Now that you’ve had the weekend to chew on what’s shaping up for V20 support, let’s take a look under the hood at the next book in the sequence. It’s kind of weird to think about what’s in book two when you haven’t yet seen book one in its final form, but that’s how publishing works. Ever forward!
I’m sharing the V20 outline Google doc here:
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1iUG1D08PCN6s5SN8atQTaRJVL2TA80gtwtNstuYSOmo
Take a peek, swish it around in your brain like a smoky scotch in your mouth, and then leave a little feedback for us here. You can give whatever feedback you like: Suggestions for titles, something about vampires an technology that’s always given you pause, or your favorite locale. Whatever it is, let us hear from you!
Some amount of this will come up in discussions at the Grand Masquerade, but we don’t want to leave anyone out. So long as you have an idea to share, please do so.
One of the things to bear in mind is that this whole process is transparent. What you’re seeing is what we see at every step of the way. So, for example, if we decide that the technology chapter is running long, we may push the locations back to a different book (or a web freebie). Likewise, if I manage to get everything said about titles that I need to say in 6,000 words instead of the planned 10,000 (which isn’t likely, since I’m already over 6K in the titles chapter, but, you know, it’s an example), then I’m not going to pad that 10K — I’ll find something else to fills its place and we’ll talk about it here, at the Grand Masquerade, or somewhere else online. In a nutshell, everything that used to go on behind the scenes is now happening in front of you, which is why we’re wanting to ask exactly what you want at every step.
But enough from me. Look at that outline and let’s see how it holds up!
Omg, where to start? Just wait until I get home from work… LOL
Well, you have to talk about Brazil, not only Rio or the Amazon. Please! 🙂
Throwing the idea ball around a little here.
‘The Internet is like your Ventrue elder: It -never- forgets your fuckups.’
It’s also easy to cast doubt on any Masquerade breaches that pop up on YouTube. A few useful neonates and ghouls with internet connections and throwaway accounts can distribute a swarm of ‘lol fake’ comments and crisis averted.
The scramble to control leaked information could make for some interesting story hooks. Maybe a few vampires are competing to be the first to ghoul a useful employee at a particular technology company. A ghoul at YouTube would be invaluable to squash masquerade breaches.
And with the spate of database hacks going around recently, maybe a not-particularly-tech-savvy Elder’s username and password was the target of one or more of these attacks. (The password in question was of course set to ‘password’, a fact which the local court will not let him forget for a long, long time).
And location-wise I would love some non-US cities. London, Paris, maybe Rome or Venice. Nighttime in Oslo is nearly 24 hours during winter, which could make for some very interesting chronicles.
It sounds great. I know Chapter 2 will go down deliciously well with Storytellers and players alike. I’m still surprised at how many people hardly ever keep boons going in their games that I’ve come across simply because they don’t know how to really portray it, start it off or even when to cash in on them.
Given the nature of some of the bloodlines, I think indentured servitude (with that lovely vampiric twist!) should definitely come into this section, either from only a select few hardline Kindred or indeed, entire bloodlines. “The Embrace is a gift from my very soul. That I have brought you into this world speaks of the breadth of my generosity. Of my unending reach.” With the potential of centuries laid bare before neonates, it’s no wonder their masters might demand this. What would it even mean for a vampire? Being someone’s undead bitch, perhaps forced recurrent blood bonds, yearly tithes or even spying on others all fall within what many would call acceptable payment.
As a part of that servitude in my games, I would have the sires of some of my players send the characters of my players to other Kindred within the city to fulfil boons of various natures. From perverted desires to Masquerade mishaps, the players would learn through the fulfilment of their sires’ boons how debts are paid and gained. I think it’s one of the most underused storytelling tools there is. Those Kindred who want to survive in the WoD will learn these dances or forever be taken advantage of.
*Given the nature of some of the CLANS. Don’t mind me, just detaching myself from Requiem a bit.
Would be worth discussing if the ShreckNet has somewhat lost its influence with the rise of social media and networks like FB. I mean, now everybody has a virtual place to share information with like-minded individuals, not just the Sewer Rats.
Also I would find information about Europe very helpful, not just the hot spots like Paris or Vienna. Especially Germany would interest me.
Locations are a tough topic to work with. On the one hand, we want to see neat places that inspire visits or even whole chronicles. On the other hand, they have to be minimal yet significant enough not to undo the work of a Storyteller who has built a location into her chronicle while at the same time not revealing too many secrets about the location so a player can just read it and have all the answers.
An “A World of Darkness: Revised” might be in order.
I would love to see a real list of all of the Justicars, Arch-bishops, and Seraphim. Maybe some archons, templars, and packs of note and where they frequent. I do love using my own NPCs but I still enjoy learning about what Sascha Vykos is up to, or what Beckett is searching for now.
This is my first post, and I haven’t had much of a chance to see some of the previous discussions, but I do have a few thoughts:
-First, I don’t see anything wrong with advancing the metaplot a little bit. I think it was one of the more distinctive things about cWoD. If you are going to be talking about locations, and not just rehashing what most of us know about them, then I think you need to advance the metaplot a little bit.
-Along those lines, I think New York, London, and Eastern Europe are good places to start. New York because of, well, the battle of NY. People will want to know what’s going on with the Camarilla/Sabbat situation there in 2011. London has always been a draw, particularly the Mithras story arc. Eastern Europe is a necessity. Obviously it is no longer simply a post-Soviet region of Europe. That is not even considering the idea of the aftermath of the Transylvania Chronicles, or what’s been going on since the fall of the Shadow Curtain.
-Aside from those locations, I’d say talk about Mexico City, and either Atlanta or DC.
Given the current trend of trying to avoid the metaplot, I doubt this will be a helpful contribution on my part. However, I am kind of sick of metaplot being a dirty word. It was always an option, but a lot of fun to work with. That’s my 2 cents right there.
It’s a fine line to walk. We really want the players’ stories to be the ones that garner the attention. When we advance a storyline, we complicate people’s chronicles because our developments might not be the developments the players wanted to see directly, or they might refute things their troupes have already done.
I don’t think metaplot is a dirty word, I think our role is more of providing stuff to do and then giving the players license to do it. If we advance our own plotlines, that takes some of the agency away from the people playing.
Then let the players choose not to use it. I believe the metaplot should be advanced slightly or more at least as an optional setting. Those who want to keep playing in their own created setting may choose to use it or not, but give something to those that want something new.
When I used to play I took the ongoing metaplot as reference. The golden rule that there are no rules, was applied to the storyline…it’s what the storyteller says it is in any given chronicle. Independently some general framework was needed or was a great topic to discuss while sharing a beer or a bottle of wine.
Might I suggest the Magnificent Seven, London, the Victorian garden cemeteries. All Inner London churchyards by law were closed to new deposits and the government encouraged private cemeteries outside London. (They were closed due to multiple burials in the same spot.) In 1981, Hugh Meller, architectural historian dubbed the names of them from watching the western by the same name. The dates are when they were established.
Kensal Green Cemetery, 1832
West Norwood Cemetery, 1837
Abney Park Cemetery, 1840
Nunhead Cemetery, 1840
Brompton Cemetery, 1840
Tower Hamlets Cemetery, 1841
Highgate Cemetery, 1839
The imagery of Highgate Cemetery and the history of the place and it’s citizens alone is enough to mention it here, however the other cemeteries, given their dates and how easily it is to tie their existence into Kindred society, makes for great storytelling. Where Highgate is concerned, it’s “Egyptian Avenue”, the Circle and Cedar of Lebanon, intensely gothic victorian feel, and the closeness of the paths when walking it make for an exquisite place to have in any Vampire game. (The ex used to volunteer there, the owners let nature take over for some 40 years before they started to peel it back in places, uncovering a plethora of things.) Unfortunately, the old crone that owns the place is one harsh woman hellbent on keeping out people with cameras and what you see on Google barely scratches the surface of the place, fantastic as they pictures are, that is. Then again, I suppose these cemeteries are a bit cliché by now. But they are still stunning.
Also, a question. For iconic places, do you want to stay mainly within the U.S. or are other places acceptable such as Istanbul, Paris or even St. Petersburg or Casablanca?
Excellent! We’re definitely the lookout for stuff worldwide — don’t feel confined to the US. We’ll probably have five or six US locations (most of our market is domestic). Finding which ones to visit or revisit is going to be the hard part because there’s a lot of cool stuff out there.
Based on the territory maps in the 2nd Ed Guides to the Sabbat (which admittedly have probably changed quite a bit since then), the border of Sabbat territory cut right between Toronto and Hamilton, with Toronto on the Sabbat side and Hamilton as Camarilla.
Both cities have a lot of history, and are part of one of the most densely-populated areas of Canada, while still containing a lot of conservation areas and park space. I really liked the dynamic there and utilized it to great effect for years. The available stories were so rich I almost didn’t have to do anything.
I really think that an official well construed metaplot is great, much better than no metaplots whatsoever that leaves Storytellers (old and new) to do as they wish, for good or for bad. The creators of a setting have to give it support and give players better ideas than the ones they’d have by themselves. The only thing worse than no metaplots are a myriad of incongruent metaplots (some of them great, many good, and some worse than most players could come up with) that leaves the players free to choose – but without enough support to make the choosing. Many troupes tried in vain to reconcile all these metaplots, the more sensible gave up the idea early on. With not so many writers involved now in the V20 worldbuild it seem that creating a solid metaplot would be easier on the editor(s) and line developer(s). The troupes which dislike it (as a whole or some of its parts) and/or could come up with a better one are still free to do so as they ever were and use it.
Best.
Hi Justin,
I really dislike your use of (US) market as an argument here. Aren’t we in a more connected world, trying to get past the us/them dichotomy? where everybody is interested in the bigger, more wholesome view? I think we should all be, and I tend to see all roleplayers as an international community even more connected then most. As for the V20 locations I believe we could develop the update chronologically. Something like:
Late 90s
East Europe wars
HK goes back to China
Hale Bopp comet
Cloning
Nuclear France/Pakistan/India
Euro
Panama gets channel
00s
Genome project
Unclear US pres. election
NYC (Tsi involved?)
US & allies war on terror
Congo war
Afghanistan war
Sudanese war
Color revolutions
Dismantling of Yugoslavia
European heatwave
Asian (and east African) tsunami
Ossetia conflict
Katrina
Kashmir quake
Sichuan quake
Nagris cyclone
Haiti quake
Arab spring
Black Saturday bushfires
Polish gov. deaths
Queensland flood and cyclone
Real state based market crash
Gulf oil spill
Tohoku quake and tsunami, Fukushima nuclear disaster
(…)
And develop interesting affected locations…
As far as stereotypes go I don’t think they are avoidable, but at least they could be interesting and well developed. We could use local, more ingrained, and specially game relevant ones.
Best!
Multiple burials is an understatement! 😉 Burial grounds in 18th and early 19th century London were pretty shocking places.
(Sorry, a bit ot, but one of my favourite topics in the world!)
Somewhat related to technology, but more to biology. This came up when I first started playing, and my character paid the bills by working the night shift in the ER. One night a torpored vampire came in. I knew that there weren’t going to be vitals like heartbeat, blood pressure, air intake, or anything like that. But I assumed that there’d still be brain activity, and that’s how I’d determine if it was a vampire or just a corpse, so I hooked it up to an EEG.
The ST decided that in the same way as a vampire is “alive” without a heartbeat, it would be “alive” without brain activity either, so short of feeding it blood or waiting for it to wake up, there’d be no clear way to tell.
Ever since then, this has bugged me. I’m still of the opinion that there’d be some brain activity evident to scans.
Great example, and a good one outside the “vampire use computers” primary field.
Schreknet shows the Nos are comfortable with being on the cutting edge of tech. And why not? Anonymous/pseudonymous interactions with others is a boon for the ugly ones. Put up a nice fake avatar and connect. There are only three types of people on the Internet, Noferatu pretending to be male, Nosferatu pretending to be female and Nosferatu pretending to be children.
The actions of ‘Anonymous’ and wikileaks and other online activism from the “dwellers in Mom’s basement” are good inspiration for what the Nos could be doing. Resisted by Ventrue dupes in law enforcement and commerce. Google + is an “Identity Service” – how the Nos would rage! Image tagging forced Obfuscated Vamps to change and change and change or be trackable, excepting of course, the whole issue of getting a picture taken in the first place. Big social hookup sites liek Ok Cupid etc are an interesting way for a tech savvy (and unsocially acceptable) Kindred to arrange the occasional ‘take out’ meal.
Elders resisting the modern fads like twitter “I don’t need to know when you last didn’t take a dump.” but perhaps being drawn into it – maybe via personal assistants who get to do the dirty work of actual status updates, texting etc – due to the ease at which pronouncements can be distributed, Elysiums declared and so forth. Of course, other grognard Elders still need to be contacted in the old familiar ways, or need their own PAs to check twitter and facebook etc.
Google Maps + iPhone (/device) tracking make identifying lairs and havens simpler than it used to be.
To preserve the masquerade shows like Mythbusters are sponsored to debunk potential breaches on YouTube.
DeviantArt.com – a trap by Toreador, for Toreador! 🙂
London/ Egyptian riots might be a good example of how the Brujah rally using social media, and the Ventrue response to it of trying to disconnect the internet.
I think this might be a good way to organize the chapter, even. We don’t need lengthy discussions about how a vampire uses Facebook and organizes his friends. Bullet-points and story seeds and almost Anarch Manifesto-like “do this” quick hits let us cover a lot of ground without holding people’s hands. More content, mode ideas.
I’m very excited about this. Will take a good deep look at the outline and come back here. Thanks again for the opportunity to share on the development process!
Something else that would be useful is some of the mechanics left behind from V20: Koldunic rituals (as found in Players Guide to the High Clans), Abyss Mysticism (since i can’t imagine that is in there), and any forgotten Mortis/Thaum/Sabbat rituals that are thematic.
As for technology: the biggest problem for Vampires is the forensic evidence they will leave behind, especially for the Sabbat.
And IIRC the default age of a new player was around 50 years (mortal lifespan + undead unlifespan). So the only vampires that would understand any of this are those that are fresh childer. You really think they’re going to realize someone posted them on youtube, they might track down the camera phone, but forget about the fact that the person uploaded it to the internet.
And god, a venture might feed off someone, then dominate them, and that poor person will have no memory of it… but his sd card will.
We talked about this a lot, and Rich, Eddy and I all agreed that we didn’t want this title to be stuff that was left on the cutting room floor, as previous companions had been. Rich was very firm in taking advantage of the open development process and getting direct feedback, as opposed to doing what we’ve done in the past with one-way production on books.
I also envisage the varied groups of ‘Anonymous’ on-line who scuffle and boast and perform acts of ‘cyber-terrorism’ as being driven by the different ideologies of clans – anything Anonymous does ‘for teh lulz’ has a distinct Malkavian feel, the various government hacks maybe come from Anarchs or Brujah and so on. Not saying vamps are behind *all* attacks and movements (that’s something I like the general trend of moving away from), but a few key interested vamps could certainly excite, enflame and stir up in the desired direction. Malks playing on 4Chan and stirring up Memes as part of their Madness Network amuses me. 🙂
The idea of the Malkavian Madness Network being an actual computer network is terrifying.
I was hoping to see some of the magic paths not being covered in V20 covered here. It doesn’t look like I’m going to get that, which is a bit of a downer. If space is the issue, I’d rather lose the “Technology and the Undead” chapter. Most people can figure out on their own how the march of technology changes the game and the setting. We just had a whole youtube plot in the cWod Vampire LARP that I am in, and we didn’t really need a whole chapter explaining how vampires use modern technology. I figure every tech savvy Sabbat pack has their own closed group on Facebook at this point, and I don’t think that needs to be spelled out for people to understand. I think it is a fun topic to explore, but if it is space considerations that are preventing the inclusion of updated material from Blood Magic and Blood Sacrifice, I’d rather have updated versions of those paths than extra fluff, and a few systems, that I can extrapolate on my own. If my choice is fluff or crunch, I’ll take crunch every time. Though, I’ll admit, I’d rather pay a bit more and get both the crunch that was left out of V20 and the stuff about technology.
It’s not stuff that was “left out,” it was material that wasn’t introduced in the first place because of space concerns. At over 500 pages, there wasn’t much “left out” of V20, especially if you consider that over Vampire’s 13-year lifespan, over 10 linear feet of book length by spine was created.
I certainly think there’s a place for more crunch and powers — we did two separate books on Thaumaturgy alone, after all — but I don’t think opening the V20 support salvo with them would have been the right call.
Please focus on blood magic/disciplines/tech interaction! Not just techsavvy, but bloodytechsavvy.
You’re calling it fluff, and the book hasn’t even been written yet? Moving swiftly on.
Another place for consideration.
Casablanca, Morocco. Capital of the Grand Casablanca region. The city’s port is one of the largest artificial ports in the world. The large amount of transients docking for the holidays makes it a veritable feast for the Kindred who visit, not to mention those who are lucky enough to reside in the city. The setting is perfect for Storytellers to introduce a more relaxing atmosphere, a bit of the exotic nightlife away from their normal cities. The skyline is dominated by the Hassan II mosque, the second largest mosque in the world which gives any game that portrays True Faith a nice twist. It’s beautiful craftsmanship is lauded the world over.
For those Kindred that may need to find peace of mind, they could visit the whitewashed tombs of The Marabout de Sidi Abderrahmane. A coastal feature, visitation is mostly only at low tide given where situated upon the rocky shoreline. People with mental disorders and the like visit here from all over the world to ease their thoughts. The place begs to be put in the WoD. If you’re a sucker for the more traditional stained glass churches of course, the Notre Dame de Lourdes is a massive place with quite memorable imagery.
Most of the coast has been under heavy development in the last 10 years, bringing in huge entertainment centers such as the Anfaplace Living Resort and the Megarama Cinema. You have the long walkway of the La Corniche connecting the Port areas to the rest of the city. The Old Medina part of the city where smaller businesses and the rush of customers from all manner of stalls and small archways accentuate that all too familiar claustrophobic feel that sometimes punctuates our games.
But if you’re in the mood for a scene your players will never forget, then visiting the Parc de la Ligue Arabe is a must. The layout and presence of the place will leave it’s mark on any game.
I think Casablanca is a perfect place for traveling Kindred. A place where Storytellers can begin all manner of meetings, side quests and perhaps even a touch of what, described in the words of one character might be called being torn between love and virtue. 😉
Interesting, I played in a two-year Requiem LARP chronicle set in Casablanca….
Hey, wasn’t the introductory LARP with the WOD Dev team set in that chronicle?
Not entirely, but there were some elements of it in that game.
I’m sure it would be a great place to run a game for more than a couple of sessions like I have in the past. It’s got a rich enough history to be interesting and it’s really only come into it’s own within the last century so there’s room for plenty of different gaming scenarios involving power grabs. The population exploded after French colonialists came. The fighting between the French and the locals continued back and forth the 1950s when they gained their independence. I think the power struggles portrayed in the movie, while good, didn’t even show any Arabs so.. maybe it’s something that should be given coverage in a potential segment.
Yeah, I got the idea to put it here after seeing that Casablanca was listed on some LARP stuff.
Meditations on how the undead use technology is fluff. I don’t see fluff as useless, I love fluff. It gives me warm fuzzies when I read it, but it is not as useful to me as the magic stuff not included in V20 would be. So if I have to lose fluff to see the rules information that I would rather see, so be it. Like I said, I’d rather have both, but if I have to choose one it would be the updated rules. I like how people just disregard comments they don’t agree with instead of engaging them on any level. If this continues, this whole open development process is going to be loads of fun.
I’m not disregarding your comments, Dan. I was questioning what you considered fluff. And I believe WW well know what they let themselves in for when they decided to open the barn doors. They’re just crazy enough to put on their shitkickers and muck in. If you want more magic stuff, why not draw up a proposal and send it in to them? Now, more than any other time, WW is listening to their fans, so why not? And, never, ever underestimate what people need telling to them.
Fair enough. I was being a bit over-sensitive to your comments, and I took them as disregarding what I was saying. I apologize for my response. Also, you’re probably right the with the “And, never, ever underestimate what people need telling to them” comment. If what Justin said to my first comment is correct, and this is just the first supporting project for V20, than I am less worried about getting the other magic systems crammed into this book. I can wait for a magic book, or an additional systems book, or a how-ever-it-will-be-handled book until later. I might consider drafting a proposal for V20 updated magic systems to submit to them, but I am much better at writing fluff (hence my reason for liking but not needing it) than I am at writing crunch (which is why I see it as more important to me).
Another location for consideration, is Mumbai.
Money follows blood and dear gods there’s plenty of both in Mumbai. With over 20 million people in the Mumbai Metropolitan Region and a cash flow that can make most Ventrue blush, this place is primed for V:tM. Hell, the very geography of the place is split up into 7 islands that can be fought over. 70% of India’s capital transactions flow through this place and it’s attracting the most rich and power people on the planet year after year. And of course there’s no time like the present to talk about India’s caste system in V:tM and how it would affect Kindred relations. It’s definitely a far cry from when the islands were leased to the British East India Company in 1668 for a sum of £10 per annum. The current population density is sitting on around 21,000 to 23,000 per square kilometre. With this much cash and blood for brick and mortar, vampires can’t stand to be away from it.
It’s got widespread poverty, unemployment, a massive migrant population and poor public health and civic standards for a large section of the populous. It’s got churches of every kind of religion you want and an entire culture bent on the worship of hundreds of different gods and goddesses. And what’s dotted in and around this titanic city? 4 or 5 of the largest slums on the planet. Estimates put the population of these collective slums at anywhere between a quarter and a third of the city’s population. And most of the city’s ruling elite want to get rid of them to make way for more buildings.
It’s practically a human zoo. And it’s been engineered that way. If Storytellers can’t make a game out of this city, they should walk away from V:tM. This is the 21st century’s social experiment in meatbag zoology and the skyline and body bags just keep piling up.
I just love thinking about elders and technology; if you went into torpor in 1100 and woke up in 1300, the world would not have been radically different. But if you went to sleep in 1900 and woke up in 2011.. the pace of change these days is astonishing. For a new childe in the modern nights, you have to think that tech savvy must be one of the greatest advantages they have against an anachronistic elder, and they don’t even have to wait until their blood disciplines grow powerful to start deploying it. 🙂
In the chronicle we run, the Sabbat regularly stick Masquerade breaking things on Youtube and the anarchs use online chatrooms to meet because the scourges of the various domains they live in have no jurisdiction online. Quite a few characters maintain hackers and programmers and the generally tech-able amongst their retinue. The Camarilla uses CCTV to hunt Sabbat but the Sabbat know they’re doing it and hide their faces or get out of it’s range. We also ran a plot around the government’s plans to introduce biometric ID cards for the population and how the kindred had to deploy their influence over the human government (something in which they have a general policy of none interfernace in our chronicle) but also win the propaganda war by supporting the freedom lobby. We also have characters who use saved searches on Twitter to check up the goings on in the city in various areas, and who know to disregard gossip and check on rumours. We even decided that we would have a general discussion at conclave about the threats and advantages posed by technology to the Kindred in the modern world (we have it that the Sabbat and Anarchs are generally more savvy having a greater concentration of young).
As a Londoner, I have to vote for London to be covered of course! For myself, as we run our game set here, it’s not so useful, as we already have our version and it’s personnel in place, but certainly it’s an amazing city with a fantastic history.
And I am generally more keen on fluff than rules and systems. It is the amazing *world* of VtM that inspires me and keeps me coming back for (for me) the last 15 years, not the rules. 🙂
Distant techno-phobic/resistant Elders aside, imagine the rise of Wall Street computer algorithms. The Ventrue (and others) want money, want money fast, to fund their nightly activities. A corporate savvy kindred or two existing within the system, ghouling Quants who are desperate for the edge of celerity and fortitude in coding fast and coding for 20+ hour days to finetune their trading algorithms. You don’t even need ghouled brokers for this as the trading is done via the technology.
Stock market bubbles like the mortgage crisis are irrelevant to kindred (the ones ‘in charge’ anyway). Tax cuts and bailouts are important to the wealthy elite of mortal and kindred alike.
I love the content of this book, and really look forward to reading it, even just from the outline.
Being from S.FL I highly recommend Miami as a setting. Its not your typical gothic feel, but it has a thriving nightlife and is the Gateway to Latin America. There are more international financial institutions in Miami than anywhere else… which makes it ideal for Ventrue or Giovanni… though iirc it was in the hands of the Sabbat or contested due to metaplot advances when the Sabbat rampaged up and down the US East Coast and stuff happened. But even in Sabbat hands, as Miami is by no means the destroyed place most Sabbat cities end up (Detroit, Mexico City, etc.), it would be interesting to see why that is and what Sabbat is financially minded, etc.
As for the Tech and Undead chapter, Im dying to see this. Many things are starting to require bio/tech interaction… for instance: the iPhone doesnt respond to pens or other non-living items as I believe it detects the bio-electricity when we touch the screen and completes a circuit. As the undead are not living, do they give off bio-electricity at all? What about the cybernetic prosthesis that we are getting some nice developments on? (Of course I mean the non-Technocratic variety) Etc.
The Prestation chapter also intrigues me. Always been a point of contention what favors are worth what, etc. Be nice to have some guidance and how they are recorded, etc.
Again, cant wait to see this book and love this open dev. process.
Call me selfish, but I’d love to see a description of Detroit and its place as a Sabbat Stronghold. Particularly given its close location to Chicago a traditionally held Camarilla city, there’s room for an interesting dynamic.
But I’m a Detroit native so I’m biased.
Well, talking as a brazilian, as Livia did, I would love to see more of Brazil depicted in White Wolf books. Especially one city in particular – São Paulo – commonly left out, even though it is one of the most important cities of the country, if not from all latin america. In fact, São Paulo is the largest city in south america, and the eight in the world, besides being a huge economic center. The city is quite different from rio, and has a mood of its own. Nowadays, is even being used as scenario for games like Max Payne. Surely it is a place of titanic importance in the jyhad, and with a gigantic potential for vampires ( more than 17 million inhabitants in its metropolitan region).
I´m sure it is a tough topic, and I understand all the precautions. But always seemed strange to me that the city was left out of the classic WoD material, as long as I can remember.
Finnaly, thax again for the oportunity not just to contribute, but to see how these wonderful books are made.
What about a map or a series of political maps. That show minimal information like:
1. if its Sabbat, Camarilla, Anarch controlled or independent, or to dagerous to set foot in
2. famous or very important domains or sites, with the name of the Prince or whoever controls it.
3. Dont forget the Caribbean a lot of faithfull VTM players around.
Seconded. Absolutely. Since one could argue that there are thousands of instances of the World of Darkness worldwide – one for each chronicle, say – it would be really interesting to see what an “average” World of Darkness would look like. And since a picture is worth more a thousand words, I guess you could afford a couple of maps, maybe one from 1981 and one from 2011.
Some random thoughts:
I do remember a throwaway comment in the MET Sabbat Guide, to the effect that they’ve largely ignored South America. Are you freaking kidding me? You’ve got overcrowded cities where life is cheap, corruption is rampant, and the Catholic church still has a heavy influence on the culture. You couldn’t design a better Sabbat city than that if you tried. But why do Sabbat have to be the bad guys in the bad places? Imagine a Camarilla city of 10 million people in South America. Imagine Camarilla vampires being raised in a slum culture where life is cheap and you do anything to survive, and their Humanity is hanging on by a thread.
There are lots of huge cosmopolitan metropolises around the world that are vibrant and interesting and have unique geographies and landmarks, but at some point, if you’ve seen one you’ve seen em all. It’s why Marvel Comics puts everything in New York, because Daredevil would still be Daredevil if he lived in Dallas. Player’s can’t see the amazing statues and architecture that you saw on your last vacation, it’s just stuff to run by while chasing the bad guy.
I would like to see some unique political geography that breaks the mold (There’s nothing wrong with learning the lessons of VTR). Maybe there is a city whose Prince is so powerful that for his own reasons he’s allowed the Sabbat in, designing a medieval-like city where the Camarilla are like the Nobility (who rule mortal affairs) and the Sabbat are like the Clergy (who teach the knowledge of Caine and the Paths of Enlightenment). Suppose between the Prince and the Bishop, they’re powerful enough to ward off the Black Hand and Justicars, but they balance each other out (more or less). Maybe the prince and bishop are Brujah who’ve actually achieved their dream of creating a new order, or they’re a Lasombra and Lasombra Antitribu who’ve been rivals since long before the Anarch Revolt.
I know from playing MET that eventually you get to the point where you’ve “solved” everything the STs can throw at you. Sabbat invasion? We have an agile, deployable response team and every Kindred knows his or her “battle station.” Baali infestation? Break out the Auspex and start reading minds (Auspex: destroying plots since 1991TM). Assamite killing people? Kill him back. Praxis Seizure? Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Justicar coming? Everybody assume the position. When we have so many hours on our hands at a MET game we can plan and counter-plan for everything the ST might throw at us (again).
What I want from the V20 companion is ideas for stories that I’ve never done before and that will challenge our collective problem-solving ability rather than our disciplines (because MET characters tend to max out all of their powers rather quickly on a Vampire time scale. Why does your 100 year old Ancilla who just arrived in the city have 3 basics when my Neonate who was embraced 2 years ago has maxed disciplines and traits?) I want story ideas that can’t be beaten with liberal use of Summoning, Telepathy, and Mesmerism.
It’s a pretty tall order, I know.
Well,
You don’t seem to have been getting good STs. Try new ones with or without the V20 companion. BTW I also hope V20 brings fresh blood to the game.
I think Cainite Physiology might be important enough to warrant its own chapter. You know, stuff the average Kindred would know versus stuff Douglas Netchurch would know.
– Are vampiric vitae and human blood chemically different? Do they mingle (say, inside a ghoul’s veins)? If so, do they separate when centrifuged? Is vampiric vitae recognizable by (non-Enlightened) science?
– Why cannot vampires hold food in their stomach? If they were “simply” dead, they ought to be able to store it harmlessly only to puke later (à la Owen Harper from Torchwood, cfr. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJOTCUSFF84&NR=1), so how come their gag reflex still works in that respect?
– Does UV artificial radiation burn the Kindred just like good old Sun does? What if somehow the sun’s spectrum is flawlessly reproduced by scientists?
Not sure if this will get noticed after WWGM, but I didn’t get time to post it earlier.
Getting 10 short descriptions of what makes a city cool won’t catch much of my attention, partly because that will be a list of interesting locations out of a tourist brochure and some evocative comments that can apply to nearly any city. Here, have one that doesn’t list locations and guess where it is.
“Largely ignored, if not outright mocked, by popular culture, CityTown isn’t short on intrigue for Kindred. The economic situation hasn’t gotten much better for mortals since it’s heydays of industrial development, but undead of all walks find lots to gain here despite the dwindling population. Tourism remains present, thanks to city hall’s refusal to discount the importance of art against a straining balance, and CityTown holds a few projects that stand out from it’s otherwise modest surroundings. The streets are still feared once the sun sets, as superficial beauty hasn’t cleared up the crime rate much, and the unique geology seems to attract the darker supernatural elements, as records before modern civilization will attest to.”
So, if I threw in by name the world-class orchestra, the metropark system, salt mines outside of town, a lake conspicuously named for the odd weather it creates, and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, you’d have probably caught on that this is Cleveland, OH [the one I had in mind while writing. If I threw in city murals, Bricktown, recently acquired sports teams, and native american burial grounds, it’d be Oklahoma City, OK instead.
I, personally, would rather see canon plot hooks and reasons to have characters get involved in multiple cities than short descriptions of them, even if they aren’t close to being fleshed out. Vicissitude horrors under NYC along with the Cam/Sabbat wars, the surprisingly powerful Autarch Prince of Vancouver that runs it like a vacation resort away from the backstabbing on all sides of Kindred [and lupine] society, and so on. They may contradict someone’s existing plot, but they aren’t so in-depth as to cripple a campaign already based there. They’re reasons to get Kindred out of their town and traveling around, which can be a bigger challenge than controlling a small part of a city for most vampires.
Alternately, and don’t be too surprised if a fan document pops up like this, it might be nice to see the LARP crowd get a little more attention. Show us what they’ve done with the World of Darkness, and show us lots of groups. What’s up in Washington, DC in Shadows of the Mall in One World By Night? How’s the Camarilla Fan Club handled the Black Swamp Domain? How does unaffiliated Cleveland By Night run a town compared to the big groups? These are all cities with active plots and lots of history, take advantage of them.
I agree with many of the comments about how to depict the Wod. I think that extensive information isn´t needed, but some guidelines would be awesome, mainly the political ones. For exaple, I currently storytell a chronicle set in the dark ages. Really helps me a lot to find some official material about a place my players wish to go, even if it is superficial. In fact, even some general information help a lot ( like ” the city is controlled by a mad ventrue prince”). It doesn´t diminish my creativity, but helps it, because we expand based on what already exists. Even if it isn’t something I like, I ignore it or make the changes I wish. But surely, work based on any information is better than nothig. So, I believe the ideas of general ideas ( be it general plot hooks, political maps, unique political geography etc) is the right one. Francisco, Nerdo, Adam, Gregor … I think we are reaching some consensus.
Another comment: I believe that some extra attention to other countries outside US and Europe would be nice. Not just because nowadays the world is even more connected than in the 90s, but because we don´t have enough info in the original books about some places. As I talked about São Paulo ( a city which I know is not so well know as Rio, but certainly is so, or more important than Rio for the economy and the politics of my country and, in some sense, Latin America), a depiction of the WoD that doesn´t takes it into account seems less credible to me, as a brazilian. And I believe the same would happen in other countries. I’m not asking for a by night, but just to put some places, whic deserve to be, in the Jyhad.
The fans ans the community could help a lot in this effort, and could increase the quality of the work, in my opinion. In case you need something about Brazil, I´m here 😉
I’d like to see more Australian and New Zealand info too. 🙂 Especially Sydney – the Sarrasine run ‘Free City’ of Sydney always intrigued me.
I would love to see St. Louis fleshed out, Denver updated, Savannah Ga progressed in story. What about the Countries like Egypt and Iraq where the governments has been changed, that has to have affected the supernatural world some how. I also would love to finally see Beckett’s stats!
I don´t know how prudent this comment will be, but i´ll say it anyway: You need controversy.
It´s fine and cool to give players a new location to explore or “the kindred Physiology handbook” , but somehow, i don´t see people in forums discussing when it is dramatically appropiated for Kindred to puke, since that is a tool for the storyteller, not the community as whole. Sure, the ST may give it a dramatic feeling, and a party might even find shocking for one of them to puke food and blood all over her daughters dress on her sweet 16´s party, but at the end, how much does that affect the world as whole? how many players can really be affected by the event?, how can you get most players involved in the game, without telling them what to do and how to feel? surely, you wanna get most of the people you can. If that is the case, i would avoid locations… sure, i live in Mexico, and i would love to see a Monterrey by Night, but most players, might not give a rat ass about my city. What i mean, is that I´m not sure that exploring locations is the “right” approach to the problem.
Now that we recognize the problem we can explore what worked before. In the old days the one topic players could not avoid and found entertaining to fight about almost without exception was the nature, power, legends and general facts about the Antediluvians… hell, to this day, people still argue if Capadocious was the progenitor of the Baali bloodline… now, the problem here is that there is already to much info on the Antes, and if we want to keep them a scary monster on the shadows above the collective race of vamps, we better not reveal anything else about them. What you want, is something that let´s you take risk by adding new info and experimenting, but doesn´t fuck everything up if it goes down.
What i propose then is a section of “Legends and Lore” about the Methuselahs. Hell, you can call it, part of the Clans culture. You see, they, on a minor scale, represent something very similar to what the Antes represent… but are closer. I could freely see the Anku (Malkavian Clanbook) been explored, and giving players new and interesting problems (It ate your NAME!!!!!) but, alas, most ST ignore him and leave him to eat other people words… because, even with some cool ideas and propositions, there is just very little info on him, like motivations, or personality, and he doesn´t call much attention because he is just “too far away” emotionally speaking. The way i see it, if you explore just enough about it, the Anku can become just has interesting has Baba Yaga, Mithras, or Ur-Shulgi. Hell, you don´t even have to add new recent events to the meta plot and explore some possibilities. for example, I´m of the theory that Tezcatlipoca was the Methuselah that destroyed Melinda Galbraith using his level 9 power of serpentis. I could easily see that becoming and interesting topic to talk about, if only i had more info and other players had the opportunity to formulate counterarguments…
Hell, even if you decide to ignore the proposition, i need to say something. WW is taking the “safe” way. You have to take chances, and risk many things, and do stuff that people find shocking to keep them interested. I´m not saying that you should risk everything, but maybe you´re a little to much on the “safe side”. That´s in my opinion of why the nWoD metaplot isn´t as interesting as the oWoD metaplot, and i´m afraid this book will have to overcome that problem if it aims has high has i hope it aims…
With you, has always, your humble fan.
Locations are fine and dandy, but most have become associated with some form of metaplot or another.
South America? War on Pentex.
Las Vegas? So many different plots it isn’t funny, including the Nos search for those scary scary relatives, Tremere and Giovanni geneology experiments/research, one of the most powerful Earthside Constructs (Nellis), and a myriad of other things.
New York: Tzimi lives there, enough said.
And many others like them. Why not just condense it down to very short snippets to refresh what is going on, major DRASTIC changes (9-11 in New York/DC, Egypt’s new government, etc.) and how those effect the Kindred and the Jyhad in those areas. It shouldn’t take too much to just update, and would allow for a greater beef within other sections, like technology, or physiology.
If it doesn’t pertain to the beef that is Vampire, why waste the time? Make it a freebie download, and put more important things in, like expanding on Vampire physiology, or the new interactions between Vampire sects and the other venues, like Mage (I think everyone knows about the Technocracy now, Ravnos you cheeky bastard.) In a day and age you are rebooting the big 3, I think it is important to add in these new ties, or animosities that could be forming and brewing, allowing for another antagonist to be added to the storyteller’s list of viable enemies, or a player’s list of possible allies.
I do like the technology gig, but I wonder, how will you handle the changes in Genetic technology and knowledge that this past decade has brought? This would tie in with the above two issues: vampires and the rest of the World of Darkness venues, and vampire physiology. I bet Netchurch would be having a field day!
How about Madrid? It’s a Sabbat stronghold and neighbours to two of the biggest Camarilla domains going. (Pairs and London) it might be an interesting read to see what life is like in a city run by the old school Anarch revolution era Lasombra…
I was reading some WoD books and I just realized: You guys -really like- hierarchies of titles.
Editors did the index for VTM20? Well they missed something.
Anyway, I looked through the topics so far and this seems to be the most fitting place for my question, I hope it gets read.
I just got my V20 pdf download from DrivethruRPG (Love the Antediluvian perks.) It came with an Elder Character sheet similar to what was in the Elysium book. However, none of the content for Elders was in the V20 book, such as expanded backgrounds and Elder only items. Is this going to be included in the companion, or are all those extra dots on the Elder sheet just for fun?
A metaplot could shed a much needed light on the matters of locations, physiology, etc.
They acquire a definite sense and lend support to the metaplot.
I believe a determined Clan way(s?) of dealing with information should ultimately be the basis upon which the way the Clan members deal with all new forms of communication – as social networks – should be built, to the point of absolute negation (it’s more acceptable to totally negate an ancient rule than devise [improper] variants).
I’m disappointed that the V20 Companion outline does not specify any of the missing alternate Level 6+ disciplines (such as Diastasis which was a dark ages alternate level 6 obfuscate power among many others from the clanbooks) Also none of the mixed discipline techniques were mentioned nor have the many many Thurmaturgical paths from Blood Sacrifice or Blood Magic been mentioned. If they won’t be in the V20 Companion, then I’m not really that interested in it. I was looking for a complete rules compendium, the setting I know off by heart as does probably 90% of those who would by V20. I imagine.
As a collector, I truly believe that if these are not published in the onyx path collection for V20 then it isn’t truly representing all the disciplines and powers of the blood that were available in Vampire. I’ve also noticed that some of the morality paths are missing. I want a game that I can run from a few books (between 1-4) not a incomplete collection that doesn’t reflect all of what was once published.
I hope if there is another V20 book to be released, that this one contains the blood magic, mixed disciplines and alternate elder level disciplines.
In anticipation of some replies: I know some people may say: “Just buy Blood Magic and Blood Sacrifice for the Thurmaturgy paths.” I already own them and if I wanted a complete reference of all the mixed disciplines and alternate Level 6+ disciplines I would need to carry with me ALL of the clanbooks, Guide to the High Clans, Guide to the Low Clans, Blood Magic and Blood Sacrifice amongst others!!!
My back wouldn’t take it! LOL! Seriously, I am looking for a crunch compendium and would pay good money to have all the revelvant rules in one place so I could GM with ease. I also wouldn’t mind the Elder maturation and creation rules from Elysium reprinted. Stick in the Time of Thin Blood Discipline Creation section and some Thin Blooded merits as well as some of the missing merits such as “Guardian Angel” and maybe the Roads from Dark Ages unless a D20 is planned, and I’d love this book.
Here’s my outline: Please make this into a book for V20:
Title: Mysteries of the Blood
Introduction: Revise one of the old essays about how a few disciplines can be fun and how people forget lower levels disciplines.
Chapter 1: Secrets of the Clans
Tzimisce Auspex, Toreador Auspex, Malkavian Auspex etc.
Gangrel Animalism, Nosferatu Animalism, Tzimisce Aninalism etc.
Assamite Celerity, Brujah Celerity, Toreador Celerity etc.
Each section is a short paragraph on how the clans use and view their disciplines and at the end of each double page splat is a page of mixed disciplines created by that clan.
At the end of the chapter could be miscelaneous mixed disciplines for sects and dark ages “high clans and low clans”.
Chapter 2: Assamite Sorcery
Paths and Rituals
Chapter 3: Setite Sorcery
Paths and Rituals
Chapter 4: Tremere Sorcery
Paths and Rituals
Chapter 5: Other blood Sorcery
Paths and Rituals
Chapter 6: The might of the Elders
Contains all the alternate Level 6+ disciplines plus Obtenerbration Rituals if not covered in chapter 1. Also Elder Maturation and Creation rules from Elysium.
Chapter 7: Guile of the Thin Bloods
A section of Caitiff and how to create new disciplines with guidelines and examples. Bring back Kineticism. Some of the rules from Time of the Thin Bloods.
Chapter 8: Enlightenments and Golconda
Any missing morality paths to be put here with some ideas for how to run a vampire through golconda or enlightenment and what ‘merits’ they may buy and what mechanics they may have. Elysium had such a merit as did some of the older books.