qualities of the tribe, as much as much as their landscape. Not that I want to get all Wraith the Oblivion on you.
I’m generally liking these ideas. They remind me of that bit in the first edition that had al the tribes listed with pictures of tribe members interacting with each other in roughly alphabetical order.
I also think that Abrecht and Mari are fine as signatures in Crinos. In that form they are fairly generic examples of their tribe, and whilst their not the most exciting examples of a tribe they really don’t need to be. They need to be examples of each tribes “factory settings” that you can then customise to your own taste.
Gah. And I’ve just seen the shadow thing was at the end of your description. What a moron. So let me rephrase: shadow is a good idea, I think of the Wendigo as a neanderthal, grendel like thing, the brutal primeval side of man.
Oh, and if the Fianna’s going to be Welsh and using Welsh motifs then he needs to be holding/ have about his person a love spoon. Nice tie in with the passion of the Fianna.
And a leek? 😛
And daffodils…And wearing one of those traditional Welsh lady hats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Welsh_costume
I’d love a Welsh spoon made of carved werewolf glyphs. The Fianna one would fit really well on one.
Overall, this looks great.
I agree with others that the signature characters already have a place in Ron Spencer’s full-page images, so more generic characters should be illustrated here.
Other than that, my main suggestion is that “red-furred wolf” for Fianna just doesn’t make any sense to me. There aren’t any real wolves like that. Even white wolves and black wolves stick out less in comparison to real wolves.
Well, it’s also the World of Darkness, so maybe the red hair is actually a trait from werewolves given to Humans? 😉
I’ve also been told by some dog expert-like people that black fur in wolves is a trait that was given to them by dogs (who had a mutated gene that was bred into black dogs) who bred it back into wolves in real life, so technically black wolves aren’t “natural” either… at least they didn’t have it until people sorta gave it to them. 😉 But, in WoD, there’s two naturally black wolf Tribes. 😀
Well, that is simply not true. The most dominant colour is grey flecked with black (hence the species name Grey Wolf) but other colour variations are not uncommon. Across the geographical range of Grey Wolf you can easily find individuals (or entire populations) that are red, brown, black or almost pure white. This is purely dictated by wide genetic variety of the species and geographic location (or isolation) of subspecies (eg. Arctic Wolf).
I think point of Flanna being red haired is just an attempt to highlight their Celtic heritage. The Celts seem to have been a rather striking people, tall, fair skinned and with fair or reddish hair. Sure it might be a bit of a generalisation – but it certainly plays nicely with widely accepted image of Celts in our imagination.
And that’s exactly right, Marc. The point of the fur color isn’t to trace back the actual connection to real wolves (although it’s great that folks have that knowledge and can), but to give an identifying look to one of the Tribes so that they stand out among the other Tribes. It’s why I like the number of Crinos depictions in this list- we get to see how the form can look identifiable by Tribe on these spreads. Not stereotypical, but archetypical.
I’ve always like the way that crinos forms often have the remnants of their homid for hair cuts. I think of fur colours as working like that.
I always liked having that as an option myself.
Agreed. It seems weird when someone’s had a particular haircut, or long hair, and that hair just sort of disappears and reappears without a trace at times.
Fur color actually correlates to certain basic behavioural traits in canids. It’s why when they bred foxes to be friendly, they also (entirely unrelatedly) started displaying coat colors normally only seen in domestic dogs.
Re: Red Talons –
But dire wolves weren’t nearly big enough to resemble a Hispo Garou. They were just close cousins with short legs and more prominent, hyena-like jaws, whereas Red Talons are the more familiar wolves to the modern world – the ones that are suited for long running and harrying.
That why the note is in quotation marks, we’re not telling Steve to draw an accurate Dire Wolf, but the idea of a huge, scary wolf.
Speaking of racial stereotypes in WW.
I don’t mind general cultural stereotypes because it really is near impossible to cram one tribe’s culture with ALL it’s stereotypes found in its human cultural range into one picture.
So my suggestion is to stick to three maybe four most easily recognizable features that are dominant in the werewolf tribes (human)cultural range.
Tl;Dr -Keep the art simple and clean.
What I would say about these images is that they should have the archetype summed up in a single phrase. The Ron Spencer art looks like they have time for two level images, but these one’s don’t. It looks like, with the Ron Spencer Silver Fangs for example, you have space to say “aristocrat werewolves who have a taint of madness.” but in these images it sounds like its better to just run with “aristocratic werewolf” and leave it at that. I think we should remember that these images will want to be the most stereotypical and simplistic take on the tribes in the entire book. The very first introduction to each of them.
I’m thinking about the Glass Walker. Compared to the others, he just doesn’t stand out. How about using the Dies Ultimea (the GW mercenary unit) as the poster boy? Werewolf has always been about the final days, and the tribebook noted that they may be the force of the future for the tribe?
A character like that could easily display modern warfare gadgetry, body armor and high tech weapons coupled with fetishes and Garou symbols. This would reinforce the concept of warriors and show of that they are werewolves who don’t shirk from modern technology, heck they may even err on the side of claws and fangs towards grenades and guns. Best of all, the gear could show certain signs of it being modified so it can be used by Crinoses
I see what you’re saying, but the key quality of Glasswalkers is their urban-ness. I don’t know if paramilitary gear sums that up at a stroke.
Yeah but right now, GW’s are the rich urban guys, while the Gnawers are the poor urban guys. As stereotypes, those two don’t really end up that evocative. Both the tribes have much more depth then that, but if you’re going for a urban Gnawer as described above maybe a modern militant Walker would be a good way to represent their total embrace of technology even in the single act that defines Garou – War.
I agree, right now GWs have the airs of a calm peaceful tribe. Which they aren’t at all. They aren’t afraid to sink their claws into their foes, or afraid to shoot people. That should show in the art.
For me, Bone Gnawers are Wolves in a forest of the City. They scavange, they hunt, they protect, they basically act like any Garou would/should by living off of the land, except that their land is the city. The Glasswalkers, on the other hand, enjoy the trappings and toys of their most precious playthings: the Humans. The Humans give them such great gadgets and tools to use. They’ve lost a bit of their edge when it comes to having to work without their lovely toys and tools, but they’re just as deadly, if not moreso, when they have their tools in-hand. While the Bone Gnawers understand the Wyld of the City, the Glasswalkers know and utilize the Weaver of the city in their duty to Gaia, even if they get a bit wrapped up in the “creature comforts” in their down-time, or on the road. At least, that’s what I take as the “general Glasswalker” idea, from Wiseguys, to Corporate Wolves, to Random Interupts.
Now, Urban Primitives are one of those “3 steps backwards” camps that every tribe’s gotta have (Oh, I’m an X, but I think our Tribe is doing it all wrong, so we’re going back to our roots/going against the grain.) Urban Primitives are more likely to just smash and grab than a Wise Guy, Corporate Wolf, or Random Interrupt, who have their own methods that often may involve not getting their own paws dirty until they have to.
But I agree that the Ron Spencer piece does show a bit less militaristic ‘Walker using her gifts to defend herself from the Hunters. Having a Glasswalker holding his augmented firearms, night-vision gear, and other “gadgets” could be pretty cool too. 🙂 For me, the important part is the “Human-created tools”, even if they’re Garou-augmented to work better. 🙂
I think the distinction I would make is between the Glass Walkers looking like technophiles and the Glass Walkers looking militaristic. I think that he could look combat orientated but he shouldn’t look like he’s someone ready to fight in an open war. That’s more of a Get schtick.
I think a general idea of depicting player archetypes in Crinos form is a very good one. At the end – the Crinos form is the most iconic feature of being a Werewolf and varies the most from tribe to tribe. I would add that maybe we could explore a slightly bolder option and show two forms back to back (one being Homid/Glabro/Hispo/Lupus depending on a tribe, and other in Crinos).
For example :
Fianna:
Generic homid form , wearing t-shirt clearly visible Celtic tattoos covering the arm, hands in the jeans pockets, Irish flat cap hiding the eyes , and maybe with cigarette ( or blade of grass to avoid outrage of promoting smoking 😉
Crinos form with the spear, reddish/brown fur, braids and beads ornamenting the head, maybe some Celtic war paint etc.
Both Forms leaning on each other back to back.
Red Talons:
Hispo form of dark grey dire wolf, snarling and emerging from behind hulking Crinos form of the same colour – clearly in aggressive, defiant posture with claws wide spread, body covered in battle scars; alert if it is about to leap at the something in front of it. Both forms are front facing.
Wendigo:
Glabro form of typical Lumberjack, red check shirt torn from changing into Glabro form, dark fur appearing slightly on the part of exposed body. Long Jet black hair are untidy, hint of native American mixed origin in the facial features, snarling exposing inhuman fangs. One hand holding an axe another rests on a shoulder of a crouching Crinos Form.
Crinos form crouching beside the Lumberjack, its fur and muzzle matted with blood ; it rests one hand on the ground in front of it for balance another holding bloody remains of some unrecognisable prey. It clearly has been fighting and feeding. Some Native American ornaments and imbedded into its fur making it unmistakable Wendigo
Of course this is just an idea – but I think it might add some character to the drawings depicting tribes. It could also be a little bit of a compromise between groups of players that would like to see their favourite tribes depicted in different forms.
I liked the 2nd edition picture of the glasswalker (presumably) which had the head of a wolf with half of it being code in the sillouette and half being a picture of a wolf.
So far so good with the updates. Can’t wait for more.
Steve Prescott just posted that he’s received the outlines for his pieces, so I’m wondering if this post has been updated, or if we’ll get an “updated” version of what was sent to him like we got for the Ron Spencer pieces. I’d like to know what the final pieces are, or at least know how much was changed from our input.