Hey! Look what is now available in PDF, PoD, and PDF+PoD combos! Demon: The Descent! More on this below.
Had a good Monday Lunch Meeting with Eddy Webb today. We had exchanged missives over the weekend as he hashed together the outline for the book we had called Blood Diaries of the Clans, so we continued that conversation. That title originally came about because we knew we wanted to do a honking massive (not missive) look at the 13 Clans presented in V20. But while we wanted to evoke the original Clanbooks, we didn’t want anybody expecting all the various parts of the several editions of Clanbooks that were out there. We wanted, and still need, to have room to develop the book as this particular book needs to be developed, without false restrictions through creating expectations based on past books. So Blood, because vampires, Diaries replacing “books”, and finally of the Clans so folks would know these were looks at the Clans without saying Clanbooks.
Now, in reviewing the project, Eddy is making sure that each clan section has two qualities: one, it presents each Clan so that you should feel like you absolutely must play this Clan after reading it (The Chupp Test) and two, that each section has a strong and consistent “voice” that personifies the Clan. But, and here is why we’re looking at changing the name, they aren’t designed to be all in-character like the Requiem Clanbooks, for example. So Diaries is a bit misleading as it seems to set up that in-character approach (and we have a different book slated for 2015 that is far more of a diary). Which leads us to Eddy wanting to rename the project. If you folks have any ideas- send him a missive here with your suggestions.
Now to get to the title topic- let’s talk about Print on Demand, although as one of the reasons I’m writing this, PoD could stand for Price of Demon. Or Paltry ol’ Discount.
We’ve had some comments where folks were surprised at the cost of Demon in PoD on DTRPG, or our RedBubble Store T-shirts, or our Deluxe KS pledge pricing, and I just want to briefly touch on this because I really do understand the concern. Overall, it comes down to the business model Onyx Path is following in order to stay capable of staying in business for, well, forever. Unlike WW in its heyday, we do not have a warehouse nor a sales department. We don’t saddle ourselves with inventory that must be moved in order for us to survive. So we look to partner with companies which have facilities for sales and shipping. OneBookShelf, which contains both DTRPG and DriveThruCards, is one of those venues, as is RedBubble. They do not store physical products either, but offer Print on Demand products from the electronic files we place in their storefronts.
This products are literally Print on Demand- you place your order and they are created for you and shipped to you. You demanded, and they printed. This results in Onyx being able to put the Anarchs T-shirt design up at RedBubble for sale and so long as we make enough sales to cover the time it took to do the design and upload it, we have covered the only costs for that shirt Onyx will incur. Everything after that is gravy, and we can leave that design up there with no cost to us. This means we can feel free to design things that aren’t limited by traditional printing or distribution methods, gameline niche projects, or a very different book like the W20 Cookbook- which we had no idea would be as popular as it has proved to be. This ties into us being able to be more responsive to our fan community, and more nimble on our creative feet.
The downside is that we don’t get a bulk pricing discount with printing as we traditionally did because each PoD product is done one at a time, so the pricing is higher. If you picture a big ol’ printing press whirling along, with a roll of paper or individual sheets getting printed and stacked at the end- all those sheets keep getting printed because this machine is designed to keep running. Once it starts, it is better to let it keep printing more and more pages. Mass quantities is what its set up for. So the more you print the better, and each page is comparatively cheaper the more you print. PoD printers aren’t set up to run and run; they have an operating cycle that is much shorter and is designed to be able to do a single book. So very different, but designed to shine at doing different things.
PoD printing only just began delivering the quality that a Premium Color version from DTRPG can deliver, but the price of a single copy at that quality is justifiably high, which means we have to price the book higher. Now make this a 400 page book, and since the price per page printed doesn’t decrease the more pages it has to print, the price rises accordingly. Similarly, any discount can’t dip below the cost of creating the PoD product or we actually will lose money on the project. Which would be bad.
We know the prices are tough for some folks, which is why we always try to present options for the books- Standard vs Premium color, for example- as well as try and find the lowest cost but highest quality PoD printers to work with. It’s not the 90’s, we just aren’t set up to that model of business or pricing, but we like to think that we’re giving folks more options, and hitting quality benchmarks higher, than we could back in the day.
Speaking of options, look at all these in-progress projects:
– Mummy the Curse – Cursed Necropolis DC is in layout and art is coming in.
– Exalted 3rd Edition: From Holden: Occult is provisionally finished, though we might go back and add two or three more Charms once the sorcery section has been completely finalized. Lore Charms are now being worked on. Elsewhere, we’re focusing this week on Evocations, and will be looking at some finalized Evocation arrays (their structure is more of an array than a tree) to do some size and content estimates for Arms of the Chosen.
Zub’s EX3 Comic is almost finished being illustrated and both EX3 novels are being worked on. Starting to get one of the EX3 Music Suites to a finished state, the Dragon Blooded theme.
– V20 Hunters Hunted 2: US/Canadian missing packages being gone through case by case- at this point I should have messaged all of you back. Still hearing every day from International backers who are getting their packages, so it does seem that all International packages have been sent.
– V20 Anarchs Unbound : Backers had their chance to get the discounted AU shirt, and now the extra text on the added Free State is being worked on- plus an added Free State that Justin was so passionate about that we’re including as a bonus.
– Deluxe Werewolf 20th Anniversary Edition: As with HH2, US/Canadian missing packages being gone through case by case- at this point I should have messaged all of you back. Still hearing every day from International backers who are getting their packages, so it does seem that all International packages have been sent. The Heavy Metal Deluxe W20 is slowly being assembled- the W20 disc should be with the printer now. Mike Lee has a new batch of chapters of the W20 “Houses of the Moon” novel for Bill to review. Jess Hartley has the White Howlers Tribe Book in red-lining and is jumping back into inputting changes. W20 Wyld West is in editing and is being art directed.
– Mage the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition- the Deluxe M20 Kickstarter KS has about a week to go and we have (as of this writing) 2826 backers, and $470,499 in pledges! We’ve passed 17 Stretch Goals including 3 early t-shirt designs, a Character Pack PDF Parts 1&2&3, a Quickstart PDF, a PDF on the way the Spheres work, an increase in the art budget, Book of Secrets PDF Parts 1&2, two more silk bookmarks, a Mage20 Fiction Anthology, The Book of the Fallen PDF, a free PDF of the classic Infernalism: The Path of Screams, a pay bump for the creative team, and unlocked the Ultra-Deluxe M20 Quintessence Edition- which is really close to hitting the minimum 200 copies pledged for that we need to go to press. Come check it out, the fun is just starting! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/deluxe-mage-the-ascension-20th-anniversary-edition
– W20 Changing Breeds PDF and PoD versions are on sale at DTRPG! Deluxe files are with the printer- proofs were shown to backers and are back with the printer. The cover emboss needed a tweak and has been. The Changing Breeds Fiction Anthology in editing.
– W20 Book of the Wyrm is in layout. This will be the next Kickstarter project if everything times out as expected. We think this book should appeal to W20 and W20 Changing Breeds fans alike.
– V20 Rites of the Blood: is ready for layout, but layout is not yet ready for it, art finals rolling in.
– Trinity Continuum: New System ideas continue being hammered out. Most of the Aeon setting material is in. Logo discussion has started. We’re looking at starting some preliminary blog posts. We’re looking at posting the New System for community review before we roll it into either Scion or the TC, so getting that ready. Having an at meeting this week.
– Scion: New Systems discussion continue. Both Scion and the TC above are now moving into active mode for 2014. Contracts and art notes out for the Scion: Origins cover.
– Demon: The Descent: As above: Demon is now available in PDF/PoD/PDF&PoD combo versions. The Demon: Ready Made Characters PDF link has been sent to backers. Demon Seed Collection is in first drafts. DtD Seattle is in first redlines. Heirs to Hell is in second drafts. Demon Translation Guide is being written.
– Hunter: Mortal Remains: Art coming in and going in for approval to CCP, and is back in editing.
– Book of the Deceived (MtC): Redlines. The loss of a writer means their section has to be given to a new writer, CAS is on top of it.
– nWoD: Dark Eras: Writers are following up on redlines except for one chapter which is having writer issues.
– V20 Dark Ages: Scribes are scribing 2nd Drafts. David Hill has recently moved to a new country and is still acclimating, more info once he is settled in.
– DtD Players Guide: Flowers Of Hell?: In layout and being art directed.
– V20: Ghouls: First drafts coming into to the developer for redlines.
– V20 Red List: In final draft stage.
– The Making of the Art of Children of the Revolution: Out to backers who pledged for it. Creating PoD files to go with PDF for sale on DTRPG.
– W20: The Umbra: In redlines.
– WtF: The Idigam Chronicle: First drafts being written.
– GtSE: Geist Ready Made Characters: In redlines.
– Also: April 1 is coming and you gotta know when to hold ’em…
Reason to Drink: Data input makes me thirsty!
Hey, some of us are still hoping for a C20 one of these days!
Let’s see how Wraith 20 goes first!
Very, very exciting. I supported W20, M20 and I can’t wait for Wraith and Changleing!
I was a little surprised at the cost of the PoD for Demon, a little. But then again, everything everywhere has raised in price so my surprise didn’t last long. As the shopkeepers at my Hookah Lounge have displayed “Cheap Service ain’t good, Good service ain’t cheap”. Cheers Onyx Path, a few extra bucks won’t keep me from fleshing out my library.
When I was a poor student, as opposed to now where I’m just poor, I relied on 2nd hand items and the such to fill in my library, sometimes I was lucky and I found something I wanted in good condition, SOMETIMES.
Now that I’m wiser, I by far stand that so long as you get what you pay for you have no excuse to shell out the dollars.
Better binding, better art, better creativity…With the nacent Onyx Path and the Current Onyx path I have gotten my dollar’s worth every time, especially with the Kickstarter methods of pledge rewards.
Glad to hear it!
My mine problem is the freight charges. Even though we have a Lightning Source facility in Australia, shipping vie Drive Thru is around 25 dollars. I have contacted Drive Thru and they said they would check with their tech guys why this was the case. Like you posted above, Onyx Path can’t influence what their partners are doing. Freight charges seem to be a major sticking point with purchases from overseas. I am going to have to wait patiently for my Deluxe Demon copy later this year 🙂 Keep up the good work.
and the shipping cost for Brazil is $50+ USD
Darkfool – as you should also hear back from our team since you contacted them, there are multiple reasons why our print program does not currently make use of Lightning Source’s Australian facility (we print Australian orders at the LS UK facility instead).
The primary reason is that the LS Aust facility charges outrageous prices for printing. Books printed by LS UK are about 20% more expensive than in the LS US faciity. Whereas LS Aust prices are closer to double the US prices.
(Despite the higher print costs at LS UK, we print Australian orders there because the Royal Mail postage options from LS UK are much more favorable than shipment charges originating from the US.)
Additionally, there are sundry issues we have integrating with LS Australia such as their inability to even supply us with a list of what freight charges will be on shipments from their Australian facility (so we know what charges we’d need to pass through to customers).
Steve
DriveThruRPG
From The Man himself! Hi Steve!
Hi Steve
I was contacted back quite promptly by your team however there was no detail given regarding why Oz Lightning Source is not used. Thank you for the information regarding printing and shipping in Australia.
I was thinking later about how even DriveThru is reliant on companies like Lightning Source and freight companies/post for their prices, so apologies for lumping the cost of Freight at your doorstep.
As Ivan (and yourself) suggested…my freight and printing charges could be worse 🙂
I just wanted to thank you once more for the help you’ve offered with my DtD problem, Mr. Thomas. And thought it’d be better here rather than blowing up the mailbox at Kickstarter. Sorry about that.
And you too Rose.
Looking forward to Heirs 🙂
No problem, Martin! And thanks!
Trinity(Aeon) Continua (sic on purpose). When will the Kickstarter for Trinity Continuum be? I want this game!
“Trinity Continua” because science fiction RPGs now need parallel universes – it’s the law (physical law).
Quinn Y – see the schedule for current information: https://theonyxpath.com/schedule/ 🙂
F***ing November?! 😛
Fucking yeah. 😉
It’s the system we need to be sure about. We expect it is coming to a resolution these next couple of months and then work on both the TC and Scion can be accelerated. Bad system rushed out is not going to give us the long term life for these two lines that we want them to have. Both lines have amazing potential, and we want the gameplay to be in lockstep with that.
*sigh* you’re right. I want it to be perfect. 🙂
I’m still waiting for hh2, but shipping to aus is always slower. B-)
Blood journals? Of the clans, maybe?
Yes it can, but I will be doing a missing International W20/ HH2 Rewards thing early April, so hopefully yours shows up before then.
It occurs to me there is a strong likelihood that Exalted 3E is the most worked-on RPG book ever made. Obviously, I don’t know how it’s going to turn out, but I strongly believe it’s going to make RPG history. So glad I was a part of that Kickstarter.
It will be Glorious!!!
Waitwaitwait
Was “Blood Diaries” not intended to be a direct translation of “Libellus Sanguinis?” Because when I first heard about Blood Diaries of the Clans, I thought it sounded like a modern nights’ version of the Libellus Sanguinis series, with the title chosen as a direct shoutout to that series.
Not that I’m aware of. Also, “libellus” is more of a small pamphlet, and “blood pamphlets” isn’t as sexy.
Yeah! Bloody Blood Pamphlets of Sexacious Blood. Sounds good- let’s exchange missives.
For the sake of clarity, Libellus has multiple definitions. While “little book, essay, pamphlet” is a valid definition, “memorandum-book, journal, diary” is another.
I find this to be quite the coincidence!
I was also a bit surprised at the cost of the PoD *Deluxe* book and had admittedly expected a deeper Kickstarter ‘discount’, but reading Rich’s post, that all makes sense.
More to the point, in a market that’s hurtling forward, OPP is one of the few companies that’s not only adapted to fit the digital/mobile new world order, but has gone ‘all in’ (+2 to the dice pool, lose Defence). As a result, as bricks-and-mortar stores close in droves, if we’re going to continue to enjoy new content moving forward, it’s going to have to be 1) generated through new business models (PDF/PoD, Kickstarter, Rich+His Hulking Brood of Contract Writers), and 2) be cost effective, and reasonably profitable for OPP.
For me (YMMV), that means buying PDFs of more content because the iPad is my new Storytelling secret weapon, and selectively shelling out for a hardback, either for a new product line (go Mummy and Demon), but also for nostalgia’s sake (long live V20 and M20), or because I just want to support OPP and chip in to make sure that other content that I don’t personally use continues to get produced for those people who do care passionately about it (HHII).
I have to admit, I’m old enough that the ‘normal’ price in my mind for a hardback roleplaying game manual is $19.99 (plus tax). Those were the days 🙂
But lo’ and behold, the standard version of God Machine Chronicle is $19.99, and for $15 more, you get a 400-page book of Demonic goodness (I don’t think I can recall something that big ever being produced for $19.99 in cWoD or AD&D, so can’t hardly complain).
Do I wish it was still the good ol’ days when there were shelf upon shelf upon shelf of beautiful hardbacks in my local gaming store – absolutely. But I’ve got more choice now, my entire library fits on my iPad, the content is just as good and just as beautiful, and the number of hefty, solid, reassuring books on my gaming shelves continues to grow.
Well-done OPP.
P.S. Rich, I swear, add a Stretch Goal that funds an assistant for you – let them do data entry and chase lost books while you focus on your strategy to unseat the Exarchs and do that creative stuff you’re so good at!!
My job is still so much about all the various nitty-gritty tasks that keep us going, and it is incredibly hard to separate out things other folks can do vs things that are so intertwined that only I have all the info necessary to make the right call. But we’re getting there. Thanks!
Hi there,
regarding the discussion point of last week, if the address changes work with surveys, I asked in the KS comments of Exalted 3rd and got a reply regarding this from Niels-Martin Trier Josefsen:
“@Christian: Well, I got a mail the other day. It said:
“Hello!
The System: Comics Will Be Published Until Morale Improves is getting ready to ship rewards. This is the address you provided in your survey response:
[My address]
If this is the correct address, you’re all set.
If this is NOT the correct address, update it here. Please make any changes within the next 48 hours.””
So I figure it works, you can see that comment atm at the top of them, in case for more questions.
I did alter the Demon Surveys and the W20 Heavy Metal Edition so backers can change their addresses, and I have a note to do the same for Changing Breeds. You have to manually turn on those changes for each Reward a Tier, so it takes a little time. So yes, it looks like it is working- and there was much rejoicing!
Wonderful, thanks alot, there will be a lot of happy people with the Exalted KS, you should give this as an information in the next E3 KS update probably. 😉
If only the waiting time for the book could be resolved that quickly too, guess gonna wait for the pdf 😀
I was just looking over the Schedule page here on the website and was seeing what were the upcoming Kickstarters you guys are doing.
I found the following:
V20 Rites of Blood
V20 Dark Ages
W20 Book of the Wyrm
V20 Ghouls
NWoD Dark Eras
Exalted Dragonblooded
W20 The Umbra
Trinity Continuum
M20 The Digital Web
Have I got that right? Is this the order they are likely to appear in as well?
Thanks
Missing Scion, which Rich said was likely in the comments to last week’s Monday Meeting.
That’s not the order that they are going to appear as. As it’s been stated and confirmed that W20 Book of the Wyrm is next after Mage 20th.
Also, some in the schedule have had name changes to their statuses. So some of these have gone from “Deluxe Kickstarter” to “Deluxe POD”. While it could mean the same thing, I’ll always wait for official confirmations via “Kickstarter to go live!” notices, KS updates, and Monday Meetings.
After all, W20 Rage Across the World was originally going to be a Kickstarter. So it’s possible that some on the list will lose a “Deluxe Kickstarter” or “Deluxe POD” status. I can only see big corebooks (20ths, Trinity, Scion, NWOD Dark Eras, and NWOD books, etc.) not losing that status. Where as Supplemental material is more vulnerable to lose it.
Wyrm is slated for next after Mage20. And none are an absolute so much so potential KS projects for this year.
Right.
I’ll be honest I’ll be happy as long as V20 Dark Ages and Dark Era’s get kickstarters. V20 Rites of Blood would be nice, but its not the end of the world if it misses out on a kickstarter option.
Hmmm, ideas for Blood Diaries (kinda silly, kinda not)
Blood Tome (D&D-ish sounding)
Blood Codex
Blood Folio (again, D&D-ish)
Blood Primer
Blood Compendium
Blood Bible
Blood Journal
Blood Treatise
Blood Blog
Anyway, that’s all I’ve got. Good luck.
What Rich failed to mention in his missive is that I’m also not keen on having yet another Vampire book with “blood” in the title. Rose released “Blood and Smoke,” and I finished up “Rites of the Blood,” so I’d love to do something that isn’t just a thesaurus find/replace for “blood” and “diary.”
Important info.
Well, it sounds possibly more like a record or a codex then a diary. And I think it might be interesting if it hinted at the traces the clans left throughout history. All the subtle and less subtle ways they changed its course and and themselves though that.
It’s long winded but it breaks from the thesaurus model and could be a starting point to a more solid idea: “Record of Undying Legacies”.
Here legacies refers to both the accomplishments of the clans and the clans themselves.
Or may be just “The Undying Records”? or “The Undying Legacies”.
Does that help?
Clan Codices?
Bloody Blood Books of Blood Bonded Blood-sucking Bloggers?
Yeah, I was kinda being a bit tongue in cheek there. Codex of the Damned?
Why not “Vigorous Ventings of the Vitae” … ok it is a bit silly but you get the point.
on a more appropriate note, why not something like “Codices of the Lost” or perhaps “Dossiers of the Night”. Though the second sounds a little hokey….
Still geeking out about the TC relaunch and new Scion! Sounds like they will be running off the same system. Wonder if that will finally allow people to end the Mal vs arguments! lol even if it is convert old to knew. I do hope like all hells ya guys KS scion and TC! At least the core books! Please! If you need any help with fan feed back please drop me a line! I am a huge fan on both these fronts!
The same base system, although I’m not against very specific tweaks that help the system rock the setting. But if you learn this system for Scion, and decide to try out Trinity, the basic way it works needs to be the same. I have every intention, and their entire launch models are based, on doing KSs for them.
Will any bloodlines be making an appearance in the upcoming clans book? It would be nice to see them getting fleshed out a little bit more, and if you aren’t planning on them being in that book any chance that could be added as a possible future stretch goal? I really enjoyed seeing them updated in V20, but I would love to more than 2 pages for them.
Has Dark Destiny been re-used as a title? Although that could suggest anthology when it wouldn’t be.
Regarding KS books: do you know yet how they will be priced on DTRPG? Will the prices for the main book PDFs be the same as the reward tiers for the same books? (such as M20 at $35) ?
The Reward Tiers are not set up to match DTRPG pricing. They are two separate products and venues. Hope that helps.
We’re still waiting on CAS to show up in the forums to give us some much-needed updates on Mummy. The fanbase isn’t reacting well to radio silence.
Some other Kickstarter users (like Jenna Moran’s Chuubo’s Marvelous Wish Granting Engine) set up online stores using Paypal so people can contribute for a limited time after the KS ends. Would that be possible here? You could also sell the excess W20 HMEs.
We’ve looked at some options, but nothing has been right for us so far.
Richt… we really like to see the new world of darkness in Brazil. We tried, but the bargaining rights of translation does not happen. Can you help us? We are grateful.
Translators who want the rights to translate and publish our projects are always welcome, but they should be ready to keep after us as we’ve got a lot on our plates just trying to get our regular books out to the public.
Hey richt any chance we can get some d10 sets as stretch goals in the future. I’m blue that I only have my changeling and promethean dice anymore. (Every set of those promethean dice I’ve ever seen roll are cursed.) But it’d be cool to have some more themed dice for my players, the highlighted 8,9, and 0 make things so efficient and stopped my one pc from cheating!!
We do not make dice. We make books in electronic and physical formats. If a partner shows up who can handle high quality dice, then maybe we can find a way to include them in our overall plans. Thanks!
Maybe you could create 3-d files of dice so people could print their own?
I’ve been excited about the Blood Diaries since they/it was announced, I’m not really worried what it will end up being called. Also, from what Justin was saying about the book and the plans for it, I’m really looking forward to the Kickstarter and the stretch goals to come.
I’m not sure when or to what aspects Justin was speaking, but keep an eye on the blogs as Eddy starts his Open Dev Process with the book for how it will develop.
He mentioned a possible collaboration with By Night Studios. This excites me greatly.
What I take away from this is that Onyx Path has a much narrower profit margin than I’d have expected, which in turn makes me wonder about how slim the old White Wolf’s margins were! Warehousing, shipping, inventory, all that logistics jazz isn’t simple or cheap (in money, manpower, attention, etc.). So I’m really glad to get these peeks into how things work with these properties I do dearly love.
Thanks for that, Rich!
This is the tabletop RPG business- everybody’s margins are really small.
Trying to follow the M20 KS and can’t. Did the entire KS website suddenly break/implode today for anyone else?
I want to respond to something Satyr said on the Mage20 Kickstarter (which I can’t afford to back, so I respond here).
Satyr mentioned that 20th lines are planned out partly based on comparing how the KS do relative to each other, and that although Mage and Werewolf sold about the same back in the day, Mage20 has had far more support than Werewolf20 did.
I for one wanted to back Werewolf20, and missed the KS entirely. I was following WW news announcements and reading the W20 development blog near-religiously and checking the WW/OPP ‘news’ page, but I never saw one word about the kickstarter until long after it was over. I would have happily backed at least the PDF if I had known.
In contrast, I have received emails telling me when Mage, Demon, Mummy, and Anarchs launched their Kickstarters.
I expect the reply will be “We announced it on FB and Twitter, if you don’t follow us there it’s your problem.” I just want to say that not everybody chooses to use FB or Twitter, and that you will miss some customers and have lower sales if you don’t connect with eager fans who find email, blogs, and websites vastly easier to navigate.
And I think there was a W20 development blog announcement, which I somehow missed for reasons that remain totally mysterious to me. I’m just saying I felt like it could have been publicized more widely.
Well, it got announced on many occasions here and on the forums as well. 😉
It was partly my fault for not paying enough attention.
I just don’t want them to think that Apocalypse isn’t popular enough!
To keep with the Latinate theme: Memento Sanguis/Vitae? Annales Tribus?