Okay, the locations chapter for the V20 Companion is up and ready for you to read! It’s here:
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1YBFFvGTSL9WtyorRmMSDJp8ZDOVjiIyR5HwWD3d6f50
I’ve been watching all of the commentary and wanted to address a few points here, instead of in-line in the comments.
- The most important thing to keep in mind as that this isn’t intended to be a survey chapter on cities or geography. The plan is to have specific locations where vampires can go and visit a very specific landmark or locale. So while I certainly understand people’s enthusiasm for wanting to see their cities investigated in a WoD context, I don’t think this is the place to do it. These are more story seeds and places of note than they are a vampiric travelogue. We’ll definitely consider doing some more “by Night” treatments, but let’s not focus on that now.
- I’ve got a mix of geography in here, which focuses mostly on the places where the Kindred hold sway: North America, South America, Europe, and northern Africa. I left the more esoteric locations untouched, as I did with places that have their own “strains” of the Cainite race. This is intentional. I wanted to be sure we had a lot of Kindred bases covered and flavor considered, since this title is a Companion to the core V20 volume and not a big divergence from the established Kindred experience. Most of your feedback as well indicated that you wanted to revisit key locations or have a new bit revealed about something that had been hinted at before. Again, we can look at greater divergence later, but I wanted to reinforce the essential Vampire experience before straying too far from the path.
- Likewise, there’s a mixture in here of specifics and the general. Some of these locations are tied to specific individuals and bits of Kindred history. Others are less specific. This is to provide the broadest utility. A troupe that wants to visit a “known” WoD figure’s domain will find places like the Tremere chantry and the Paris ossuary interesting. A Storyteller who wants a neat story hook, by contrast, can transport the Black Palace or Highgate Cemetery to a chronicle location of their own choosing. As always, Storytellers are welcome to use what they want where they want, but player feedback indicated a desire for some new locations and some new looks at established locales, so I tried to strike a balanced chord.
- You had a lot of interest in Prince Sarrasine of Sydney, and I’m still working on finding a place to detail that brings the city and Prince into the limelight.
With those things in mind, read up and give feedback, if you’d be so kind. At this stage, I’m not likely to drop a location and plug a new one in, because that’s a process that could go on forever. What I want to see is:
- Is the balance right between general and specific locations?
- Do these spark enough interest to be useful for a whole story or interesting setting?
- Is the geographical distribution good enough so that we feel like we’re dealing with a (Western) World of Darkness?
- What are you doing with these in your chronicles?
Thanks for the help! I’m looking forward to your feedback.
Initial thoughts:
– Seems kind of front-loaded. First four sites are a monastery, a cathedral, a castle, and another cathedral. Maybe shuffle them around with other locations a bit?
– I notice a lot more emphasis on the True Hand as a distinct sect. Not that I’m complaining, but it’s certainly a bit of a departure from previous editions.
– Lots of classic locations and people. Alamut, Vienna, Dr. Netchurch, Lodin, Cappaodician tunnels. Great to see, and useful for a great many players and STs.
– I laughed when I saw the Grand Masquerade entry at the end. Was it at the Roosevelt last year? I expected the Royal Sonesta to be listed instead. Although it’s a great entry as it is, and I love the concept, perhaps it could do with some rumours of the odd Lupine attending, or even “Kindred” who bear little resemblance to Cainites (Requiem vampires?).
I didn’t want to get too fanservice with the GrandMasq, but it kind of is by inclusion, so maybe I can go a little more over the top. And yes, I’ll shuffle the order around, since I think part of the feel right now has little clusters of places.
You should totally mention something like its one of the few places Dracula himself is known to frequent.
I found the mix of locations to be fairly equal. I enjoyed seeing a place that tips it’s hat to important canon npcs while at the same time seeing locations that I personally could say “Oh, neat. That will be important for my game.”
Most of the sabbat specific locations wouldn’t be usable in my regular chronicle, but I think they’re perfect for giving me ideas of where my players enemies have come from.
All in all I’d give the list an A for it’s ability to get me to think about what I might use them for.
I do feel like we’re missing an American spot, and maybe one or two European ones. I can’t help but wonder why we don’t see New York or something in Ireland. But otherwise it was a good spread across the *World* of Darkness.
I’ve only begun to recently start up a Vampire game again, but I already intend to have the Succubus club roll in as part of what kicks off the game, and I’ve bounced ideas around about a creature who pays homage to the original Cathedral of Flesh, and we’ve all talked about the Castle in Transylvania repeatedly, though for the chronicle I’m running I doubt Ill be using it.
I’ll definitely keep an eye on whether US/ Europe “feels” sparse or that’s just the reaction on first read. I know I need to reorder them, so maybe a more even distribution in the chapter can equilibrate.
I understand the idea of giving the easier sites a wider berth (as mentioned in your reply below) But I do think that despite given it’s own book, New York in particular has enough going on to deserve a mention (in my opinion). I did; however, go back and read through and rearranged the order of different spots on my own, it does offer more of a spread than I might’ve noticed at first glance.
Another thought I had was to give more detail to the Anarch Free State, I noticed a few minutes ago, I wasn’t the only poster to think it might feel a bit more generalized than some of the other write ups.
With only 250 words (approximately) each, these are going to have to be pretty general, especially when they cover material that previous whole books covered. It’s the limitation of the format, unfortunately.
Balance: I do think the balance between specific and generic (or easily-modified/-transplanted) locations is good. That said, the specific locations seem like they would be of limited utility in most games. How many chronicles are going to go to the Prime Chantry or to Alamut? The information on those locales can easily be repurposed and adapted, though, so I don’t see that as a downside; I just wonder whose chronicles actually go to those places.
Interest: These definitely spark interest. Seeing Dr. Netchurch pop back up has me thinking about a possible reworking of an NPC for my old group’s imminent reboot. Highgate has me inspired to identify a cemetery in Seattle to use in that chronicle. The locations overall definitely generate the right kinds of ambience – isolation, claustrophobia and buried horrors – to be inspirational to someone looking for a place or a story hook.
Distribution: There are actually several locations in North America but it kind of feels like the US gets ignored because none of them are NY or LA and Chicago is perpetually the city we forget we have. I think there is a broad representation of the Western world, yes, but I can see how Ajay would feel like the US’ representation is missing something.
My Chronicle: I’m definitely adapting Highgate to my Seattle setting. I am pondering having the local Tremere Regent be semi-obsessed with developing a Chantry that is magically mobile in the style of Vienna just to try to curry favor. I’m stealing the squatting-in-unleased-strip-mall-space idea for at least one vampire’s haven. To be honest, I’m not using any of these as a whole; I’m stripping them for parts and integrating them into my existing setting as they complement one another.
Perfect! Part them out or use them whole — they’re versatile like that.
I tried to avoid “easy” places like NY, LA, etc. because in many cases, they’ve had their own books. I could have easily done the whole chapter as “stuff that already exists that you want to see again,” especially given the feedback to date, but I also saw a lot in the feedback that wanted to know more about place that had been hinted or alluded to but not covered directly. So it’s about finding that good mix.
An important lesson – never diablerize torpid vampires you find lying in sites of historical interest.
Seriously, that first entry is my favourite for its “what’s this about?” hook potential.
The roving Succubus Club is an interesting notion, but always makes me wonder what’s happening in Chicago now, what took its place. (I came up with an idea that it became commodified like CBGB, so there’s a new Succubus in Chicago which is a pale imitation of the original.)
You’d be surprised by how much of a human presence one can find in the Paris Catacombs. “Cataphiles” (the people who like to go down there) form a very peculiar community too. Having been down there a dozen times myself with different groups, I’ve made acquaintance with people who’ll do weird track running sessions in low ceiling, narrow, unlit corridors; art student who like to redecorate old abandoned rooms (there’s a surreal series of rooms down there which, when I went, closed down with a big Grandizer fresco); they even found a working cinema down there some years ago (hell, I snatched that to posit the existence of a Nosferatu Salon there for my games).
Thanks Google: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/08/filmnews.france
Like the seeds. Good to see Norway in there. I always found the Northern European countries to be slightly underrepresented (though it might just be a factually wrong impression).
Oh, and I forgot: I grinned like a kid a the New Orleans one. Well played.
Just WOW! Love the treatment you gave to the “Abbey of the Sacred Crown”, “the Cathedral of flesh” and “Kaymakli”, my friends which played the Transylvania Chronicles will love it when this comes out in our new V20 chronicle.
“Lodin’s Boardroom” was my favorite. The options for new chronicles after the Lupine attack. Maybe a new Chicago book for V20 could come in handy, inspired on the last chronicle “Dust to Dust”.
As Mexican, “Palacio de Lecumberri” was a great option and it sounds great, thank you so much! I liked so much the idea of corrupted elders in the Sabbat as a great hook for a young coterie in the city.
Just a final question: Could “The Pyre of Moloch” have something to do with the unreleased “Brujah Chronicles” book? IMHO it could be a great hook for a generational chronicle.
Good to see that the new stuff sparked some ideas. I mention above the limitations of the 250-word capsules, but positive results like this are the benefit. They’re intended to be launch points.
I did the Pyre of Moloch without referencing older material, with the exception of some of the material in WoD 1e. It’s not drawn from the Brujah Chronicles, but I agree that it could be a good starting point for a generational chronicle.
Nice to see the Anarch Free States receive attention! Though, it is perhaps somewhat more general in tone than the other entries. Maybe the story hook concerning an Anarch resurgence in the region could find itself anchored in a more specific locale?
I remember Los Angeles by Night had one Barony, in particular – overrun by a Sabbat pack – that instantly identified itself as an entry point for Anarch player characters (i.e. get rid of the Sabbat, earn respect from fellow Anarchs, and establish said characters in the warring ways of Baronial politics).
Maybe something equivalent could be added or mixed into the present write-up?
I’ll see if I can flavor it a bit more. Again, 250 words doesn’t allow room for much on a subject as broad as the Anarch Free State.
WOW!!! This is utterly amazing!! They nice balance of old, ancient sites with modern ones is awesome. Seeing several important, and infamous sites given some love is very cool.
I can easily see the complaint of “America” not getting any attention, but with Grand Masq, AFS, Lodin’s Boardroom, and the Succubus Club that’s four right there.
However, if its possible to add a lone additional entry without gutting any others(You did say the chapter on physical modifications might get cut), I think it would be nice to see one famous American location, but personally, I don’t think its absolutely necessary.
The Pyre of Moloch will definitely be getting some use in my current game, as the Baali and Infernalists are the main antagonists. So thank you for giving me something to use.
I can not wait for this book to come out, though of course these little snippets have me wanting much more.
Perhaps keep everything as stated for the Anarch Free States (which is, as with everything else, beautifully written) but focus in on a particular site of Anarch resurgence – the main story hook. That is, where are the Anarchs making a comeback? Where are they forming their offensive – however fractious this might be – or, at the very least, where are they making themselves heard the loudest? Where is the most unstable domain through which the Anarchs might once again storm the gates and push back against the all-encompassing hegemony of the Sabbat, Camarilla and Kuei-Jin?
Loved the reference to Constantinople, my favorite Dark Ages setting, 🙂
The proportion of general and specific locations seems all right and all of them have nice story hooks in them that just beg to expand into its own story. I’ll definitely give it a read when starting a new chronicle.
Would love to see more south european locations but I’m a bit biased being Portuguese and all. 🙂
I personally would like to see a write up of the Black Monastery from the Giovanni Chronicles for the Sabbat of the modern nights. As the birth place of the Sabbat Paths of Enlightenment, one would think it would be a rather holy trip for sabbat too take.
That’s right, the Black Monastery, maybe it has become something different on modern nights or some kind of temple for the philosophers within the Sword of Caine.
Fantastic. I think it has an excellent “Global” feel, and is a nice method of spotlighting different NPC’s we’ve come to love over the years (Dr. Netchurch is a particular favorite of mine).
I would second the earlier comment about feeling that New York is missing… it was such a massive part of the Revised setting, politically and eschatologically, that the absence seems somewhat pronounced. And while my first impulse was to suggest a write up of the tunnels under Grand Central Station (Calebros’ court/The unholy “presence” under the city), I’ve always thought it odd that no WoD book dealt with the Temple of Dendur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Dendur). I’ve used it as an Elysium/long running mystery in games and it makes for a pretty evocative setting.
I agree with what Eme² have said. And i’ll just add this :
Only 2kms of galleries are opened to the public, and there are almost 300 kms of them under Paris who are visited only by Cataphiles and city employees… and maybe something else!^^
Of course, walking in those parts of the “catacombs” is forbidden and there is often a hide an seek game between policemen an cataphiles. The first ones are closing the entrances as the seconds open new ones.
What i want to say, is that the catacombs are really more wide, secret, dark and mysterious in real, than it appears in your doc! (i can tell that i went down myself with cataphiles, it’s quite an adventure, and you never forget!)
You talked also of a recent closure… they opened anew in 2008! 🙂
Hope my 2 cents will help!
I had read about a vandalism episode in 2009 that briefly closed the catacombs. That’s a great detail to know, however, about the very small percentage of the catacombs that are actually open to the public. I’ll try to get that detail included, so there’s an indication for just how much room the Kindred have to do their thing away from mortal eyes.
Liked most of location, probably the best is Utgård, really intriguing…
then…
1. Is the balance right between general and specific locations?
2. Do these spark enough interest to be useful for a whole story or interesting setting?
on average, yes, are balanced and can hint a lot of stories
though some descriptions of specific locations are somewhat general, like the New Orleans Hotels or the Tomb of the Patriarch, just to name a few
3. Is the geographical distribution good enough so that we feel like we’re dealing with a (Western) World of Darkness?
on overall, yes…
by the way, this is my condensed view
Africa (Northern): 1
Europe (Central): 2
Europe (Eastern): 1-2
Europe (Northern & Great Britain): 3
Near&Middle East 2-3
America (Northern): 5
America (Central): 1
America (Southern): 1
Unknown: 1
even though Europe got 6(7)/18 locations, I though you’re missing something from the Southern Europe
Spain, Italy, Greece, southern Balkans… they got a lot of interesting place
even Malta (where should be a great occult library managed by an old Ventrue, maybe a methuselah, referenced in some Dark Age book, probably Libellus Sanguinis or CB Salubri).
The southern european location is Vienna (excepting the Moloch’s Pyre, that isn’t really ‘european’ but can do the job), and it’s somewhat strange, given the fact that Southern Europe is where appened most of the Kindred history until the great Anarch Revolt
4. What are you doing with these in your chronicles?
Most of them can be the setting for an independent chronicle, but personally I’ll probably add some of them as background in my already-set story or use some other for a side-story (namely, Dr. Netchurch’s Laboratory, Monteleone / Roosevelt Hotel, Succubus Club, Lodin’s Boardroom and the Catacombes de Paris as backgrounds, Cathedral of Flesh [maybe more Cathedrals], Hunedoara Castle, the Prime Chantry, Kaymakli, the Highgate Cemetery, the The Anarch Free State, the Pyre of Moloch and, maybe, Utgård as side-story)
You forgot the Caribbean we too exist you know, for example:
El Morro San Juan,
Puerto Rico 3.8. Million Inhabitants
Colony of Spain till 1898 United States Territory from that day on. Pirates, Rum, defenitly Sabbat or Indepent
Hi!
I’m very sorry I have not had the time to keep an eye on the open development process. As I believe it’s a great way to write a better book.
Regarding the locations, I like the fact of few paragraphs to depict classical WOD locations. I must say I have enjoyed the mention to New Orleans and these recent vampire gatherings at two hotels.
Highgate Cemetery is amazing in real life. I would suggest you mention somewhere in the paragraphs some of the locations within the cemetery: the Lebanon Circle ( which is shown in one of the Hammer Dracula movies) could be the place where social gatherings are held, the Egyptian Avenue could be told to have buried the coffins of Elders, and so on. I believe this enhance more the imagination rather than having the cemetery as a social venue for all kind of WOD creatures, but for ghosts and vampires.
Kaymakli is another of my favourite locations in WOD ever.
I have missed mediterranean locations: the Mausoleum Giovanni in Venice or some other loggia in Florence, Pisa or Rome for the Giovanni fan’s solace, an explanation of a Lasombra/Sabbat classical location in Spain: the Monastry of El Escorial in the region of Spain could represent a great location, the Alcazar of Toledo, the Royal Palace and surroundings in Madrid, et cetera.
I am going to stop now or I will probably flood you with
Information, but generally I agree with the locations and would add a couple more.
I definitely need to get an Italian location placed. The players have spoken!
To be totally honest, I’m not thrilled with the inclusion of the Grand Masquerade; it strikes me as a tad too self-referential, like Black Dog Game Factory got at times in WW.
On the other hand, it’s a good gaming vehicle for Camarilla vampires to associate with Sabbat ones, and for people to hobknob with the luminaries of the setting. Maybe stress that it’s a younger, more recent phenomenon, and that it appeals to neonates regardless of sect…?
“clashing peccadilloes” is kind of a wordy but weak phrase. You mean to tell me that the ancient Inconnu, while pursuing Golconda, regularly argue about wearing white after labor day or who gets to make the centerpiece for thanksgiving dinner?
So the Tremere Chantry is basically the dorm at Hogwarts School, with the shifting rooms and staircases? I thought you might move away from the Harry Potter Vampire stereotype.
Hey Adam, you do realize VtM did that long before Harry Potter came out right?? There’s Thaumaturgy powers from long ago that basically allow what Justin is talking about.
OMG thank you for telling me that VTM came out before Harry Potter. Sometimes I think that 1991 came after 1997 because I get dates backwards. While making rooms move around may have been possible with Thaumaturgy (I can’t think of which book published before 1997 that had those powers was, but I’ll take your word for it), it’s a staple of the Harry Potter story and features prominently in the 1997 book and 1999 movie and will remind players of those. Nevertheless, THIS book, VTM companion, will be publishd around 2012, which is 15 years after Harry Potter. The point of my comment was to criticize that a chantry with rooms moving all over town isn’t that good of an idea. I mean think about it from a storyteller’s point of view in actual gameplay.
Player 1: “We go to the Stupenficus Librarium on the west side of town to meet that naughty librarian again”
ST: “It isn’t there anymore… Player 2, you’re a Tremere and you know it’s on the east side fo town”
PLayer 2 (Tremere): “That’s right Coterie, it’s on the East side of town now, it moved”
Player 1: “OK, we go East then. This is more annoying than the inane plot twists in Harry Potter.”
ST: “OK”
See? Not much of a story hook.
Descriptions I loved: Succubus club, Abbey of Thorns, because of the great story hooks.
Kaymaki, because it ties together disparate elements of the metaplot in a new way.
The best example of fusing the real geography with Kindred involvement (instead of just having a neato tourist attraction with a bunch of vampires hanging around doing something) is the Mexican prison. But what information does the Sabbat use from the national archives? What do they care about dusty microfiches of mortal Mexican history? Maybe instead, the Sabbat never shut down their herd, but instead tunneled dungeons underground for centuries and moved the herd under the archives.
Pyre of Moloch: nice to see the Baali story fleshed out (pun intended)
Alamut: I like how you put some mystery back into the clan. The conflict between Ur Shulgi and his bros is only one possibility among those given. Nice.
Utgard: neat idea, but bring the number of mortals to 3000 or more. With only 300 for 45 vampires, the math just doesn’t work. That’s about 6 mortals per vampire. A vampire needs 7 blood per week to survive without any disciplines (Gangrel are gluttons at 14 per week using Earth Meld*). Assume that some of them are children or elderly who’d die after being fed from once or twice. Mortals can’t heal the lethal wounds from the feeding that fast.
*Earth Meld should have been changed to not require a point of blood if you’re using it to sleep the day. Gangrel become the most gluttonous clan. They have to feed on animals sometimes which are already less nourishing. For the clan with the hardest time dealing with mortals and no permanent homes, how do they maintain the herds and seduce enough people at bars to keep themselves fed? Are they constantly out murdering people? If so, they find it harder to interact with mortals as their humanity drops, and its a vicious cycle. It just doesn’t work…
“You mean to tell me that the ancient Inconnu, while pursuing Golconda, regularly argue about wearing white after labor day or who gets to make the centerpiece for thanksgiving dinner?”
Did you read Lair of the Hidden? 🙂
Ah, I just flipped through the book and read the “Familiarity and Contempt” section. I see what you mean. It’s basically a 1000 year long season of Big Brother. oooh the horror…
Since you gave lip service to the Chantry in Vienna and the the Alamut…
Are you going to talk about the Giovanni Mausoleum in Venice, or some of the Setite Temples in Egypt, and my personal fav… the now abandoned Castle of Shadows in Sicily?
The balance right now is a mix of known places with a little updating and new places that offer an opportunity for what I’ve been calling “chronicle tourism.” I’ve got word count for only 20 locations, and I didn’t want to pin them all on clan centers. This is a good chapter to show that the wonder and horror of the dark corners of the WoD still exist (and multiply), and relying on “known” locales undermines some of the value of the unknown to the horror genre.
That said, there’s been enough interest expressed in an Italian location that I’m working one in there for the revisions.
The Hotel Monteleone entry is cute for convention purposes but terrible for in-game logic towards masquerade and sect security. It makes literally no sense in terms of practicality or genre in terms of how it has been presented so far… I feel like its something that does not have a place IC and that the IC-OOC line would be best left unblurred here.
I’m not gonna write a thesis about what to include. But I personally would like to see these cities:
Europe:
Vienna, Venezia, Madrid, Rome, Paris, Budapest, Moscow, Prague,
North America:
Miami, Detroit, Las Vegas, Baltimore, Salt Lake City,
Middle & South America
Botoga, Barranquilla, Havana, Port-au-Prince, Rio
Africa:
Cape Town, Mombasa, Marrakesh, Tripoli,
Asia:
Seoul, Calcutta, Karachi, Baghdad, Tehran, Singapore,
Oceania:
Sydney
Loved the Pyre of Moloch and the Utgard. Utgard sounds incredibly creepy, but in the best possible way. I wonder if I could do something like that in the rainforest as well.
Great practical comment — I’m glad to hear that you liked Utgard, and the idea to adapt the idea to a rainforest setting is awesome Storyteller synthesis!
All very interesting. Utgård made me think of Karl the Blue’s Free State. Your other locations are either Secret Headquarters (TM) or human-“owned” sites that vampires use parasitically, so they don’t beg the question “how did this state of affairs come to be?”. Utgård does. The sentence, “Those who make their havens there believe that Ragnarök has come and gone” needs a slight rewording; the thralls believe that, their vampire masters don’t, or the vampires wouldn’t be worried about their thralls escaping and spreading tales. It’s a great idea that needs some further back story to work. For instance, maybe it started as a genuinely idealistic attempt to preserve Norse culture against Christianity, sponsored by followers of the Road of the Aesiergard – not “nice”, but – by their own lights – pious, and genuinely concerned to defend their herds against supernatural evil. Centuries of isolation and moral degeneration robbed the vampires of their faith and turned their religion into a sham whose sole purpose is to keep the undead “Chosen of Odin” in power. (They can’t rule solely through terror; the midnight sun must force them to sleep for months at a time. Religious fanaticism combined with a survivalist mentality would keep the herd in line in their “absence”. There are plenty of real-world examples of that mindset, not least in the US)
I noticed a lack of underground rail networks. In London, there are plenty of disused tunnels and stations, plus abandoned air raid shelters dating back to the Blitz – and that’s before the Nosferatu got started. The proximity of all those hidden nooks and crannies to a huge number of commuters has to be a draw to the Kindred.
A survivalist mentality would also work, with modifications, in the Amazon rainforest, given the rate that Western companies are chopping it down. In fact, it would work better than in Utgård, since the Amazon vampires might genuinely be protecting their herds and their culture against an external threat. A scenario where a Gangrel elder stopped a Pentex logging operation from destroying his tribe’s home (and knowing Pentex, quite possibly the tribe itself), would have an interesting note of moral ambiguity. Who are the bad guys? How much personal freedom are the tribe willing to sacrifice to preserve their culture? Or their lives?
Can’t help but wonder, did you drop the idea of Kaymakli being ‘closed’ by the Antediluvian? I mean, leaving out the Feast of Folly isn’t something that really ruins the whole location for me, just so you know. In fact, I like the idea that the event is either completely forgotten in the modern nights or only told as an apocryphal ‘fairy tale’ by a few Kindred…
That said, I really like the treatment of both Kaymakli and Alamut, being somehow BOTH real world places and places of unknown, un-dead history. I’d already described the vampire Kaymakli in my chronicle as being under and alongside the mortal tourist destination. I’m glad to see Alamut received a similar treatment.
…As for the Pyre of Moloch? Ick! And I mean that as the highest form of praise.
These locations are wonderful because elements of them can be moved, or changed to fit into my chronicle as I need. That’s a fun aspect to see in Vampire: the Masquerade, a more tool-box based approach. Given a modicum of creativity, any Storyteller could use these locations as springboards for creating new places for his or her own world. I wonder if the chapter wouldn’t benefit from a sentence to that effect in the introductory paragraph?
http://whitewolfblogs.com/v20companion/archives/open-dev-v20-companion-locations
The nods to the various highlights of medieval fame are fantastic and enough to wet my appetite for a new Chronicle. The Abbey of the Sacred Crown (TC), the Paris Ossuary and Highgate Cemetery (Dracula) are especially interesting this way to me, since they appeal to my taste for iconic locations and offer plenty of hooks for inclusion in any story.
Dr. netchurch’s lab may not be such an iconic place, but it’s description causes several plothooks to emerge while reading.
What I don’t understand is what the Clan-related landmarks are doing in this list. Alamut, the High Chantry make for great reading, but as an ST I can not see myself using these locations in a game, since their Clan-HQ statusses make it impossible to frivolously throw them around in a chronicle. Except for Tremere or Assamite-only stories I suppose.
Perhaps this can be corrected by including more obvious storyhooks? For instance: a turncoat Tremere sells entry to the HC via a small side entrance. Maybe they need to retrieve some stolen items or have heard rumors of magical powers ready for the taking. Can the cotery trust the Tremere? Is the information still current (enough)? What awaits the characters at the other side of the tunnel? Such an idea can be used for Alamut as well.
Final remark, I had a feeling that not all the locations were granted the same amount of attention/detail. Lodin’s Boardroom includes not only a description, but even some history and includes relics to be found, while Kaymakli is kept vague to the extreme. This may be intentional, but doesn’t really feel right.
Oh, and the Grand Masq ref? Terrible idea. Way too ‘touch yourself in funny places’ IMO.
Whoops, sorry about including the url… I was working from a notepad file 🙂
The Grand Masquerade seems to be a contentious entry. Some players love it. Some find it too in-jokey and self-referential. I’ll keep an eye on it.
Count me amoung those who is against includion of the Grand Masquerade.
Out with the Clan centered entries and Grand Masquerade.
Please give some more space to European locations.
I’d like to stress the fact that, in the previous three editions, Europe, even if filled with several fundamental landmarks in vampires society, was left with little to none coverage in manuals.
This goes beyond the strong focus of City Books on US cities, also in non specific handbooks, the reference to european cities were extremely shallow and often happened to be in open contradiction.
Even if I’m sure that you will remember better than me, the most significant landmarks, I will anyway indicate a short list of european landmarks/cities with scarce coverage. Feel free to add any other location i may have forgotten.
Milan, Italy (possibly define better the whole Giangaleazzo treason and give some matherial concerning some significant Sabbat cathedral, the options don’t lack)
Venice, Italy (a possible insight on the Conclave would not be bad at all, also a detail on Giovanni Headquarters)
Rome, Naples, Italy (several mentions in historical handbooks but unfortunately with scarce coherence, countless possible locations of interest)
Paris, France (again some insight concerning Villon and the Louvre, mentioned as a possible Elysium in several occasion, may cover some severe lack)
Wien (Ofc the Chantry, but I’m sure you will adress that)
London (Ofc good coverage for Victorian Age, but scarce in the modern age)
Again anything else comes to your minds please fill free to add.
I have to agree with the comments above that the Grand Masquerade feels self-referential and more than a little masturbatory. Not only that, but to me it also brings back memories of those tonedeaf “Elysium++” hangouts you’d see back in the VtM 2e era, where all of the vampires of all the clans and sects peacefully got together in one place (and probably invited their non-vampire supernatural buddies along for the ride).
Utgard is a really interesting setup, but the location begs the question: how do its undead tyrants maintain their rule during the Scandinavian summers, when the sun is down for only a few hours a night, if at all? Victorian Age: Vampire had a Scandinavian vampire court that was actually the opposite of Utgard: in order for the vampires to guarantee their own safety during the long summer months, they had to grant their ghouls equal voices in the city’s primogen year-round.
Also, nitpick: the original Succubus Club opened its doors to Kindred and kine in 1982 according to the 1e Succubus Club sourcebook, though it wouldn’t be inaccurate to say that the club rose to prominence in the early ’90s.
How about Belgrade? It is one of the most important cities in the Balkans, with the most vibrant night life, bloody and turbulent history and a lot of unique and interesting locations.
I think that Serbia is unfairly underrepresented in Vampire, especially if you take into consideration that vampire craze of the 18th century started in Serbia and that the word “vampire” is Serbian in origin.
That is without even mentioning the Black Hand that figures prominently in the Sabbat. I am pretty certain that inspiration for the name came from Serbian anarchist/terrorist/patriot group (definition depends on who you ask).
Nothing on Enoch?
I would like to see more about the True Hand. I know most can be found in DSotBH but some updated material on them would be great.
@Christofer: Given that DSotBH has been declared “noncanonical” earlier (before V20), I think updates on Enoch highly unlikely. To the best of my knowledge “Enoch the Spirit City” was all but erased from the VtM canon.
Concerning the locations: I find all of them good. It’s a fine selection that def. covers all locations I still remember from way back 🙂
If I had to add something there, I of course would add something about Berlin, as this is a good spot to place hints to developments in surrounding areas, i.e. Germany and Eastern Europe.
Being a fan of the vastly more interesting character of Gustav Breidenstein, I of course would be all for “fudging him in again” (via the “nobody saw him die” route if need be) and removing that lame Waldburg from power 🙂
Actually, I take that notion back, as I just read the V20 Companion outline, stating “Steer clear of metaplot advances” 🙂
Well, looks like I’ll be the first to comment on the Catedral da Sé setting… I confess it surprised me. First, I’m from Brazil and when I read the entry’s title I was like ‘YES!’. I live one hour distance from São Paulo and the Catedral is really amazing. It fits a Sabbat stronghold nicely. And it’s not just a stronghold, it’s a political and religious center of the sect, which opens to a lot of different scenarios and chronicle possibilities.
I play Vampire since 1993 and I remember when SP was first mentioned in Cb:Lasombra as a field test for younger Keepers – and that was it. This is a great development. I also recognized a lot of classic locations from previous books – and I was glad to see São Paulo now featuring among them.
Keep on the good work, J.!
How about the Sabbat’s pinnacle of introspection, The Black Monastery, mentioned in the Giovanni Chronicles, where the Paths of Enlightenment were originally formulated? It’s pretty iconic imho
I must–must!–echo the above call for material on the ghost city of Enoch. One of my favorite things about V20 is the text’s attitude of “Not sure if you can use this, but check out this awesome and/or completely moon-bat crazy shit we found in an unattended corner of the game”. You guys very skillfully navigated a middle way of presenting the goofiest parts of the setting with nonjudgmental enthusiasm while still smoothing some of their rougher edges to fit the larger game’s context a bit better. The Tal’Mahe’Ra is pure, refined wahoo!, and were deftly incorporated into V20. Except for the Cathedral of Flesh, though, the Locations chapter lacks anything in the high-wahoo! end of the spectrum.
With the inclusion of “home bases” for the Anarchs, Inconnu, the (other) Black Hand, at least one independent clan, and important sites for the Camarilla and Sabbat, the absence of Enoch kind of disappointed me. Yeah, Kaymakli mentions the Tal’Mahe’Ra, but it’s totally not the same. And, while a minority of Vampire games will ever leave the material world, it’d be nice to have one location of interest for those that do.
If you have to cut one of the locations to include Enoch, I’d suggest Netchurch’s laboratory. Netchurch himself is the interesting part; the laboratory is neat as a reflection of the character, not as an inherently game-useful place. The Paris catacombs would be my second suggestion. You don’t gain much, game-wise, from their profile here that you wouldn’t get just from knowing that the catacombs exist in the real world. No point in using up your wordcount for something that won’t be more evocative, for Vampire, than something we can pull off of Wikipedia.
Another suggerences of places:
Catedral de las Tinieblas (The lair of Monçada) (Madrid, Spain)
The Mausoleum (Venice, Italia)
The Temple of Set in Uganda (Uganda)
The lair of Gorgo (in the mountains of Peru)
The Nightmare Mountain (The tomb of the Antediluvian Ravnos) (somewhere in India).
For new location, I stayed away from locations that never featured in the VtM until now. Locations like Luxemburg (old monestary on the hilltop with the tunnels under the entire city), Brussels (Europe’s seat of power), Moscow (the land of oppertunity due to the opening up of the internal markets) or Amsterdam (canals, islands, lax on drugs and prostitution) all have fantastic locations to use, but seem a bit too far out of touch with VtM to include now. I’ve also stayed away from the cities covered in the By Night books, with the exception of Berlin.
Having said that, I’d love to see these locations in the book…
– Boston harbor (Boston, US): THe Giovanni rule surpreme, the Cammy and Sabbath need it for their logistics. Enough said, I think. Perhaps the final Giovanni Chronicle chapter can be an inspiration here?
– Rayzeel’s haven (Qalat’at Sherqat, Iraq): The place where Beckett meets the last Salubri in the Gehenna novel. Locating her is a quest all on it’s own, with plenty of great rewards if she is found. Also, including this location gives a great nod to the previous run of VtM. Besides, a non-Assamite location in the middel-east is kinda overdue. 🙂
– the Monestary of St. Timothy (near Venice IIRC?): When Augustus diablerised Cappadocius, Lamia died protecting her master. Where Cappadocius’spirit moved on, Lamia’s lingered, unable to leave the location where she failed her master in his greatest moment of need. THe characters can release her with the knowledge that Cappadocius in fact orchestrated the event himself (elder game, high on occult knowledge) or travel there to find some relics left behind (and guarded by Lamia).
Oh, and cut Alamut and the Vienna Chantry… Too restrictive in their use for such a prominent place, IMHO.
I was re-reading my old first edition World of Darkness book last night. How about a mention of the Vampire Club in San Francisco? It’s a wonderfully atmospheric setting for politicking and social backbiting.
I like the Dr. Netchurch entry. I would like to see a new New England entry though. Dark Colony definitely was lacking.
I have talked about this with another ST recently.
What we always missed in the WW books is info on Europe.
Many books talk about the good old ‘old world’ as this is utopia of steady political plotting and where kindred live to the letter of the Camarilla.
However… there is little to no info on domains in Europe (besides Berlin).
I would spend money on a book about a short overview on europe, passing countries and domains in this continent.
Is the whole of Spain Sabbat and sabbat only ? What kind of domain would you call Venice… is Vienna Tremere only ? Where do Hardestadt and Pieterszoon hail from.
I was always very curious how the people who designed the WOD look to my country.
This book could be a joined venture… ST’s from their country talk and discuss about their country, their strong points and where kindred could have weaved in.
Needless to say my homeland (and that of Pieterszoon), the Netherlands is a lot more then just windmills and cheese and tulips (although cheese is the devil, ITS THE DEVIL I tell ya !).
I like this chapter but I would like to see a whole book about it… not just a chapter 🙂
Hardestadt was originally from what’s now Germany, I think – what the Cainites called the Fiefs of the Black Cross in the thirteenth century.
It sounds like you’re talking about a modern-day version of the (excellent) Dark Ages: Europe book. I’d love to see that, but I think it’s far too large a topic for the Companion. It’d need to be a separate book.
I wonder if they’ll publish some supplementary PnP material that links in the the MMO? It was fun to see some of the Transylvania By Night characters in the Redemption computer game. Maybe that’s our best chance for seeing books like this.
I they ever do a V20 writeup for the UK, I hope they involve Wood Ingham. He’s done some superb UK material for nWoD. I’d love to see him turned loose on cWoD as well.
The Pyre of Moloch is disturbing and chilling. Perfect for a vampire story even better for a mortal chronicle or prelude to a chronicle.
Thanks for another wonderful article. Where else may just anyone get that kind of information in such a perfect approach of writing? I’ve a presentation next week, and I am at the search for such information.
About the locations content:
The Abbey of the Sacred Crown
There could be hints about the nature of the attack on the city or the vampires.
The Cathedral of Flesh
The cathedral may contains the antediluvian, or protect the world from it, or do you believe Tz needs any protection?
Hunedoara Castle
On second paragraph: it should be: “arise from denying it” not “arise from deny it”
Catedral da Sé
On 1st paragraph it’s written See, it’s Sé.
Many location descriptions could benefit from hooks like the one in the Catacombs of Paris.
Útgard
Numerical relations should be avoided or only hinted at, like in: ” a few dozen kindred to a few hundred mortals”.
The mortals are led to believe Ragnarock has come and gone, not the kindred, otherwise they would not fear the thralls would find anything outside.
It astonishes me the use of the term modern to refer to these poor thralls.
Hotels in New Orleans
The passage between parenthesis is better left out. It’s obvious, no need for it.
[improving an older post] A wider distribution on the level of power of the locations (from places populated almost only by neonates to places millennia aged kindred dread to tread) could work better, better still then just removing the Clan centers.
Best!
About the locations content:
The Abbey of the Sacred Crown
There could be hints about the nature of the attack on the city or the vampires.
The Cathedral of Flesh
The cathedral may contains the antediluvian, or protect the world from it, or do you believe Tz needs any protection?
Hunedoara Castle
On second paragraph: it should be: “arise from denying it” not “arise from deny it”
Catedral da Sé
On 1st paragraph it’s written See, it’s Sé.
Many location descriptions could benefit from hooks like the one in the Catacombs of Paris.
Útgard
Numerical relations should be avoided or only hinted at, like in: ” a few dozen kindred to a few hundred mortals”.
The mortals are led to believe Ragnarock has come and gone, not the kindred, otherwise they would not fear the thralls would find anything outside.
It astonishes me the use of the term modern to refer to these poor thralls.
Hotels in New Orleans
The passage between parenthesis is better left out. It’s obvious, no need for it.
[improving on an older post] A wider distribution on the level of power of the locations (from places populated almost only by neonates to places millennia aged kindred dread to tread) could work better, better still then just removing the Clan centers.
Best!
While I would like to see Sydney detailed, I would also like it to be written up by someone whose actually been there. or at least co-written. I’ve read so many cringingly bad stuff in RPG source books about Australia.
Also some stuff on Perth would be good to as its the only Anarch Free state still standing IIRC.