One last tribal spread; they seem to be okay format-wise, but what the heck. The Uktena always struck me as one of the “least picked” tribes, but I think they’re beyond fascinating. It seems appropriate to show you them, especially as we have a revised Prescott sketch to go with it. He added some more modern touches, but kept the cross-cultural, predominantly American Southwest Nations feel — and man, I think he nailed it. Love those cowboy boots!
Uktena
In the days before the Europeans reached the Americas, the Uktena acted as the wise Older Brother of the three tribes of Pure Ones. Where Wendigo focused on war and the hunt, and the Croatan were more sociable, the Uktena gathered mystical lore to themselves. They settled across the Americas, favoring more southern lands where the rivers they cherish were plentiful.
When the arrival of the Europeans changed everything, and their Kin were much reduced in number, the Uktena chose to adapt. They began to interact with humans of many other cultures, favoring those who kept old animistic traditions or those who had suffered oppression much as the Pure Ones had. Many Uktena bear the blood of former slaves, or people driven from their lands, or immigrants who were shoved into filthy ghettos.
But although the Uktena have learned new hope from their embrace of outside cultures (excepting, of course, the Europeans’ themselves), a river of dark bitterness still runs through their hearts. They ally with the rest of the tribes, but keep secrets to themselves. They haven’t forgotten any of the insults and injuries they’ve suffered. And they don’t trust nearly as much as they let on. They still use the word “Wyrmcomer” to describe the Europeans, even if they don’t do it to their cousins’ faces. When there’s need to cooperate, they’ll do so – but if there’s an opportunity to discreetly settle a particularly painful vendetta, they may find it hard to resist.
Despite the old wounds between the Uktena and most of the other tribes, they are valuable members of the Garou Nation. They have spent millennia communing with spirits to learn obscure occult secrets, bartering quietly with lone members of other supernatural communities (such as the Corax, Nuwisha and Qualmi), and devising rites unknown even to the Wendigo. The Uktena have mastered more occult mysteries than any other tribe, giving them a notable edge where the mystical side of the war is concerned. However, not all of the secrets they’ve learned are safe.
The Uktena don’t shy away from dealing with things darker and more twisted than Gaian spirits. They have a long history of dealing with true horrors. In their explorations, ancient Uktena uncovered a number of powerful Banes lying dormant below the earth’s surface. They enacted mighty rites to keep these monstrous Wyrm-spirits bound, and for generations the Uktena have maintained the tradition of “Bane Tenders” to watch over these blasphemous sites. Over the ages, the tribe learned more of the Wyrm’s evil than any Gaian Garou should perhaps know.
Yet this knowledge is very useful. The Uktena are masters at discovering Wyrm taint, no matter how subtly hidden. They know the weaknesses of Banes that few other scholars can even name. The tribe’s Theurges are virtually unparalleled, and even their No Moons and Full Moons have a canny knack for understanding the hidden corners of the Umbra. Curiosity is praised as a virtue among the tribe – the cub with the most potential is one who’s hungry to learn. Lupus members are encouraged to ask as many questions as they want to, and as a result learn at an accelerated pace. Their metis are typically held to a harsh standard, yet sometimes even overtake their homid and lupus brethren in mastery of the occult. They have never known a world without mysticism.
These are dark times, and the Uktena’s knowledge of evil offers a constant window to temptation. Garou of every tribe can fall to the Wyrm, and when an Uktena gives in to the whispers from under the earth, he becomes one of the most cunning and dangerous of all the fallen. Other tribes who suspect the extent of the Uktena’s lore cannot help but dread the thought that they may weaken as a group. But while the Uktena have strength and purpose, they continue to strike at the Wyrm using methods and approaches few others could master. They know it very well, after all. They know its allure and strength – but also its tricks, its taboos, and its weaknesses.
Appearance: Uktena Pure Breed often manifests as reddish-black fur, and many have a distinct resemblance to red wolves. The tribe is a particular mishmash of Native American and various dispossessed ethnicities, and many members have a penchant for occult trinkets from a wide range of traditions.
Kinfolk & Territory: The Uktena bred with native peoples throughout the Americas, and have brought many other oppressed ethnic groups under their wing. They favor secluded territories, often places that have a bad reputation in local society and folklore. Many of these places have earned that reputation, with ancient horrors bound beneath the land and kept there only by the Uktena’s vigilance.
Tribal Totem: The Uktena is a Native American water spirit resembling a horned serpent with a few pumalike features. It has many water and snake-spirits in its brood, including Feathered Serpents, Sea Serpents and serpentine dragons of Asia.
Character Creation: Uktena value high Mental Attributes, the better to perceive and master their many spiritual advantages. Occult is quite common among the tribe, and Uktena tend to learn many rites and pick up fetishes when they can.
Initial Willpower: 3
Beginning Gifts: Sense Magic, Sense Wyrm, Shroud, Spirit of the Lizard, Spirit Speech
Quote: “We were not given eyes, ears and a mind so we could stay blind, deaf and ignorant. You don’t like what you see – but that is exactly why we must look on it.”
Stereotypes
Black Furies: They keep all manner of interesting old traditions that would no doubt be quite useful, if we could simply encourage them to share.
Bone Gnawers: Rat’s children know more than they pretend to. Not that much more, but enough.
Children of Gaia: They’ve achieved some real power in healing and purification. They could probably achieve much more if they weren’t so… tentative about other arts.
Fianna: We’ll look after our own lore, thank you. That way we know it’s in trusted hands.
Get of Fenris: Fools who think if they are strong enough, they won’t have to bother to learn anything.
Glass Walkers: A little too specialized to be healthy, but there’s no denying they know tricks we can only guess at.
Red Talons: They can’t indulge their bloodlust all the time. When you catch them in their quiet moments, you can learn some interesting things.
Shadow Lords: Nothing quite gets their attention and respect like reminding them you may know more than they do.
Silent Striders: They must have seen so much in their wandering. I wish they’d share more of their experiences.
Silver Fangs: Subtly remind them of the wrongs we’ve endured, and encourage them to be good kings. They may not be competent enough to manage it, but at least they won’t be malicious.
Stargazers: I respect your insight, cousin, but do you really think that if you don’t pay any attention to the world, it won’t pay any attention to you?
Wendigo: So angry, Younger Brother. If you were anyone else I would fear for you – but you remember the proper ways for now.
i like it a lot. i would explicitly maybe link the uktena to the traditions of brujos/as, conjure men, and the witches of the appalachians and smoky mountains. or just use the word witch explicitly to refer to them.
also i love that steve prescott piece
Good call. It may confuse a few V:tMheads to talk about brujeria for the Uktena, but whatever, man, etymology’s good for you.
Very glad to hear that. Appalachian hoodoo, rootwork and conjuring doctoring (which has gotten some great portrayals in nWoD lately btw) is interesting because not only does it originate in the South, lands traditionally associated with the Uktena and their kin, but it also rather freely blends Native American, African and Scots-Irish magic and folklore. Pretty appropriate for a Tribe obsessed with ‘dark knowledge’ that draws on pretty much any and all cultures.
The same more or less applies to curanderismo and brujeria in the American Southwest (another area associated with the Uktena), as well as Afro-Caribbean religions like Santeria, Voudon and Candomble, and syncretic Native American religions like the Native American Church and Santo Daime. Actually come to think of it, the sinister reputation of ‘voodoo,’ as popularized by Hollywood’ fits the Uktena to a t. Between that and Santa Muerte…
Definitely like this. The forbidden-knowledge aspect of the Uktena is what I like most about the tribe (Maybe my 40k fanboy is showing but they remind me a lot of the Dark Angels in that regard).
I have a question, though: In Revised I’ve seen mention of a few European Uktena drawn from the aboriginal Samí tribes of Norway and Finland. Is this going to continue to be canon in W20, or will the Uktena be kept as 100% Native American, no canonical exceptions?
I doubt we’ll call it out as true or untrue either way. Personally I think the Sami are super-interesting, and would hate to say “no that’s not true any more,” but on the other hand I’m not going to go out of my way to make sure that white Uktena are endorsed over any other of the ethnicities they’ve gotten tangled up with.
I’m glad to hear that. I found it kind of unfortunate that the Uktena were involved with other minorities (besides those found in America).
That said, I like the text a lot.
See, personally I’ve always liked the Uktena drawing kin from various tribal and indigenous minorities around the world, but either way its a minor point.
Well the easy way around it would be to simply use vague terms like ‘rumors associate them with various indigenous people around the world such as the Samí of Lapland, the Kurds of Iraq, the Ainu of Japan, the Naga of Burma, the Garifuna of Belize, the Kabyle Berbers, etc.’ Or something to that effect. No particular need to give any one ethnic minority over any of thousands of others.
Personally I’ve always found the multicultural elements of the Uktena interesting, but then if you aren’t setting a chronicle in Scandinavia, Samí Uktena become much less important. My personal interpretation has generally been of the Uktena being concentrated in the Americas, mostly the southern US and Mexico, down into the Caribbean, Central America and even parts of South America. There’s no shortage of Native, mixed blood, creolized and immigrant cultures to mix and match, and if nothing else, given their Indian roots, it would make sense that the Uktena haven’t had much time to travel abroad and breed overseas much. The Aboriginal Uktena in Australia were likely the result of stealing remaining Bunyip kinfolk (though that may not hold true anymore with the tendency in Revised to portray the Bunyip as a separate Changing Breed entirely).
As for European Uktena… no I can’t see many WASPy Uktena. Given their history that’s pretty much a given, but there are no small numbers of minority European groups, some of which did immigrate to the Americas. I’ve always at least considered the possibility of urban Uktena embracing Italian strega, Jewish kabbalists and the like. The traditions of Appalachian Hoodoo (a mixture of Native American, European and African folklore) and Brujeria (Hispanic, Native American and African) fit quite well as mentioned above. If nothing else, it seems horribly out of character for the Uktena NOT to try stealing European magic as well.
I cannot possibly express the degree to which I approve of
1) the fact that there’s no “mystic native says technology baaaaad” in the glass walker stereotype.
2) The most recent revision of the picture.
Seriously, excellent work on this whole thing. Love it.
I like this, though it doesn’t have quite the oomph of the Fenrir write-up. Still, this is good. It emphasizes that there is distrust all around, and that some of the things Uktena have uncovered aren’t necessarily healthy for Garou to know, but are still valuable tools to help Gaia. I also like that you emphasized a more mythically-accurate description of the Uktena totem.
I would rephrase this sentence somewhat:
“When the arrival of the Europeans changed everything, and their Kin were much reduced in number, the Uktena chose to adapt.”
“Arrival” and “much reduced in number” greatly strike me as excessively euphemistic ways to describe what the Europeans actually did to Native Americans. The language should be strengthened here, especially since this piece should show some of how the Uktena feel about their own history. And “chose to adapt” should probably be changed to something like “have been determined to adapt.”
I like “chose to adapt” since older sources refer to a tribal moot and active decision. Whether or not an individual person (or a single sept) upheld that choice might be a whole other story. If one plays a asian Uktena in Werewolf:Wild West there might sure be some Tribemates who feel that you shouldn’t be part of their tribe…
I agree. The write-up should emphasize the Uktena’s view of things, with all the biases that includes. Whites should be portrayed as invaders and oppressors, just as the Fenrir’s write-up should emphasize the idea that the Pure Ones (and Fianna, Black Furies, etc) were too weak to hold their territory.
Why hello there Sense Wyrm.
I very much like the ‘ what do they know’ aspect of there tribal opinions. The whole ‘struggle ( and sometimes fali) to overcome bitterness and feuds because they know there counter productive’ ethos sits very well with me. Its very garou 🙂
Oh and I really liked the picture
Excellent write up. Sad to see we won’t be seeing the other ones 🙂
Really love the shadow lord stereotype by the way.
As for constructive comments, my only true gripe (Uktenas across the world) has been mentioned by someone else and already answered to. Other than that, if I really wanted to be picky, I’d suggest expanding on the totem a bit. Primarily because Uktena is a very confusing totem for some people… including me. Some see him as peaceful and wise considering the tribe he spawned, and others refer to the revised tribe book version and see him as extremely violent. Both make sense to me.
I think part of the problem is that Uktena isn’t a familiar mythical creature from Western myth like Chimera, Pegasus, Griffin, Unicorn or even Fenris. The same standard applies to the Windigo I suppose, but at least that has sort of filtered down into pop culture to a degree.
The description of the Totem sort of addresses that by comparing him to Sea Serpents and Asian dragons, the latter being a very good example of mixing ‘wisdom’ and ‘dangerous.’ I think its quite appropriate (especially considering that it plays up on the multicultural element of the Uktena; Asian American Uktena might address the Totem as more of dragon, while Latino Uktena can draw on Quetzalcoatl and black Uktena could use Damballah).
Considering that I can’t find anything really bad about the write-up nor anything that’s particularly inspiring… So I guess it’s okay.
Then again I’ve never had much interest to play an Uktena.
I like it.. it hits on the aspects that I find particularly appealing about the Uktena, without wandering over the line into cliche.
@Ethan: Since we’re not going to get to see the other tribes. Would you mind if dropped a few ideas about them here?
That’s fine. It’s not that I’m not interested in more ideas about them, of course; but after the initial explosion of conversation on Furies and the relatively low-key response on the Get and Uktena, it seems things are headed in the right direction, and it may be time to preview something else next.
I would say posting the spreads should continue. There might come some stuff that people want to change/think represents the tribe badly, in them.
It might also be that the Get and Uktena are more “simple” tribes in concept, one being a tribe of warriors par none and the other being mystics par none compared to the no-men allowed three-sided femininity of the Furies. Thus provoking less comments.
But by all means do drop in either snippets or whole spreads, we’ll dissect and rip and gorge them to fill our insatiable lust for what is the W20.
Aww, I was saving a rant about the Red Talons so that I could see how they were actually presented in W20 before ragging on them.
Thank you Ethan, I join my voice to those of Ana Mizuki and Blue Fox but I do understand your standpoint.
I’ll keep the tribes separated so if someone wants to comment on a specific tribe, it will make things easier.
Disclaimer: This is just a compilation of personal thoughts and aprehensions, it makes no assumptions about anything and it certaintly has no pretence other than to hopefully help somehow.
Bone Gnawers: A truly great tribe with a unique flavor, unfortunately it is struck with the Malkavian syndrome. Because of their lighter tones and greater emphasis on humor, It’s the misunderstood tribe people play to make a quick comic relief style character. However, I think, this tribe has great potencial for drama and depth which is often left untapped. I’m not saying no one ever plays them with depth, some of you probably do and kudos, I love you guys, wish you were in my games. What I’m suggesting is may be it would benefit the tribe’s image to try and make sure the points gets across that these people have really difficult lives and what lead them to it is probably is probably anything but humorous. This way, people who want to play a really deep Bone Gnawer has an easier time seeing their potencial and people who want to call pizzas from the sewer grates like the Ninja Turtles can do that as well. That’s really my only point for those.
Lupus and Metis: Good luck, I don’t even know where to start on those with this tribe. I’d love to know what you went with. Stray dogs type feel, sure, but beyond that…
I think their humour can be shown in a much serious light, if you ask yourself this; why do they laugh? Why do Bone Gnawers make mock up rites, make mock up fetishes and treat everything so lightly? Because they realise that everything the garou above them revere is a joke. They live in crumbling castles full of old relics that will never become anything more than relics. The Gnawers know this, and show it in their behaviour. And truly, what is there to lose anyone for them? Dance Macabre, that’s their style.
Another aspect that really gets ignored a lot is their political side. Out of all the tribes, Gnawers are most likely to hold elections and listen to everyone’s voice.
Lupus: I think BG and GW lupus show one aspect of the breed that is not often shown, ability to adapt. Especially Gnawers lupus are wild on the street. They live in the dumps, hunting what they can. But like any artful dodge, they have learnt the ways of the city and are using them quite well. This is their forest, their terrotority, and they are masters of it.
That’s true. Rage of Russia and it’s follow up story in A World of Rage showed me their political side like never before and it was quite interesting.
Children of Gaïa: Usually well described in general. I’m pretty confident for them. The only think I think would be important to remember is that they care less about ranks and breeds than other tribes, think a metis started the tribe (I think) and have unique septs positions (hand of the godess and so on).
Lupus and Metis: I think the Metis are more than covered with this tribe, but the lupus may be a bit more complex. After all, a wolf doesn’t get the concept of peace, if it’s attacked it defends itself or flees. It doesn’t think about “saving everyone” or “helping everyone” or “self-sacrifice”. It just acts, now, and generaly aims for self preservation. Going out of its way to help others is not their ways in general. However, in a pack, there is a usually a caregiver and they usually stand for each other and nurture each other, so, at least in the Garou version of the level of the pack unit, some wolves could be great members of the tribe and magnificient healers (due to mothe’s touch and high gnosis).
For CoG, I think one ignored aspect is their dark side. No, not the uber peace side. What makes an antagonist Cog? What makes them bad?
For me, their crusade for peace. Like the StarGazers, the Children of Gaia are the garou who will lecture you to death with their morality. It goes without saying, that they will also fight and die for it.Underneath the hippy and peace image is a tribe of moral crusaders who do not think they are right, they KNOW they are right. They -will- spread their gospel no matter what, and unite the tribes under one glorious banner. Even their name denotes it, Children of Gaia. A.k.a everything under the sun and moon.
I gotta admit, I never really saw the CoG like that but that does sound like an interesting take for a character.
Wendigo: I’ll skip right ahead to those, because I actually have scecific things to highlight.
Wendigo VS Sasquatch: There’s a ton of confusion on the Wendigo side of things. Rage and Russia tells us that there are Wendigo in Russia. Those never crossed the Detroit and never saw Sasquatch turn into Wendigo. So… aren’t they to the other Wendigos what the Haken are to the Shadow Lords? A completely different tribe with a completely different culture that just happens to have the same totem? May be it would be worth exploring, may be not in the core book, but in a companion eventually OR, if this is getting retconned, may be just point out that there are no Wendigo outside of America and expand on this concept in a theoretical future book?
Savagery: Wendigos get more reknown for particularly gory kills. This comes from a tribe book and I beleive it’s an important part of the tribe’s mindset. Understanding the hows and whys of this helps understand the tribe’s slightly more alien mind (alien to modern man anyway).
Canibalism: A pretty big deal with them and one that I beleive should definately be mentioned. I liked how someone mentioned in a book that Wendigo is the only one of his rare, being a canibal is impossible.
Purity and Rites: May be its just in my head, but their are the best cleansers in the nation. After the Guralh and the Grondr, I think they have the strongest purification rites of all. If it’s not just in my head, may be putting this to the fore may be a nice and fresh perspective on the tribe. One that’s likely to make some other garou stop and ponder whose right and whose wrong in this conflict.
My own tribe that I’d like to see discussed; StarGazers.
First of all, the Gazers are a tribe that is often disliked, and for a good reason. They have the preachy nature of the Children of Gaia, combined with the calmness and balance of a saint. They call other garou out on being too filled with anger, which naturally results in challenges. Now, if the tribe was simply striving for balance, this wouldn’t be such a problem. But often when a garou challenges Gazer, the next move is to Kailindo the western barbarian to dust. It sure is easy to win arguments, when you have a super duper skill you can just use to do it.
Oh, and they also have their own Silver Pack, the Jade Sentai with the totem Suzaku. Silver Fangs do not have a Quicksilver Pack, Get don’t have a Fenris pack,etc. They all have the same Silver Pack, execpt the Gazers who get their own because universe just loves them. Same with Kailindo, Klaivaskar is a common skill among the Nation. But Kailindo is this super duper speshul StarGazers exclusive skill.
Basically, when people say StarGazers are special, they are 100% correct.
So, I would suggest making Kailindo a widespread skill, similar to Klaivaskar. Also, while the Gazers have a lot of weaknesses, they often are offset by the insane benefits they get. Show them as they are, garou who have chosen to follow a monastic way of life. How it hurts their breeding rates, how it makes them treat their ahroun as lesser. Show flaws in their ways, and make them as big as their benefits.
Well revised books pretty much ignored the Stargazers sans their tribe book and rage against the world and where Beast courts were mentioned (I’d say that’s a pretty big ‘off-set’ for their perceived munckinness) . Also most of your gripes are talked about in revised TB. In fact even the Rokea & Naga have more word count in revised books.
Feng-Huang is the Jade sentai totem not Suzaku.
Most whines about SG that I’ve encountered were about “the monks” being too dull and that “werewolf kung-fu” was silly.
Kailindo would need an overhaul in any case.
I really wouldn’t mind seeing kailindo relegated to an entirely meditative art with no combat application whatsoever. I feel like it makes more sense and seems less hokey that way.
Indeed. If the Gazers truly have found balance, they should not need to resort to violence to win arguments. Even challenges can be done without shedding blood.
Well if we’re getting rid of Kailindo as a martial art then we should really get rid of CoG stick fighting as well.
I actually like the SG philosophy of “what you really need you already had when you were born”. Relying only in ones innate abilities and skills a nice contrast to the common “Christmas tree-syndrome” so typical in many in rpg’s.
I always did find Kailindo strange. I mean, norally mixed-morphing requires the expediture of a willpower and a Dex+Stam roll diffiulty 8.
In game, it means : It’s really, really hard.
How do you base an efficient martial art on that?
Also, to the SG way of thinking, anything is already set and everything physical is just an illusion of the weaver… so we don’t need food, we don’t need drinks, we don’t need to fight the Wyrm, and we certainly don’t need to create a new martial art.
As for Iskkaku (or something like that) the CoG martial art, may be it could be kept, depends if it makes sense and is balanced enough. I haven’t check that in forever.
I won’t lie, I’m strongly considering not messing with stats for Kailindo or other niche martial arts. It’s a lot of word count, gameplay that we won’t have much time to really look at closely, and super-specialized in terms of “how many characters will this affect?”
Oh well maybe in companion then?
Because Garou martial arts as a whole and not just Kailindo seriously need some revision.
Maybe you could see if there’s something to “steal” from nWoD in this regard? I don’t recall much complaint about nWoD fighting styles.
As a 2nd edition stargazer fan: AWWWWWWWWnnnn. 🙁
As a Werewolf fan, i think the idea is neat. I think Kailindo would be a great thing for, i don’t know, a web-based supplement PDF thingy, because it’s too niche.
Blue Fox:
You’re joking about the complaints about the nWOD FS Merits… right?
Read it again heavy arms. I said I don’t recall many complaints, I did not say there is not something to improve in them. I also heavily implied that there might be something worth borrowing for owod.
Mainly to fix the fact there really aren’t any combat skills/martial arts in oWoD except WW Ishkakku, klaivaskar & kailindo… Well there’s those near broken ones in KotE but I never liked that system and wod combat was just horrid rip-off from street fighter rpg’s mechanics.
Have you… looked at the nWOD forums about the FS Merits? There’s a lot of complaints about them.
I don’t really see the value in specialized combat Abilities. The nWOD needs them because basic combat is very limited in your options; so the Merits giving you access to lots of maneuvers is useful. The cWOD baseline combat already included a large selection of maneuvers.
Glass Walkers: The Glass have a serious issue with the concept of following Gaïa and Luna’s teachings. It’s their right, but the fact remains that people are going to have natural assumptions regarding all tribes which are just plain not true in the case of the Glass Walkers. These things, I believe, would profit from being found in the core book even if they detract from the “norm” and are usually covered in the tribe’s book. In the specific case of the Glass Walkers, I think it would be important to mention that their definition of the auspices are radically different, that they rule the litany very uniquely and that they are terrified of their kinfolks.
I’m not very fond of the idea of saying “Look, everything we’ve told you in this book does not apply to this tribe — if you want to play a werewolf like you’ve been reading about, only with tech, you can’t do that. They’re radically different in a lot of ways that we won’t explain because we have less than 1200 words.” It’s not helpful to the player: it’s helpful to a ST who wants to enforce ideas from a tribebook, but it doesn’t do anything to prepare a player for an ST like that except inform them that they shouldn’t assume they know anything about how their character works.
If we have space to detail a variance — like, say, the general tenor of alternate rulings on the Litany — great, we can tackle that. But I don’t like the idea of saying “Everything you know is wrong, but we don’t have space to tell you what’s right, go find the tribebook.”
I understand. Even if I plead to the contrary.
I think my standpoint stems from my prefered play style: LARP. In mid to large games communication and informations spreading can become an issue. I remember feeling totaly lost, several years ago, when Brujah players suddenly started having class and making no sense to me who thought I knew the world of Vampire. I was playing last editions Core Book, they were playing latest Clan book. Wouldn’t have happened on table top, I agree. An ST would have decided the “versions” and made sure everyone was on the same page. So, may be my argument is invalid considering it’s primarily a table top core book.
Nevertheless, may I suggest this: simply adding something like “Glass Walkers tend to be a bit more liberal with their interpretation of the auspice roles given by Luna. For exemple, a Glass Walker ahroun may decide to fight against the Wyrm with the full force of the justice system by becoming an environmental lawer”. This might open the player’s mind to a wider range of auspice interpretations when playing as a Glass Walker without going in depth or using too much words.
I would like to see the other tribal spreads, but I’ll post some general thoughts now.
Bone Gnawers: Some books paint these guys with the “poor people are lazy” stereotype. Gnawers are the guys who would rather slack off than go fight the Wyrm. Please, please get rid of this concept for W20. Yes, the tribe accepts some werewolves that other tribes reject, but their lives are hard, and where they live they can’t AFFORD to slack off. The slums and scabby cities are where the worst shit of the Wyrm and Weaver come to have toxin tea, and the Gnawers have to be SHARP, TOUGH, willing to get their hands dirty, and willing to bloody their claws to survive there. They aren’t poor because they’re lazy, and they aren’t going to be lazy just because they’re poor. Also, it’s an extremely offensive stereotype in the real world, too.
Stargazers: I see their great flaw as their idea of subsuming the Rage and trying to push it aside. The Children of Gaia want peace between tribes but not with the Wyrm. The Stargazers, like the Red Talons, want to deny and ignore a pretty basic, integral part of being a werewolf. There should be some dysfunction as a result, and that’s where I think you can get a lot of flaws for them (that and their arrogance, preachiness, and self-righteousness).
Martial arts: I can understand if there’s not enough room to include these, but I do think that their existence should not be discarded for W20, especially if there can be a Companion later on. Maybe Kailindo needs to be radically rewritten (I don’t have any books with it) but the basic idea of a Garou-specific martial art is a good idea. Real martial arts take very specific advantage of the shape and balance and weight of the human body, the flexibility of joints and muscles, the locations of weak points, how our lungs and feet and fingers work, everything. Using a human martial art would be very difficult (and less effective) in glabro, and impossible in the other forms. Yet the Garou are warriors. Why WOULDN’T they have developed a martial art that uses all five forms? If anything, I’d expect the Hakken, Khan, Asian Nagah, Kitsune, and Nezumi to have created their own Breed-specific unarmed martial arts as well.
Likewise, Klaiviskar and Iskakku, and probably other weapons arts from other tribes and breeds, are just to be expected with creatures that fight a lot and have three or five forms instead of our single body.
Well, actually the Nezumi and Nagah probably wouldn’t bother with martial arts.
Anyway, my point is that humans haven’t invented martial arts that you use in crinos, hispo, and glabro, but Garou have every reason to do so. Likewise, Klaiviskar is going to work differently from human sword-fighting styles both for the specific weight and shape of the typical klaive, and for using it in crinos and glabro.
“Kung Fu Werewolves” is one of those iconic, crazy-ass ideas that I’d expect W20 to be celebrating. I’ll be disappointed if W20 just gives them a copy-paste job.
I cannot agree more with the thoughts on the Bone Gnawers! They are such a wonderful tribe, the first that I really liked when I read the story set in New York City in the first edition of Werewolf: the Apocalypse. The Bone Gnawers are a noble tribe, but they are fighting the war in places that the rest of Garou won’t go. I would hate to see them relegated to the status of ‘just poor cousins’ in W20… Though I doubt such would be the case.
I’m glad someone else cares about them, too. : )
I agree. They are definetly not the ‘losers’ of garou nation that are in the spot because their human kin was too poor. These guys do own their terrotory and the ways to survive there.
+1
I can pretty much guarantee that although the “poor people are lazy” stereotype may persist in other tribes’ opinions of the Bone Gnawers, the entire point of that stereotype is that it’s misleading. There isn’t a single tribe in this book that I want to portray as actually as bad as the other tribes make them out to be — or as flawless as they claim to be, either.
At the speed that the Glasswalkers are having to evolve to keep up with the humans, even the Random Interrupts had only really been around for 15 or so years before the end of the original CWoD… and it’s 8 years after that. Are the Random Interrupts outdated? We live in a world where everyone carries a cell phone with a 5MP camera, can upload to YouTube, and virtually walk through most large cities via Google Street View (at least in our world), and none of that really existed in 2004. In some ways, we’re almost closer to Shadowrun than we were in 1992 when Werewolf began. We’re basically a generation from the 2004 story, and since the Glasswalkers prefer to learn by doing, rather than from Elders and Tradition, I’m eager to learn if their philosophies, methods and Camps are still the same, or if some new group has popped up.
So sign me up with the “Show us the other Tribes” camp. 😀
For starters the GW’s would be helluwa lot more careful when monkey wrenching Pentex and it’s subsidiaries after 9/11 and it’s fallout on everything, that’s for sure.
True. Then again, all they’d have to do is fund “reality shows” a la “Whale Wars” and the likes, and they might get positive press for their eco-terrorism too. 😉
Then again, this IS the WoD, so nothing good can happen for the “good guys” anyways. 😉
But for the Warders of Man, they’re likely to be the most changed over the last 8 years in how their tribe, their culture and methods have changed than any of the other “traditionalist” Tribes who’s methods, cultures and the likes are still based heavily on older beliefs that take time to alter, if at all. Other than what they’ve reluctantly adapted into their arsenal, and what their kinfolk have also adopted culturally, even the Uktena and Fianna are likely to still be less changed than the world has around them, but the Glasswalkers are always riding the waves of change in the Human world… for better and worse. 🙂 So I think seeing even more updates on them is appropriate, where as “what are they like now?” sections for the other Tribes might be less populated.
The GWs also have an array of tools they could have only dreamed of in 2004. Think about it: Every Pentex employee is probably carrying around a mobile surveillance device that can get access to the Pentex wireless servers. Enterprising hacker GWs can do huge amount of digital sabotage and espionage on Pentex’s companies using tools that are simply too ubiquitous for Pentex to ban in their buildings. And they can hide behind dozens of mortal organizations like Anonymous and Wikileaks to avoid being directly implicated.
Or the City Farmers could start using KickStarter to fund urban renewal projects and use the web to spread the positive spiritual vibes such efforts give off to an even wider audience.
Speaking of mobile surveillance… Control machine and jam technology-type gifts would be in real high vogue these days among the city dwelling Garou.
Consider all those surveillance cameras in the street corners and smart phones and iPad’s and what not in almost every persons pockets that can take a video or picture.
I’d like to see a little clarification/expansion of the non-Native American Uktena kinfolk, specifically where they’re located. (I was always a bit unclear on this point, but Uktena is the one Revised Tribebook I don’t own, so maybe it’s cleared up there.) Are the oppressed ethnic groups they brought under their wing those that came to the Americas, or has the tribe spread worldwide, breeding with the oppressed as they went?
Both. At least as far back as Second Edition, there was material referring to Uktena and their kinfolk amongst Australian Aborigines (Rage Across Australia), Siberian Yakuts and Mongols (Rage Across Russia), and the Ainu of Japan (Hengeyokai). By that same token, the Uktena were/are a mostly American Tribe, though that would include rural black communities in the Deep South, Caribbean islanders, Andean Indians, Southeast Asian immigrants, and mestizos on the US-Mexico border as well.
Wow. Very cool. Personally I’ve never seen the Uktena as a ‘least picked Tribe.’ Quite the contrary; they are my favorite Tribe. I’ve always been drawn to the idea of multicultural mutts who freely draw on various ‘dark’ and ‘forbidden’ magics. It doesn’t tie them to any particular culture while at the same time keeping them undeniably ‘ethnic.’ Seminole, Masai, Ainu, Zulu, Maori, Jivaro, Hmong, Zenú or Yaqui, Pawnee… Pretty much any culture or combination of cultures fits perfectly.
As far as specific comments on this piece, I love the Prescott art. Very good to see a nod to the Uktena’s roots in the Southwest (even if Uktena itself is a name from Cherokee myth). Between the cowboy look and the various cultural fetishes on her belt, the piece really matches the description under the Appearance section.
I like that the Uktena are kept away from the ‘shiny, happy New Age’ descriptions that Second Edition occasionally veered into. Its the World of DARKNESS, and the Uktena are werewolves. They are supposed to be a little menacing, scary even, not because they are ‘dark skinned’ but rather because they are into DARK magic. I’ve always thought of them as representing some of the bloodiest and most primal forms of magic. Equal parts Hollywood voodoo, old school witchcraft, and Aztec priests ripping the hearts out of sacrificial victims.
Sure, its playing up certain elements, specifically the more sinister ones, but like I said, its the World of DARKNESS. Many of those same things are what make the Shadow Lords interesting too.
I’ve never seen the Uktena as entirely ‘anti-European.’ Like I said in some earlier comments, it would be quite fitting in having the Uktena poaching both certain European minority groups and stealing European magics (and, in fact, traditions like Hoodoo, Brujeria and Afro-Caribbean religions are mostly mixtures of African, Native American and European folklore). But then that’s just my two cents.
I also liked the fact that Uktena was linked with various analogues from other cultures. Asian dragons, sea serpents and the like. It may help convey the concept better. Uktena – and similar Horned Water Serpents – as well as the Algonquin Mishibizhiw, or Water Panther, are a pretty big part of American Indian cultures but they have little reference in pop culture. Even Windigo have more. Linking Uktena with various similar water serpent creatures, perhaps Damballah in Voudon, Quetzalcoatl for the Aztecs and the Rainbow Serpent of the Aborigines (though that might be stepping on the Bunyip’s toes a bit; is Bunyip or Rainbow Serpent their Totem now? I vaguely recall it changing) seems a smart move.
But the coolest part of the write-up, imho, are the little things. Brief mention of the Bane Tenders (which were always a big part of the Uktena), contacts with other Changing Breeds, and the rest are all just really good use of flavor. Looking forward to their Gifts. Spirit of the Lizard? Goes well with Spirit of the Bird and Spirit of the Fish I suppose.
I also hope to see more of the tribe write-ups. My concern with is with the Children of Gaia and you don’t go too far into the preachy, uber-hippie stereotype. I’ve always seen them as a caring, long-term thinking (building humans up to spiritually and mentally to be less vulnerable to the Wyrm, keeping the other tribes together to focus on a bigger enemy, etc) healer tribe that can be just as lethal as any other Garou. I like the tribe so I hope it will be more like the first tribebook than the revised one.