The Demon: The Descent Kickstarter to create a prestige edition of the book exploded out of the gate and was funded in 3.5 hours! Congrats to Black Hat Matt McFarland and Rose Bailey now that their evil baby is going to be all fancied up. The project already has more than 1000 backers and has passed three stretch Goals already: a silk bookmark for the edition, an 80 page Seattle Sourcebook PDF, and the first in what we hope are a series of “Demon Seeds” ala the stories in GMC that provide players with scenarios in settings around the world that they can use in their games.
I have a little room here to go into this, as Eddy is house-sitting today sans WiFi so we didn’t meet, so let’s talk about Kickstarter. In past weeks, I’ve explained a lot about how KS is a great addition to our Onyx Path Publishing business model, so I won’t go into that today. We always say that we’re learning from each and experimenting with each KS- so here’s some of the changes we’re trying:
1- Estimating the delivery date on these has been like trying to sign Jello. If it wasn’t a slow down internally with sections getting redone or taking a lot longer to produce, it was the printer going through their own conniptions and learning curves. W20 has been just over a year in the process of getting to the shipper. Mummy also took something like 9 months, and Hunters Hunted 2 has gone 7 months past estimated date. I thought we were a lot closer to the ballpark with Exalted 3rd, and then we made some quality control decisions, and had some team illnesses, and we slid past the extended estimate. W20: Changing Breeds is a lot closer to the even more extended estimate and the PDF did get out to backers as estimated, but the intense amount of extra material added to the book pushed us further than we wanted even with Stew Wilson and team kicking butt to incorporate all the changes. How close to delivering the Deluxe version to the estimate is a guess right now- closer than ever before, I’ll say that. So for Demon, I really pushed our estimate further out than I could reasonably expect us to need. No more reasonableness! Internally, we delayed the KS until the book was in final layout stages so that we would have the best chance to be able to deliver the PDF (which needs to exist before both the PoD and traditionally print files are made) very close to the end of the KS campaign (a lot closer than the KS estimate). And we’re limiting the Stretch Goal internal additions to the book to, uh, none. We’ll see if that changes the interest level of backers to push for more and more Stretch Goals.
2- One of the reasons we have to dance around putting together and running KSs through the year is that they are set up by Kickstarter to only be run by the Project Creator, which has had to be me every damn time. And I say that not because I’m pissed off about being able to have these awesome explosions of KS fun every couple of months, but because I’ve become the bottleneck for us doing a KS campaign or not. Kickstarters are exhausting. There’s literally no way to describe the sheer marathon-race quality of running one. Must make it…to the…finish! Musn’t…black…out! And for an introvert like myself, the sheer “always on” exposure combined with the, shall we say, aggressive postings of complaint, really wiped me out psychologically and emotionally as well and it has taken weeks to stop twitching at every email notification. What I’m saying is- it’s rough to do them over and over. So, with Demon‘s KS, we’ve figured out a way that Rose can take more of the guiding hand, even though I still set the whole thing up, and I can pop in and help and answer a share of the questions and concerns, but not carry all the weight.
3- With a fair number of our classic WoD 20th Anniversary Edition projects, you can make a pretty good guess at the content of the book, and the KS info really just has to tease that more to legitimately provide enough info for backers to get excited about pledging. But with new games like Demon: The Descent, some folks really need to get a strong idea of just what the game is about before they dive in and pledge. Which leads us to linking the whole unedited text for everyone to feel free to download and read through. We think that the number of people impressed by the material and who’ll pledge for the Prestige Edition will more than make up for the folks who are turned off, or who are fine with just the text and start playing. It’s a risk, this is the biggest, most important book- a whole new game line’s core book- that we’ve ever done this with. But, I’m pretty sure folks will appreciate what we’re trying to do with this, and will pledge accordingly. And if not, we’ll learn from that too.
Hopefully, these lessons learned and our resulting evolution in how we do KSs will make the whole KS experience something that everybody will have even more fun with- we have even further tweaks and changes to what we can accomplish with them in the year to come!
But Before That, These:
– Blood and Smoke: The Strix Chronicle (VtR) Deep in Layout. Here’s a visual teaser though: https://theonyxpath.com/mirthful-mikes-old-time-art-blog-blood-smoke/
– Mummy the Curse – The MtC Ready Made Characters Pack PDF has been sent out to backers- we’re gathering comments on the PDF- like all Onyx Path backer rewards from Stretch Goals, this will later be available in PDF and PoD formats on DTRPG. Cursed Necropolis DC is being finished up by the writers.
– Exalted 3rd Edition: While John hunkers down to rewrite the Charms chapter he is also changing some of the ways he’s been doing these to enable more to get finished, the rest of the team is working on a couple of EX3 chapters that continue to be finalized for Editing: Resistance is down and the Devs are ready to do some playtests with some groups they have gotten to know these past couple of years. And then after that fine-tuning they’d like to go with a wider group of external playtesters. Both EX3 novels as well as Zub’s EX3 Comic are in progress, Zub’s script is done and cover elements are up for review, and the EX3 Music Suites are being scoped out- the music team is thinking of putting up their own video diaries documenting the creation of the EX3 Suites. Links when I have them.
– V20 Hunters Hunted 2: Trucking to the three different shippers it is going out to backers from with W20. HH2 Fiction Anthology text is in editing-might be done there at the end of the week.
– V20 Anarchs Unbound is in layout and we are still putting the pieces together for its KS, but that’s been delayed until after the Demon KS (see above).
– Deluxe Werewolf 20th Anniversary Edition: On trucks off to the three different shippers handling getting the books to backers. The Heavy Metal Deluxe W20 prototype was approved and they are slowly assembling and binding the books by hand. Mike Lee is submitting chapters of the W20 “Houses of the Moon” novel to Bill for dev review. Bill has the W20 Anthology stories in layout. Jess Hartley has submitted the White Howlers Tribe Book to Stew Wilson for development notes, and the W20 Cookbook is in layout.
– Deluxe Mage the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition has Phil is wrapping up the last sections of the book. Reviewing full pages in b&w first from Mike Kaluta. Check out our continuing M20 art blog by Mirthful Mike Chaney: https://theonyxpath.com/mirthful-mikes-art-blog-mage-20th-anniversary-preview-3/
– W20 Changing Breeds Backer PDF changes being input this week as Stew compiled them and annotated the PDF over the weekend. Go, Stew! The Changing Breeds Fiction Anthology is being contracted by developer Jess Hartley.
– W20 Rage Across the World: In layout. The PDF will go to Deluxe W20 backers first as an appreciative gift for their patience, and then up on DTRPG.
– Guildhalls of the Deathless (MtC) the PDF is live on DTRPG. The PoD proofs are still on their way to me…maybe this week.
– Conventionbook: Void Engineers (cMtA) has been revised based on the fan submitted errata. In approval for PoD version.
– W20 Book of the Wyrm is being art directed and is layout. Three names: Spencer, Ellis, Rebner.
– V20 Rites of the Blood: is in editing, art finals rolling in.
– Under the Darkening Sky (classic Dark Ages): In editing. Art coming in.
– Trinity Continuum: We now have a whopping big Aeon outline and a Trinity Continuum Core Book outline and writers are writing. Systems discussions with the Scion devs have been loud and impassioned. There is now a spirit of cooperation and common ground moving towards system ideas being hammered out. John Snead, Aeon developer and writer has already started sending material to Ian for review.
– Scion: Coming back around on the system discussions this week.
– Demon: The Descent: Submitted to CCP for approval as well as getting the files to an indexing expert. Demon Quickstart PDF is free on DTRPG and the PoD version is Now LIVE. The Demon: the Descent Kickstarter campaign has done great! (See above)!
– Hunter: Mortal Remains: Two chapters are in editing already and we have a new title.
– Book of the Deceived (MtC): First drafts are coming in to CAS, who is red-lining away. Red-lining is the stage where the developer makes notes in the writer’s text for changes (called red lining because a red pen was used originally to mark up the paper manuscripts).
– nWoD: Dark Eras: Writers are writing.
– V20 Dark Ages: Scribes are scribing. Check out the discussion on the WW Forums and these very blogs. Talking to a pretty famous artist about this project- only talking yet, though.
– DtD Players Guide: Flowers Of Hell?: Being written in a stretch limo as it slowly prowls the streets of Moscow.
– V20: Ghouls: Mind map created at LA by Night being transformed into a full-fledged project outline.
Reason to Drink: Another fully funded Kickstarter project with Demon: The Descent!
Comments
60 responses to “Putting the Fun into Funding”
Honestly at this point anyone in real life (or online) that asks when something is coming out my answer is “Sometime in the future maybe” and tell them to avoid paying any attention to the posted schedule. I’ve never actually seen it be right for any product I track.
When I ask other people (who follow OPP/White Wolf games) the majority seem to be of the offered opinion that it’s something to do with CCP driven update requirements. As in, in order to get approval for Project X you have to say it will be done in Y time even when that’s not possible, and that is the date you are required release.
So while I think things have been getting a bit better (this is from the context of a W20 backer mind you) I’d say there’s still progress that can be made.
Our Schedule and whether or not we list the dates as we do has almost nothing to do with CCP. We get approval for a year’s worth of projects- and they have no interest or concern sufficient to mandate when in that year we release them.
Correct — CCP doesn’t mandate any specific release date for any licensee.
At first I was skeptical about seeing the unedited text ready to view. What would be the point?
But like the QS I started reading it. And I feel that you guys really made the right choice this time. I’ve donated for 2 books, and am debating on adding on the storyteller’s screen. I feel almost possessed to run this game. I’ve already made planes to purchase at least one copy of the PoD. Because nothing beats the feel of a book in my hands, and it’s the easiest way for me to run a game. Further, due to how awesome this text is I know that I’ll be dishing out the funds to purchase future supplements. Which is something I haven’t done for sometime. If you were in doubt about allowing us to gander at the raw Demon text. Don’t be, it’s only heightened my zeal.
Thanks- almost everyone who has taken the time to write in about it has expressed similar sentiments. Glad having the text ahead of time has been good for you!
I commend you guys on taking the amazing risk of giving even a rough draft that was as thorough as what you provided for Demon. I was already sold on it, but reading it helped solidify that sell for me. It was a huge risk, but one I’m glad you took; I look forward to the glory of the finished work.
So far, we feel like its been a good thing. We’ll see how things look in the middle of December.
For those who miss adding on the ST screen: you’ll be kicking yourselves later.
Thanks!
I’m happy to hear Ex3 is going well.
And I’m sure I don’t want to know what the Demon’s Player’s Guide has to do with Moscow.
Or do you?
It’s actually in the redlining stage, which makes for a good, if dated, Moscow play on words.
You mean I’m wearing this fur hat and drinking vodka for nothing?
Wait, not nothing. Because it’s a day ending in a ‘y’.
Could this artist for v20 dark ages be Bolton? (fingers crossed)
Right now, all conversations have been very, very tentative…with whomever it is. Just don’t assume we’re going down any roads of copying the approach to V20: Dark Ages that we did with either of the classic DA cores, as its not a straight-up Anniversary Edition.
“…the, shall we say, aggressive postings of complaint…”
You, sir, are a master of euphemism.
I thank you like a… thanking guy.
Last year I didn’t care about the Mummy Kickstarter. Part of that was because I thought it was only about catering for the prestige physical edition, which was useless to me, and partly because I didn’t understand or care about Kickstarter in general. Through reading the weekly updates and other blogs, I have without realising before now come to understand enough that I am willing to consider contributing to your Kickstarter campaigns, if I like the gameline enough. I hope I can manage my end of year bills well enough to contribute to Demon, and I am very interested in everything to do with next year’s Dark Eras and hope to contribute to that, too.
Cool- yes, I’d say that the KS experience, on both sides of a campaign, continues to evolve. We’re very specifically watching not only our own KSs but other folks’ as well. So to go from a hit the funding goal and we make a Deluxe book, to adding in quite a range of Rewards, to adding in Stretch Goals, to letting those Stretch Goals now influence the shape and content of the book…it’s been quite a year and a half!
And yes, a lot of the more pledges can change this book possibilities are going to be far more explored in Dark Eras than we’ve been able to before.
Six days. That’s how long it’s taken for me to go from “I want to back this Kickstarter” to “If they are going to write authoritarian propaganda, can’t they at least make it interesting, like Mummy seems to be?” I wanted, and expected, Demon to be a book about fighting the conservative control system that the God-Machine is a symbol of. But it isn’t. Only the Saboteurs are interested in genuinely fighting the system. The book makes it very clear, with things such as the Y2K Angel, that the God-Machine has set things up so that major strikes against it will destroy (American) civilisation, and thus the whole Agenda is a futile effort.
I have read a lot of complaints that the purpose of the old World of Darkness’ meta-plot was to demonstrate the impotence of the player-characters, with everything decided before the PCs even appeared. In Fall of the Camarilla, the presence of the PCs was pretty much irrelevant. Reign of the Exarchs actively punished the PCs for getting involved. Now you have a whole gameline that seems to return to that. I’m no longer interested in buying it or supporting its Kickstarter. I don’t mind if you do horrible things to Vampires, but I hope you don’t make achievement beyond mages in Fallen World. (Werewolf the Forsaken I found so conservative and boring that I had already written off its revision.)
That’s…an interesting take on Demon, but one that I don’t really feel is supported by the material. I mean, sure, Y2K thinks that by playing his role as an angel, he prevented the fall of society. That’s one possibility. But it’s hardly the linchpin of the whole game, even if it is true, and if you don’t want that to be the case, that’s a pretty easy thing to ignore.
As far as fighting the system goes, the whole game is not, and never has been, about “fighting the system.” It’s about rebellion, sure, and it’s about finding one’s own place after that rebellion. For *some characters*, that’s about fighting the system. There’s a full Agenda explicitly devoted to fighting the system, and any of the others can be, as well, if that’s the way the characters lean.
I think that if you were running *Demon*, what you’d want to do is present the chronicle to your players in those terms: “I want to run a game about fighting the systems of conservative control that the God-Machine has set up. You don’t have to make Saboteur characters, but I would like all the characters to have a vested interest in shaking things up, fighting the power, or making meaningful change, which means making Integrator characters is more of a challenge.” That game would work just fine with the game as presented.
I think you’re reading a conservative agenda into the game, and into NWoD in general, that simply isn’t there.
“Internally, we delayed the KS until the book was in final layout stages so that we would have the best chance to be able to deliver the PDF (which needs to exist before both the PoD and traditionally print files are made) very close to the end of the KS campaign (a lot closer than the KS estimate).”
Thank you. This is the best change you could make to the process so that the releases sync up better. 🙂
Again, as I’ve stated before, I’m not that interested in implying a connection between the DTRPG releases and the delivery of a book reward from a KS. It’s far better for all of us involved, including the fans and backers, if those two moments of delivery aren’t connected in everyone’s minds.
As far as unedited text linking goes, I think that was a brilliant move and I hope it will be repeated in the future. The thing is, if someone doesn’t want to pay for digital goods, in this day and age, he really doesn’t have to. Anyone not paying for the book because of the unedited text that was linked, also wouldn’t pay because he could get the final PDF on some torrent or wherever. I don’t think you’re risking a loss by doing this.
Myself, I knew I was going for the book well in advance so the text is just a really neat thing to sift through before I get the actual PDF and book. But I imagine there is a non-trivial number of people who were uncertain but will pledge because of the unedited text. And even all that aside, I think posting the text is simply an incredible show of good faith towards the community.
Exactly. I feel like there will be pirates no matter what, and the speed with which the books hit the net is just crazy. I have no idea why anyone would make the effort to even post someone else’s files at this point. How much of a point of pride can it be? It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
So, for us, an accepted down side in that regard, with only possible good feedback and interest if we do it. But not having done it to this extent before, there are more tangential issues of long term effect on the game-line, or whether the KS will have a different velocity- which this one has- and is it because there’s no mystery to the content? No surprise cool rule you never thought of yourself when you open up the finished thing? These things are part of what gets folks fired up, and are we trading that away with this method?
I think there is something to be said for the lack of surprise. At the same time I don’t know if that lack of surprise is enough of an issue to NOT share the unedited text.
For example, I got fired up by Matt’s Demon Blog and the Playtest samples.. and to a lesser extent from forum discussions that he and Rose participated in. I have quickly traipsed through the unedited text but I haven’t really read it. I was already sold on the idea and I didn’t need any more information. I suppose I’m happy to wait for the PDF to be surprised and thrilled by the final product. (I’m a Kickstarter participant at the PDF level, but plan to bump up once I know how my cash flow is going to handle it).
On the other hand, if Matt had not previewed it as much as he had.. I would want some idea of what I was paying for. If the content was going to excite me. Without those previews I think the unedited text might have made the difference between whether I backed it or not.
Maybe there’s a happy medium on releasing text previews, like offering up a couple chapters on the setting, but holding back on the majority of the mechanics and powers?
Congrats Matt, Rose and Rich. Always nice to see Onyx Patch kickstarters do well and this is an interesting overview of how they have been going for you.
I’ve really been enjoying the way stretch goals have been adding extra content directly to the books. The enthusiasm that generated in the Hunters Hunted 2 and Changing Breeds kickstarters made me change from my original intention, of only backing at a PDF level, to getting the deluxe book but for a core book, I think you’ve made the right choice in no stretch goals adding directly and the Seattle sourcebook, seed collections and sample characters are all the type of things I’d get a lot of use out of for a new game.
Being an introvert as well, I can understand the psychologically and emotionally drain that would come from being on like that for so long. There is just no downtime while running a busy kickstarter. Kickstarter really need to add some project management options for multiple users working as a team. As a work around, I did notice Jess and Stew posting in the comments on Changing Breeds, which was a great extra interaction with the backers. Rose and Matt both being able to post updates on Demon is great extra step and hopefully helps take some of the pressure off.
I think you’ve made the right choice putting up the unedited text for Demon. If someone is going to use that to play without ever buying a PDF or book from you, they would likely have pirated it another way sooner or later and being able to look at it has changed me from having no interest to enjoying the possibilities in the setting and being very tempted to back.
Cheers Rich, the Monday meeting updates are always good to read.
Thanks for all your thoughts here. In terms of the text, I agree on the general idea that no matter what, folks will get it via piracy if that is what they want to do. The cool thing, at least in our business, is that most gamers don’t want pirated books. Whether because they want a physical book, or they know how tight things are in tabletop RPG gaming and want to help keep their favorite game lines alive, or just generally because they aren’t set up to get their fun that way.
With Stretch Goals in general, you do have to be careful in which ones you offer and how, but they can be so much fun and really do contribute to the sense that the KS itself is a bit of a party, or at least a gathering of like-minded folks. What we’ve found is that adding to and transforming the book can be great fun for the backers- particularly for supplement books- but that core books really flourish if we use the Stretch Goals to create aspects of the line that wouldn’t have happened otherwise. It’s a different sense of achievement for the backer community, but an equally positive one.
Yeah, I do like the synergistic effect of knowing that if the Kickstarter is really successful that there will be additional product support that goes beyond, “Well, let’s wait and see how the Core Book does first, shall we?”
Right- that is definitely one of the advantages to that form of Stretch Goal. For us, whether fiction or Ready Made Characters or other things yet to be revealed, it’s a chance to get those peripheral projects made that are really nice in adding additional depth to the game-line. Are the totally confirmed as necessary to the health of any given line- no, not at all. Which is why they aren’t usually included in the game-line roll-out. (I forced the fiction issue with GMC and Strix, because I really thought they needed easy ways to access the new ideas presented in those game books).
“Exalted 3rd edition …..we slid past the extended estimate.” There’s no way for this to not sound bitter, so I’m just gonna say it. Don’t think slid is a proper word for the missed estimate. The book will be finished when it’s finished, and the team is trying to organize the entire future line to try and maintain balance. It’s about 2 months past the Kickstarter date, charms are being rewritten, play-testing hasn’t started yet. I missed out on the Ex3 Kickstarter, but from what my play group has said not much has been shown of the corebook. I got into tabletop gaming because i overheard my group playing 1st edition while at college. They’ve all gone from bright eyed and bushy tailed about 3rd edition to just avoiding talking about it in any way like a taboo. December became june/july became october became when it’s finished, but hey, in the mean time, why not play these other games we have out(Not necessarily from staff/devs/writers but what I see lurking the forums). No offense to Vampire, Werewolf, God-machine, Demon or Mummy, but when i order scotch I don’t want wine,beer,vodka,absinthe or tequila. I apologize if this seems rude, angry, unwarranted, unfairly entitled. Because in the end I’m just a tired old tabletop gamer who’s going to buy, play and love Exalted 3rd but has just needed to rant since June.
Glad we could provide a place for you to unburden your psyche. I totally understand EX fans being frustrated by the time it has taken for the game-line to get restarted with EX3. We all are- but as part of the creative team, I at least have the satisfaction of knowing we’re delaying to make a better line. I try and at least keep you all informed as to the progress, if any, we make each week, which you’re clearly aware of. I don’t know if that helps you personally, though.
As to ordering scotch and wanting scotch, I certainly understand that impulse. And if you are solely an EX player and fan and are getting told to play these other games we are working on, I can see that frustration as well.
Thanks, I think a large part of my original frustration as well as my groups was that we thought of Exalted 3rd edition as an update. New mechanics, polishing some of the old but still workable pieces, and then just shipping it out. From how the devs have been mentioning their work on EX3, restart is the best word to describe the corebook process. Whenever I see a tweet about something working well for lunars or abyssals, I’m reminded the team is trying to build a structure for everything in the line. Which is a reason I’m excited about 3rd, won’t have some of the drastic power differences between exalts already published for a year and ones fresh off the press.
Yes- the way all the pieces connect, and need to connect, is a huge part of why the Devs have to tread carefully and take the right steps while developing EX3.
HH2 and W20 are still on the truck headed to the warehouse? It’s been over a week now. Where exactly is the warehouse?
There’s nothing that I can do at this point to change the speed or methods the shippers use. They have completed books, those books have to go through whatever shipper processes it takes to get them to you.
No worries. Thanks, Rich.
First of all, know that I appreciate all the work that goes into Kickstarters (unsure as to how MUCH work there is… so thanks for sharing!), and I have not been disappointed with any of the Onyx Path projects over there. Sure, some have taken longer than I’d have liked, but none were other than what you promised. The nay-sayers may appear to be a lot of us over there, but you know that you have way more support than derision, right?
As for stretch goals to add content, I really liked that option for The Hunters Hunted II and W20 Changing Breeds. I’d be sad if that option weren’t offered again, but I fully understand not wanting to do it for Demon: the Descent. A core rules book isn’t the same thing as a supplement, and Demon is already a huge beast of a book. Of course, you’ve no reason to do as I wish, but I’d ask that you not abandon completely the notion of Kickstarter campaign adding content to a book. Those additions made the difference between The Hunters Hunted II being a good book and it being a GREAT book… At least in my mind.
Regardless of what you do or don’t, keep up the good work! Some of us really love what all of you do, no matter how long it takes.
My thinking currently is that big core books are generally less about tweaking the interior content and more about extending cool extra projects we couldn’t do otherwise. And supplements like HH2 and W20: Changing Breeds really benefit from the opposite approach where most of the emphasis is on the evolution of the interior content based on backer feedback. So, since we will have supplements going into KS, that’s how I’d expect to handle them.
That being said, Dark Eras is specifically set up to turn that thinking on its ear and really stretch what we can do with a core book when we are set up for backer input that directly determines the content. Looking forward to that one!
Oh, that’s EXACTLY what I’d hoped you’d say, Rich. I really do mean it when I say you’re all doing excellent work!
…So, it looks like my streak of supporting every Onyx Path Kickstarter isn’t likely be broken any time soon. Dang? Well, that’s what my wallet and girlfriend say, but what do THEY know? 😛
When looking foreward to the M20 Ks, how will lessons from WW20 and D20 be applied? Will Onyx Path plan to make bonus material from kickstarter pledges into new books (ala D20 and alot easier), or part of THE book (ala W20 and alot harder)? My personal vote would be to put as much in the big book as you can, but that is just me.
M20is already 400 pages, not much more can be added.
… D20?
M20 is going to be stuffed as it is. Let’s see how we can proceed once we get closer. Thanks!
Oh, that’s EXACTLY what I’d hoped you’d say, Rich. I really do mean it when I say you’re all doing excellent work!
…So, it looks like my streak of supporting every Onyx Path Kickstarter isn’t likely be broken any time soon. Dang? Well, that’s what my wallet and girlfriend say, but what do THEY know? 😛
so, any chance of a Street Fighter 20th next year?
When we first announced at Gen Con last year, someone inquired about Street Fighter.
The SF license expired back in 1996-ish. It’s a Capcom property, not a White Wolf property. So it’s been more than 15 years since the last time it was something available to work with. Since it wasn’t White Wolf’s to give, it’s not something we’re doing anything with.
Is “Hunter: Mortal Remains” the book formerly known as “Hunter: Monstrous Basterds” or “Hunter: the something about Monsters?”
That was about to be my question, too. Since I don’t see “Something About Monsters” listed and Rich mentioned a new title, I’m inclined to think it is.
That’s correct.
“Hunter: Monstrous Basterds” was the title I threatened Matt McElroy with if we didn’t come up with a different one. I do that sometimes. “Hunter: the something about Monsters” was something I stuck up there to show that Monstrous Basterds was changing its title. Now we have that new title and it’s “Hunter: Mortal Remains”.
Three titles for the same book.
On the one hand, I would be entirely satisfied with the free text you’ve put online for now. (In fact, I could start playing right now.)
On the other hand, the art is very, very shiny, as well as the stretch goals, and I’d feel terrible not giving anything in return for what I consider is great work, so as soon a I am able to do so, I’m going to pledge.
[Insert here tired jokes about Developers showing the unedited text for free and using the Devil’s Advocate Embed to get people to nonetheless buy the final version.]
Thank you! And, uh, pay no attention to that demon behind the curtain…
Still being worked on. The movement forward on this is slow enough that regular Updates wouldn’t tell folks anything of value.
Thanks for the update on all the things, Rich. I’m glad that the Demon KS is going well, and that Rose & Matt are taking a bit of the pressure off you in helming the ship. I’m sure that running even the smoothest KS campaign can’t be easy, and for those that have a lot of backers that are not shy about telling you how much they’re upset about this or that the person the receiving end of those messages has their work cut out for them, so it’s good to see that you’re getting a bit of help in your cat herding ventures. Also, this is a big plus for the Demon fans, because developer interest and feedback is one of the most influential factors in stoking and maintaining interest in a game line, at least for me.
I appreciate these glimpses into the way OP is using Kickstarter, and the evolution of the medium is interesting. My thoughts on KS have been evolving as well. Up until this year, I’d been ignoring OP KS campaigns, because I decide whether I’m going to purchase a book or not based on my level of interest in its subject matter, and KS to me was a way to pre-order a collector’s edition of book I was going to buy anyway. Nothing the KS campaigns facilitated could make me open my wallet for a book that didn’t grab my attention from the get-go (except maybe the limited tier rewards)-until the Hunter’s Hunted II KS ended, and I saw how much content had been added to the book from hitting the stretch goals. This new content made me really excited about buying a PoD copy of the book, and that campaign showed me that Kickstarter was worth paying attention to. The W20 Changing Breeds KS was fun to watch, and while the Fera aren’t my thing, I still got excited for the backers whenever a new content goal was hit (and I’m somewhat interested in the lost breeds myself, so that book has gone from “will not purchase” to “worth a look”).
I’m a proponent of stretch goals that add extra in-book content because that stuff is beneficial to both the KS backers of a book as well as the customers that can’t or don’t make a KS pledge. It looks like you’re trying a few experimental things with the campaign for Demon, but I hope that such content-adding goals make a return with future Kickstarters, even if that leads to delays in delivering books. Of course, that’s easier to say from the perspective of one that’s not answering all those “where’s my book?!” messages, so…
Sorry that got so long. I have a lot of thoughts about Kickstarter. Anyway, I hope this doesn’t read antagonistically, I hope business ventures go smoothly for OP, and I hope the Demon backers get a product they’re happy with.
On a completely different note, I’m getting V20: Dark Ages and Under a Darkening Sky confused (along with Dark Eras sometimes, too much darkness going around). UaDS is a supplement for Dark Ages: (Gameline) and V20: Dark Ages is a new book for V20 in the vein of the 1996 book called Vampire: the Dark Ages, correct?
Thanks- great to hear personal stories about what is working as we keep playing around with KS. I read nothing antagonistic in there- no worries. I think we have to balance each project with what it is intended to accomplish, and the nature of the book involved. And then also, the ability or interest of the Development team as to how much input they can handle. Then we can have specific parts of the book that can be added to as part of the KS like with EX3, or huge swathes like Changing Breeds, or nothing internal like our core books.
Yeah, the titles do get a bit similar, don’t they. To try and clarify: DA: Darkening Sky is a legacy project created to fit in with those books created at the tail end of the Dark Ages line development years ago. We’re doing it because fans said they felt a bit cheated that WW said it was coming but the line was halted before it came out- much like we did with creating the rest of the cMtA Convention books.
V20: Dark Ages is the core book to run the Vampire: Dark Ages historical setting but updated to mesh with the V20 rules. Pretty much the same way that the original Vampire: The Dark Ages was an offshoot of VtM at the time.
Dark Eras is a book wherein each of the nWoD game lines get a historical Era section of the book. It’s going to be a big book, plus we’re going to use Kickstarter in a way we never have really run with to determine what else goes in there. Bigger sections for some game lines, or additional Eras, or Eras for sub-lines like WoD: Innocents. It’s going to be crazy fun, I think.
I will say that my players and I are eager to get Ex3 as soon as possible. We want to cut our teeth on the orichalcum-lined artifacts of the book.
Plus I want that sexy map. It will hang on my wall in my living room.
I just hope that my group can be among those chosen for the playtest.
How committed are you to Kickstarter for your crowdfunding? I saw some complaints here about Kickstarter’s lack of advanced features, requiring an extra fee for things like Backerkit.
Hey Rich:
I also am glad that you give us a glimpse into the process of these works of art. Being a backer of both W20 and HH2, I am feeling a little antsy on the arrival of both. Have you thought of requesting of the shippers that the Backers get a tracking number(s) for them via email?
In prior MM postings, I remember seeing a query posted that I don’t recall seeing answered, so I’ll echo it once more; so here goes:
Have you considered, as a way to generate more pledges for a physical book from those that may be teetering on the edge on making the leap towards that pledge, possibly including a discounted PoD version, or if a Pledger adds Addon funds to make up the difference, an included PoD version for when the PoD files get sent to DTRPG for any future KSs? Maybe even include them as built in pledge tiers, or as a test KS for maybe Anarchs Unbound or even M20 or Wr20 or one of the nWoD ones. (Theoretically, it could be logistically easy, due to the issuance of the books’ PDF to backers).
I envision that idea as a way to avoid feelings of ill-will concerning projects like W20, which is now over a year since the KS was funded. (I’m not angry – just anxious for W20 and HH2 to arrive at my mailbox/doorstep).