Okay, ladies and skeletons, this time around we have an excerpt from the technology chapter. One of the things you guys have consistently expressed is some desire to see how the independents do things, since much of the previous (first draft! I’m fixing it!) material pushes them out of the limelight in favor of examinations of the more cohesive sects. So this one’s for you, my independent-clan-loving friends.
<2>The Independents
<n>For those Kindred whose clan is their sect, or whose clan abstains from sectarian endeavors, the use of technology falls much more along the lines of age than it does philosophy. That is, elders of the independent clans are often behind the curve of technology while the younger members are more willing to learn and use new devices, services, or equipment. As with all Kindred, even young members of the independent clans lag a bit behind mortals in terms of awareness and adoption of new technology. No small amount of this comes directly as a result of the Kindred condition: Even the youngest Kindred, at the moment of his Embrace, becomes a static icon of that time. The Damned forever face a stasis that puts them directly at odds with the inexorable advance of technology.
As well, for the independents, most of the clans have a distinct specialty, something that no other clan does with the capacity that they do. The Kindred find it in their nature to trust in their own abilities more than external tools. Aside from simple communication, what use would a Giovanni necromancer have for a smartphone while he’s summoning the souls of the dead? What purpose would a Setite high priest have for broadband wifi while she plumbs the buried secrets of the Middle Kingdom? What does a Ravnos care for 1080p, other than its street value?
That said, the independent clans do have their own penchants for emergent technologies.
<3>Assamites
<n>The Clan of Assassins has long had a formula for success that relies upon their own unique skils and proprietary Discipline more so than it does on tools and implements. Even in the modern nights, an Assamite wielding an ancestral kukri is a far more terrifying sight than any private security force soldier with a cutting-edge submachine gun. More than any other independent clan, the Assamites have actually demonstrated a keen ability to subvert or disrupt existing technologies, particularly defensive ones. Even the most expensive security system won’t stop the functions of Quietus, if the Assamite has a chance to employ them, and how well can that private security force defend a haven if its agents never hear the Assamites coming?
Among the viziers and sorcerers of the clan, technology is no substitute for the time-tested resources that contain mystic research. These jealously guarded secrets are much safer, the amr reason, in physical books than an individual can protect than on easily copied or smuggled digital media.
<3>Giovanni
<n>The Giovanni rely on technology for two pillars of their clan agenda: market analysis and information control.
As a clan with massive financial investment, the Giovanni have been quick to take advantage of technological advancements that enable them to react quickly to financial stimuli. This includes everything from smartphone and mobile device apps that allow them to move their assets instantly to computers with software suites that watch the stock markets and analyze them for optimal returns on investment over very short periods of time. In fact. some members of the clan see parallels in the global stock market and the clan’s legacy casino businesses — they’re both effectively games of chance, and the more ability the Necromancers have to dictate the outcomes of either, the more money they generate.
As a family interest, the Giovanni have been migrating certain of their genealogical resources to a closed-network database on par with that of the Church of Latter Day Saints. One part of this is the ancestor-worship and family veneration that occurs in the cultic familial structure of the clan. The other part is that, as a digital “book of the dead” for the Giovanni, having an archive of the departed and undead is a valuable necromantic resource. The archive lists not only known dead, but their projected status in the Underworld, ability to effect change in the physical world, and contribution to the Endless Night effort.
<3>Ravnos
<n>By and large, the Ravnos are too self-sufficient to worry about much technology. While certain advancement can make the Ravnos unlife a bit more convenient, the Deceivers aren’t a clan that places an enormous value on convenience or comfort. The most common piece of “advanced” technological equipment among the Ravnos is probably some sort of GPS device. The second most common is probably a stolen or pre-paid mobile phone or a Saturday night special. Indeed, among the Ravnos, too much dependency on gimmicks and gewgaws can lead to a loss of Status in the clan and the ill regard of one’s fellow Deceivers. Whether or not an individual cares much about the regard of her fellow Deceivers is a different matter, of course.
Certain Ravnos have a love for the act of travel itself, and choose to spend a great deal of time with their vehicles. Classic cars, vintage bikes, campers that do double duty is mobile haven fortresses — all of these an more might belong to a brood of Ravnos, or even a nomadic mortal family that just happens to have a Ravnos at its center. Some Deceivers would even risk their unlives rather than leave “Ol’ Bess” behind. Then again, it’s just as likely that they can call upon the assistance of an entire motorcycle club of ghouls to take vengeance on the goddamn bloodsucker who put a Ravnos’ favorite 1949 Panhead Harley-Davidson in a ditch.
<3>Setites
<n>To the Setite mind, the end justifies the means, and whether that end is the revivification of their dead god or constructing a web of debts and debasement for his own profit is a matter of personal preference. If turning to a tool makes the difference between the success or failure of a gambit, so be it, and make sure it’s plugged in.
For the Setites, technology is rarely the object of a Kindred’s zeal. In particular, the Setites find themselves adept with technology they use for blackmail and eavesdropping. Their purpose is twofold: Listening in allows them to discern the true desires that linger in their marks’ hearts, and once they acquire dirt on a victim-collaborator, the better able they are to dictate the terms of the relationship or call in favors for their silence. The “dirt” doesn’t even have to be true; many Serpents are also skilled photo manipulators or video editors for the times they need to manufacture evidence or draw attention to something specific.
This isn’t to say the skullduggery is the sole avenue of Setite technology use. For a clan so ancient and steeped in tradition, the Serpents are quick to exploit new technologies that give them an edge. Language translators, security systems, communication devices, and even synthetic drugs and medical advancements all have their uses in the hands of clever Setites. Those who collect clan secrets use software suites on par with those of eminent archaeological schools, the better to discern the will of their chthonic progenitor. Even those who practice the bizarre sorceries of the clan have a use for technology, though it often carries the trappings of historical anachronism, such as ritual daggers that can be smuggled through security checkpoints or counter-technologies that allow a Kindred to evade a pursuer like a wisp of smoke on the wind.
The write-up isn’t bad, but it’s disappointing. After the various mentions that V20 and its Companion would update the setting from a technological point of view, it looks like the suggested answer to “How do young, modern kindred use modern technology?” is “Barely at all!”. Maybe it’s elsewhere in the chapter, but I was hoping for more on what happens if (e.g.) someone up-Pyramid finds out some young Tremere have been maintaining a Thaumaturgical secrets wiki that they didn’t even realize would be a big deal; or if Facebook’s facial-recognition algorithm shows a recent picture of a three-years-embraced neonate to someone who thought she was dead; or a Caitiff who has been secretly logging on to continue checking his social network feeds since his embrace just foolishly +1’d something; and so on.
I was especially hoping for things on how neonates comfortable with modern technology interact with the hegemony of the ancient elders. If Joe Methuselah, Prince of Oldtimeygrad, spent uncounted centuries in a world where long-distance, instantaneous communication was a jealously-guarded secret of blood magic, how does he deal with the Anarch rabble or Sabbat shovelheads or even up-and-coming local Camarilla politicos all being incredibly comfortable with the thousand-thousand means of communication they can access–or carry on their person–without him knowing? How do neonates acculturated to a low-privacy, sharing-oriented modern day adapt to the Masquerade traditions of the modern nights?
Obviously, this isn’t strictly the province of the Indie clan write-ups, but I was hoping to see some hint of that. The Giovanni section is pretty awesome, but I made this face when I saw the rest: :/
Also, maybe I’m reading too much into it, but the Ravnos write-up seems to lean uncomfortably toward characterizing them as freewheeling “gypsy” types.
+1 to this. The wiki example would result in a dumb dead neonate, but facial-recognition software is getting big; ancillae eschewing technology they’re unfamiliar with is as much a defense as it is discomfort, but it marks them to the kine (and accelerates their departure from human society).
I’d love it the whole “vampires are frozen in time” aspect were re-examined, or at least not portrayed as monolithic. Yes, vampires must battle against stasis. Yes, it’s troublesome, especially in regards to technology. But some Kindred – especially anarchs – get by with embracing (!) the elements of humanity that are essentially timeles – Smiling Jack with his biker’s leathers and the like. Things like an SQL database or wiki projects aren’t easy to comprehend, but they’re not impossible, either. Elders are hoary and not prone to compromise due to pride, but the smart ones are at least slightly adaptable.
The Ravnos one is just kind of uninspired. “gimmicks and gewgaws”? The clan’s Discipline is BASED on illusion and gimmick. Pre-paid cell phones and calling card scams are enormous in India, and have ties to organized crime in the US. Are you seriously telling me that the Ravnos are “too self-sufficient” to want a piece of that? And we’re going back to the old traveler theme, are we? That’s not necessarily bad, but technology helps there, too. “GPS” aside, smartphones do things like tell you traffic, identify the fastest route to a location, give you a Google street view of locations, identify packed areas where feeding will be harder or easier, pull up online guides to the city or town…they pretty perfectly aid someone who’s unfamiliar with the location in behaving like a native. The Ravnos eschew that because it’s useless and unreliable and because the clan turns its nose up at them? Since when does the Western part of the clan give a shit what the Eastern part think?
The Ravnos Revised clanbook did a superb job of reinterpreting the clan and making them sly, suave tricksters with a tinge of nihilism at their core. Gangrel-lite just doesn’t cut it.
“The wiki example would result in a dumb dead neonate,”
Just to clarify, I meant a private wiki, not something that a WoD civilian could stumble across. The main thrust being that just as vampires are far outnumbered by humanity, elders are far outnumbered by the higher generations. The defense against humanity has been secrecy; the defense against the younger vampires has been pitting them against each other in vampire politics so that they’re unable to present a unified front. Attempting to subvert this paradigm is part of what makes the Anarchs so novel, in-setting. What happens when increasingly, neonates are bringing large-group-collaboration sensibilities with them into kindred society? What happens when, instead of hiding their mystical discoveries in heavy grimoires, secure in their protected havens, Tremere neonates start sharing them with one another? Not just face-to-face, but with little politically-aware restraint?
Vampire society is built in part around the idea of the city as a discrete unit. Until the last couple of centuries, mortal society agreed with that. Even until very recently, you only had to worry about cutting physical phone lines and maybe dominating a postal worker, if you wanted to limit communication outside of your domain. Now, you’d need to create a large-scale power outage and hope that no vampire in the city thought to invest in a sat-phone. This threatens the Way Things Have Been: It’s harder to convince your childe that the next city over is a brutal nighttime hellhole thanks to the predations of your ancient rival whom your childe must help you destroy, if said childe is best internet pals with a couple of other neonates and a well-treated ghoul from said city.
“got bruha primgen to pose for a pic http://bit.ly/oGa97x #friendlyelders #nightlife #adorable”
The Followers of Set probably could get good use out of preservation technologies, for books, scrolls, or artifacts. Probably does not need a whole paragraph but maybe to include in the last ones.
You say that the Assamites are good at defeating security technology, and then almost dismiss the idea that they have any need to. The Assassins have been fighting humans and Kindred for thousands of years. They’ve optimized themselves to target the living/unliving. Many of their Disciplines are useless against technology. That gives elders with the sense to hire high-tech advice new ways of protecting themselves.
No, the private security force can’t hear the Assassin coming. So instead of expecting them to, a smart elder would set up a hidden network of loudspeakers sending out a subsonic hum, each with a microphone listening to it. As each functional mic in turn stops hearing anything, the computer can track the exact location of the Assamite using Silence of Death. Or what about a network of dual cameras, one visual and one thermographic, linked to a computer looking for a human silhouette without a human heat signature? Obfuscate won’t do anything against that. Those kinds of passive tracking measures could be linked to all sorts of nasty countermeasures – flash-bangs to disorientate the target (imagine what those would do to a Kindred using Auspex 1), automated flame-throwers, even mines. Human guards might be the least of the Assassin’s problems. Yes, all this would take a lot of cash, but the elders who are the Assamites’ preferred targets usually have that in spades.
Does Obfuscate work on those watching on the other end of the camera? Don’t have my books on me at work.
Obfuscate does work against electronic monitoring as well as physical observation.
V20 p. 184 “Since Obfuscate clouds the mind of the viewer, vampires can’t use it to hide their presence from electronic or mechanical devices. Video and photo cameras, for example, capture the vampire’s image accurately. Even so, the person using, say, her cell phone to record an Obfuscated vampire will still have her mind impacted by the power, and she won’t see the Kindred’s image until she views the video at a later date (if even then)”
It doesn’t work against electronic observation. It works against _people_ observing using electronics. I suggested that the dual visual/thermographic cameras be linked to a _computer_ looking for a human silhouette without a human heat signature. The computer could then trigger an automated countermeasure or simply put a flashing red dot on a map pinpointing the Assamite’s location.
“Most of the clans have a distinct specialty, something that no other clan does with the capacity that they do”. In the Assamites’ case, they’re optimized for stealth predation of (un)living targets, with minds that can be influenced, and flesh and blood that can be burned and boiled. Computer-controlled defences are an example of how technology can neutralise a specialized advantage or even turn it into a liability. (Like the microphones detecting Silence of Death). Technology is moving in that direction – there is already a debate about the the ethical issues of giving the next generation of military drones independent decision-making abilities. A paranoid elder isn’t going to be troubled by ethical issues.
If it put a flashing dot on a map, the people looking still wouldn’t see it since, you know, their minds are clouded from the Obfuscate. They would simply think the computer was malfunctionong or giving a false alarm. While the computer itself would see the Obfuscated person, the people looking at the computer would be affected by the Obfuscate. So, using Obfuscate is still an effective way of sneaking past security, since security still relies on humans, and their cloudable minds.
In the opening section, I’d like to see some referrance to how technology advances more per year now then it dit in whole centuries past. Plenty of examples are available: the mobile phone is what, 10 yrs old now? Already it’s been replaced by the smart phone. The PC is current, but laptops and tablets have taken over much of it’s market. And these technologies are recent. Very recent. An elder could well be proud that he has finally gotten the hang of this internet thing, only to realise that his childe made a video of him typing with two fingers and placed it on Youtube for all to see.
Well maybe not that, but you know what I mean.
This age, the information age, gives the younger generation a chance they never had before: one-up their elders by the power of communication… and sheer mass of information.
It’d be great to see some more text on this angle.
As for the independents:
For the Assamites, I’d like to see how they use techonology to thwart security systems, and not just Quitus (and Obfuscate). Scanners, jammers, close-cuircut video loops, etc.
The Giovanni… Perfect.
Ravnos. I can see RAvnos use smartphones to keep up to speed on the social media. What better way is there between Ravnos to share tips, blackmailable secrets or warnings?
I can see the Setites use techonolgy to enhance the reach of their cults. Beyond that, great stuff here too.
Afterthought: I’d love to see a section on how the various disciplines are affected/challanged/enhanced by technology. That’d really be an eye opener I think.
“Well-written, but somewhat disappointing” sums it up pretty well. I don’t know the rest of the chapter, but working from this excerpt I would imagine that the Camarilla would invest and expand the modern technologies on a large (= world) scale, with the other clans following suit.
Why? Because the advancement of technology esp. since the release of 3rd edition has be become the direct concern of the MASQUERADE! With cameras everywhere and in every mobile, with every single person being able to record sightings of Vampires, Werewolves and the like and instantly sharing this “undeniable proof” with millions of mortals everywhere, with vampire hunters being able to connect and share their information about the Kindred and individual vampires alike the Camarilla MUST have dealt with these technologies early on, or at least caught up until now. Because there is no other way to protect the Masquerade than to work with all of the media and social sites, spreading misinformation, calling out “This is SO fake” to Youtube videos etc.
To be able to react to upcoming threats on the internets, the Camarilla MUST invest in new communications, allowing vampires who are damned to miss half a day anyway in sleep to “instantenously” update and react to everything that happened while they were “away”.
Communication is POWER. And so technology has become POWER of a dimension unheard of before.
I even see a possible, neat twist to the usual “the Camarilla is in control of everything”: So, maybe the Camarilla elders ignored the new technologies, and of course they didn’t listen to those rare ancillae and neonates that tried to convince them to re-think technology.
So, the Camarilla fell behind on the technology scale, with two of the UNALIGNED clans taking the lead:
The GIOVANNI via the financial angle (microtransactions, global markets, technological revolution in all banks) leading to or adding to the current cold-hearted turbo-capitalism of investment banking
and
the SETITES via the biggest driving force of our modern world: porn and entertainment, leading to our current cold and abusive “amusing ourselves to death” world full of taboo websites, easy access snuff and reality soaps.
Seeing and understanding that the Camarilla has to catch up on technology, the huge advantage of the Giovanni and Setites in that field (with well established contacts to web providers, media conglomerates etc.) led to a new, if kinda forced “rearrangement” of clan relations.
On the one hand, it may be possible that the Giovanni and Setites split the new markets early on, thus increasing their strength. On the other hand, these two clans could now compete for whatever the Camarilla is willing to pay for protecxtion of the Masquerade, control of the internet, supervision of conspiracy theorists forums and whistleblower platforms etc.
Sounds kinda more interesting thanh “yeah, vampires don’t adapt well. And whatever we wrote before holds true even more for the independant clans”.
It’s not just cellphone cameras, either. What about CSI: Masquerade?
Okay, maybe it needs to be called something else. But we need some kinds of rules or guidelines for modern forensics, as used by the Kindred themselves. Do skin flakes from Kindred leave recognizable DNA traces? Do they degrade once they’re no longer a part of the Kindred’s body, and if so, how fast? Does it depend on the chronological age of the Kindred concerned? What about vitae? Unlike in Requiem, where it reverts to whatever blood the Kindred ingested after leaving the body, in Masquerade I think it has a distinct biochemical signature (can’t recall the exact book, but I think one of the old books mentioned similarities to the platelets in earthworm blood). Has that changed for v20? If not, could vitae traces identify a Kindred through conventional DNA analysis? When a vampire licks a wound closed, is a saliva-analogue left behind? Is DNA evidence admissible in a vampire “court”? (Probably varies from domain to domain, but a brief exploration of the idea might be useful). Is it used by Justicars, Archons, or Templars (again, probably varies by the individuals concerned, but some indication of how widespread the use is might help).
Ugh, that strikes me as a tad too specific. Still, a note that Kindred don’t leave many physical traces behind might be nice.
Well, since ‘Status and station win every time’, I guess Justicar, Archons and Templars would ignore them unless useful, which would be ordinary modus operandi for powerful Kindred.
However, I second the need for a CSI: Masquerade – sort of. If I remember correctly, there are a couple of Thaumaturgy rituals in New York by Night which would be awesome for a CSI: Tremere chronicle, so this topic has been at least tangentially mentioned in the past. You know what would be great? Some mention of “Cainite Physiology and Forensics”, perhaps as another In-Character paper by Douglas Netchurch himself.
A prevailing theme about technology is that it gives young Kindred an advantage over their elders. But the “elders can’t handle modern technology” shtick can be overdone. They wouldn’t BE elders if they weren’t smart, cunning and adaptable. The wise ones probably have retainers specifically tasked with briefing them on the latest developments – Solomon Birch in Requiem is a good example. Once an elder knows _what_technology can do – he can hire a minion to worry about the “how” – he can use it as yet another tool of power and control.
Take cell ‘phones. Any neonate Embraced in the last ten years will carry one as naturally as he wears a wristwatch. They’re so used to having them that most won’t even consider that they’re carrying a tracking-device-cum-bug with them everywhere they go. There was a case in Israel recently where a husband caught his unfaithful wife by using software which turned her cell into a bug. Who needs Auspex 6+ when you can listen in on your subjects (and locate them within two meters), by forking out a couple of grand on equipment?
Technology can accomplish things that, in the past, were only possible through high-level Disciplines. You’re almost taking a “who needs technology when you have Disciplines” approach, but in many cases, it’ll be the other way around.
Especially for neonates.
One of the things I loved about V20: 1e Vampire had this theme of the elders oppressing you and being infinitely more powerful; you were the tiniest cog in the machine. And yeah, that’s a neat theme, but V20 altered that. Coordination and cooperation that was unheard-of in nights past are possible now; why worry about an ambush when you can both Skype chat?
Between neonates forming coalition power blocs to check the ancillae and elders (thus, giving PCs a reason to band together) and neonates having the tech to make up the difference, you get a distribution of power that’s far more egalitarian (and thus, appealing to players). I REALLY LIKE THAT CHANGED THEME. I want to see more of it!
Minor typo: “(…)campers that do double duty is mobile haven fortresses(..)” should read as “”(…)campers that do double duty AS mobile haven fortresses(..)”
General Magic: Do vampiric magics simply rely on paper and arcane components? Is a PDF scan of a Thaumaturgical sigil lacking some important portion that a hand-written copy would not? An elder setting up wards on his chantry may have put protections in place against theft, but not against smartphone cameras wirelessly sending out high-res images of texts. Would neonates set up such protections, or would they simply keep their magic digitally? In a world where technology is built to be replaced every 2 years, why wouldn’t you use such things as ritual components? Sure, I can see a Setite Sorcery ritual that removes evidence of vice from the internet at large, but it’s a mighty expensive ritual, and requires giving them your cell phone and Facebook password (the cell phone is the symbolic link for the ritual, the passwords are to plant more evidence in the future to keep them coming back, but that’s just how I’d run things).
Assamites: This writeup makes total sense, but needs a little bit of expansion. Silent, invisible killers don’t really need technology past something sharp that fits between ribs. Too much Quietus in a high security facility might get the notice of IT (“Hey, why do the camera mics keep dropping out tonight? Tell the security team they need to communicate via radio until we can fix the issue.”), but otherwise they have everything they need. Their only real weakness is large coordinated events. An individual assassin can handle his target, but a big group spread out to cover an area can start having issues when radio silence keeps occurring when it shouldn’t. Is Bob not responding because he’s popped Quietus, or because he’s been taken out? Assamites are great for single-target surgical jobs. Others can handle bigger jobs that require group communication better, and more and more often you will find that organizations rely more on a process or system than one particular figure.
Giovanni: The clan spread artwork features a Giovanni holding a smartphone. The writeup says they have little use for them. Besides being inherently useful items, they’re also status symbols. I’d expect Giovanni elders to purchase the latest top-end smartphone 2-4 times a year, even if they didn’t know how to use them fully, to say they had it. I might also expect their family database, as described, to be a good source of fun for the younger kindred and ghouls, making entries on behalf of long dead members or adding entries for newly raised zombies (“Zombie Paul Dunsirn #28’s Blog: Itchy. Hungry.”). Also, missing the obvious pun “Facebook of the dead”.
Elders: Can we say that the main reason elders aren’t good with technology is that they’ve been in torpor for the last 60+ years? A personal aversion to change keeps them from adopting it, and they were last in a culture where 4-function calculators were a myth. An elder that wants to catch up certainly should be able to, though I think that most of the elders that won’t are still asleep somewhere fairly well-hidden. On that note, how many Sabbat are getting ahold of advanced archaeological equipment to try and track down hidden underground places where elders rest?
Genetics: The DNA question brought up earlier is a good one. DNA decays fairly quicky after death, so does DNA analysis work on Cainites? If someone analyzes blood spilled from a vampire, does it show up as the vampire’s DNA, the original owner’s, a mix of the last few meals, or is it damaged and unusable (which is fairly suspicious that fresh blood is so useless for this)?
+1 Facebook of the Dead. Love it. A must add to the Giovanni entry.
“On that note, how many Sabbat are getting ahold of advanced archaeological equipment to try and track down hidden underground places where elders rest?”
Yes! This is brilliant! Transylvania Jones: Diablerists of the Lost Ark! Also, I’m imagining the which-cup-is-the-grail scene in The Last Crusade, except it’s a Setite Methuselah’s heart sealed in a canopic jar, hidden amongst several decoy canopic jars filled with something that reacts explosively if exposed to air.
Technology is like any obscure branch of knowledge, particularly a fast-moving one. It can be difficult to keep up, but some things are easier to grasp than others. User-friendliness is key. My mother doesn’t check her own email but can use a digital camera just fine. Elders way behind the tech curve might catch up when voice recognition matures, because now they can make the computer do what they want by shouting at it, and that’s something they’re very well versed in.
I imagine that many elders would already be used to operating technology through shouting–at ghouls. When things have advanced to the point that your existing ghouls are overwhelmed, welp, sorry Renfield, we’ve had some great decades together, but you’ve been replaced.
The increasingly-panicked efforts of an elder’s technology-proxies to keep up with rapid progress for fear of losing master’s favor/blood could make for good gaming, either for a group playing the ghouls themselves, or as a delightfully unsubtle indicator of some NPC’s callous inhumanity.
True, indeed.
I enjoy this, but I wish there was more detail such as on the assamites……such as can they use their level 5 poison/acid spit to slowly eat through say a security door? I ask this…because it can turn bone one of the most durable substances in existant to a liquid sludge. Metal breaks down over ages..it rusts..it becomes brittle…falls apart. Bone has this habit of staying incredibly tough and being preserved for hundreds of years to come. If it can turn bone into goo…then Id wager it could albeit slowly eat through a steel grate or begin to eat through or weaken a door. This may not be the proper place for such a comment…….as it involves a discipline, but at the same time Id like them to explain “HOW” they subvert such securities…
Good question. There are two ways of looking at it, I suppose. (1) the Discipline is a mystical attack that targets living tissue (or tissue that used to be living, if you want to be pedantic). Bone might be more durable than metal, but it’s living and metal isn’t, so Quietus affects it more strongly than metal. (2) The acid generated by the Discipline is _created_through mystical means but works through conventional chemical reactions, in which case metal might be vulnerable to it.
Chemically, bones and Metal are apples and oranges. There are some chemicals compounds that won’t eat through glass or plastic but that will destroy any organic matter (including bones) that they are exposed to.
“what use would a Giovanni necromancer have for a smartphone while he’s summoning the souls of the dead? “
If this were followed up with a good example of a Giovanni using tech, I’d find it a good statement. But since the Giovanni in the V20 book is holding a smartphone (and assuming it’s more than JUST a wallpaper), I think dismissing it cuts the feet out from one of the greatest updates V20 can/has made: The update of technology in the CWoD.
To be honest, I do like the idea of vampires being stuck in a static mindset. In the old days, it didn’t mean much, but those willing to adapt to new technologies (iron, steel, printing press, firearms, steam engines, telephones, the internet…) meant that elders who found making a connection with new technologies had a reason to use Ghouls and/or embrace those who could help them with the new technology that gave them an upper hand. Even if the 8th Gen. Elder vampire can’t figure out how to use the internet, he’s survived long enough to understand that it’s important and he’s using a well-trusted Childe or Ghoul to keep up to date on these things (online finances, international news, Vampire Four-Square…)
And maybe that’s one of the benefits of having ghouls too–they aren’t as likely to be left in this state of social/mental torpor. It makes them one of the Vampire’s greatest assets, as well as potential weaknesses.
So, while technology and Vampire Magick doesn’t really mix well (look at just how weak Technomancy is–it’s basically anything a good hacker can do, and a better version of “GoToMyPC.com.” But at least there’s some precedent that it CAN work, and perhaps the first group that can find out how to make it just as powerful as any other Discipline just might get the mightiest upper-hand of all…
Of course, the flaw to this thinking is that Technology is as, if not more, important than the “Old Ways.” But other than the most monstrous of technological advances (which, in the CWoD may not have been so mundane as we would be lead to believe), the Old Ways are certainly doing a mighty fine job. Sure, Firearms and The Printing Press have been massively helpful to the human herd, but what has it really done for the Elders? How important is Air Conditioning to a vampire who isn’t bothered by heat or cold? How important are automobiles when you never have to leave your haven? How much do you care about DNA modification when you can modify your own body simply by manipulating the essence of Blood through your system?
Oh, sure, some Elder or Neonate may have pet projects, may dabble in their toys and have curiosities… and it may be a help give them the edge at times, but in the end, hundreds of years of experience understanding the social dynamics of the Vampire society, understanding the humans as their herds, and mastering their own powers is always going to be the greatest weapon and way of a vampire.
And while there will be the occasional vampire who fully “embraces” technology, I think that there comes some pride/arrogance/mind-block for most vampires that anything after their embrace is simply nonsense and a fad that will pass.
So, I’m of two thoughts at once with Vampires:
• Elder vampires cannot fully embrace modern technology, and they lead the direction of the clans. Until the Elders are of the 21st century, the clans just won’t fully embrace the “new ways” themselves, but may leave it to their Ghouls and Neonates to handle.
• However, Technology is a new passive/active enemy of the Kindred. Whether they want to accept it or not, their Masquerade is not prepared for the new Technology, and unless they act actively, they’re apt to be “outed”, or destroyed by the masses before they know it.
(reposted at: http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=54151 )
An image called “V:tM Unholy Allies” by Brom.
Here’s an image off of the White Wolf gallery called “V:tM Unholy Allies” by Brom. showing a Nos using a computer in a sewer, surrounded by rats. 😀
Lots of good commentary here! Let me give a little more insight on what I’ve been trying to achieve.
This is a much harder chapter to write than I had originally projected. My first impression of the chapter’s organization was that it would be unconventional, almost a survey of “bullet points” about how the Kindred interact with technology.
In practice, though, that made for a pretty disjointed pile of information.
I agree 100% with what you guys are saying about the actual information here. It’s not bad, it’s just not inspiring, and supplementary game material should inspire. The Giovanni are the shining spot, as you guys seem to agree, and it’s obvious why: The section gives a functional overview plus a few “leads” that can be turned directly into flexible stories.
Some of the feedback you guys have given is a little too specific. For example, some of Jez’ ideas are really cool as game details, but really narrow for the purposes of an overview chapter. Cruball calls out some exacting details for how poison spit interacts with metal, for example — that to me sounds like something a Storyteller should define on the fly as it relates to the story, much more appropriate to a ruling than a rule.
However, the idea of CSI: Masquerade is a great example of a much more flexible topic spectrum, and one that will certainly find a home in the chapter. As Andreas suggest, the Setites and porn is a perfect link, too. These, I think are much more in line with the intent of the chapter: Provide neat ideas for showing the overlap of vampires and technology.
(Remember, to, that until you see the whole draft, the pieces on the blog here are excerpts. Some stuff stands out for its missing information, but that’s okay. The full chapter usually addresses the missing pieces you’re talking about. I just want to give you a sneak peek at the cool stuff that’s forming or to solicit some input on what you want when I’ve got a question that I think the player should answer.)
Thanks a lot for the insightful commentary here and on pointing out some new directions to use. I’ll hopefully have the chapter complete and posted tomorrow. There may be a bit of a delay since some of the existing work makes its way to the trash, but that’s okay. These are first drafts, after all.
“As Andreas suggest, the Setites and porn is a perfect link, too.”
Because it hit me as I read this: They don’t have to run the porn sites themselves (although they obviously could). If they want something involving less active effort (i.e. no need to keep posting new porn), they could just run an advertising network catering to an adult interests site clientele. Let clients sign up via web forms, sit back, and reap deliciously blackmailable IP addresses (and other identifying information), all correlated with specific prurient interests.
Heck, there’s no reason that only Setites would do this. Nosferatu archetypically love information-gathering, don’t they?
I see what you mean about too much detail. As a more general theme, how about “Unable to adapt to a world of sudden and extreme change”? The Kindred developed their specialized strengths in a world which in some ways was as static and unchanging as they were. An ancient Roman would have found little to faze him in the 17th century, except maybe firearms. Someone from the 17th century would find the modern world terrifyingly incomprehensible. Some of the powers that have given Kindred an advantage over mortals (and/or each other) for millennia can now be countered or duplicated by technology (some specific examples in my earlier comments).
Deirdre Brooks wrote “A World of Future Darkness” back in the 90s, but Margali’s letter to the Camarilla was prescient…
You don’t understand; the Masquerade will be outdated inside of thirty years. Technology has advanced to the point that nearly anyone who cares to spend the cash can identify Kindred… the Canaille possess the means to destroy us now! What will they have in five years? Ten? Twenty? Adapt, die, or get the hell out of the way
Jez, that’s one of my favorite quotes from that book. It just strikes so true even in the context of the normal World of Darkness, without the Cybrepunk edge added. Answering that quote I think would be the best way to approach this champter.
I completely agree with the sum of the comments: Not bad writing per se, but surely not what I had in mind when I thought of “vampires+tech”. Two points I want to make that I think was missed:
I think a passive reference to Assamite’s Seat of Copper & Lightning and Seat of Mirrors (the Children’s experts on subjects like computers, technology, information & surveillance) is right, and
Ravnos’ stereotypical perception is of a thief and vagapond, a total chaos creature. Imagine what someone like that could do with a palmtop and the appropriate knowledge to use it. Imagine the chaos, the panic, the thievery and the mayhem he can create to the elder he wants to steal from, the Kindred he’s pissed at, the casino he wants to rob (or use the equipment to calculate a winning streak in Texas hold ’em) and the government building he has a contract to bring down…
Consider Arab Spring and revolutions in other countries, like Malaysia. Governments can be overthrown by Facebook and text-messaging. If mortal governments with the best technology and complete control of communication networks can be overthrown before they can even react, what chance to Kindred princes have? Sure, Princes have been overthrown since the dawn of time, but now they can be overthrown using technology they don’t even understand, and the only way to exploit it is to embrace young Kindred… the exact type of people who would rebel.
Moreso than porn, I imagine a Setite Neonate running a World of Warcraft guild.
“If you want to raid with us and get teh phat lewtz, you gotta forget your family, your friends, and your life. I want to see you grinding raids mats 40 hours per week and be on time for the raids. You log off when we tell you to log off. You’re either an addict or a noob.” And then teaching his guild about how Set can give fulfillment back to their lives…
isn’t far-fetched at all.
Re: Assamites
“Among the viziers and sorcerers of the clan, technology is no substitute for the time-tested resources that contain mystic research. These jealously guarded secrets are much safer, the amr reason, in physical books than an individual can protect than on easily copied or smuggled digital media.”
Isn’t there a passage in clanbook Assamite that says the exact opposite of this? I remember that the Assamites have their entire blood magic library on a stack of CD-roms that are thaumaturgically passworded to prevent copying, but that is smuggled around the world for Assamites to research from without returning to Alamut.
I try not to post unless I have something constructive to say, but having finally gotten around to catching up on this site, I need to vent a pet peeve, in regards to this particular section.
It seems this article has confirmed my worst fears: White Wolf still won’t acknowledge the modern world in any meaningful fashion. In OWoD it didn’t really matter, because the net was so new. But when I picked up Damnation City and got a bunch of double-speak that basically amounted to “ignore modern technology and social networking phenomena because it ruins the isolationist, oppressive atmosphere of the World of Darkness,” I just about beat my head into a wall.
When V20 advertised that the setting would be updating itself for the modern age, I was gleeful. I thought “finally, we’ll get a version of vampiric society that’s not modelled on a dystopian version of the early 90s”. Well, that didn’t happen, at least not in V20 itself, and now the V20 Companion excerpt here just clinches it.
Rather than something bold and innovative with their setting, acknowledging how the world has changed, and how the WoD must change to adapt, it’s more of White Wolf sticking their fingers in their ears, chanting over and over again “No one uses this stuff in the World of Darkness. Vampires are static and dont’ get new technology.”
Except the game their so intent on us playing is as recently embraced neonates, and quite frankly, anyone embraced in the last 5 years… is going to know this stuff. Unless White Wolf has gone the final step and is denying that the WoD has even INVENTED stuff like Youtube, smartphones, and Twitter. Which honestly, I wouldn’t put it past them at this juncture.
This technology exists. The way it’s changed our world is irrevocable, and no amount of wishful thinking will rewind the clock so you can keep the World of Darkness exactly as it was. It doesn’t matter how “static” a vampire is; when you’re dealing in power-brokering, high finance, and enforcing a conspiracy of secrecy to shield your own kind: the Kindred *Must* embrace and use this technology.
Okay, sure, Elders aren’t going to run out and buy a smartphone, or sign up for an IT class. But first, they’ll dominate minions who can do this stuff. Then they’ll create Ghouls who can be more trusted. And then as the paranoia sinks in, and they see neonates doing things they can’t, they *will* find some way to at least *grasp* the basics of the modern world simply because they will not lot a bunch of young upstarts be able out manuever them. Sure, it might have taken a few years, but all these major changes started in 2005-06, and it’s 2011. After a few Elders got upstaged in financial and politcial arenas by a few coteries who pooled their resources, you can bet your @$$ the other Elders sent a ghoul out to pick up a copy of “Iphone for Dummies” and spent a night or two, figuring out just how the heck they’re doing all this.
You don’t have to throw your precious setting out the window. Just acknowledge that the Elders are trying to catch up, and explain to us how. There. You get to keep your sense of continuity, and we, the readers, get what we want: Vampire for Age of the Smartphone.
Because, you know what you are if you don’t do this? You’re the embodiment of the very same stasis you accuse the elders of succumbing to.
Just for your information: A lot of people don’t use much technology. And they are fine with it.
Many Elders have learned to drive cars, they may have learned to write emails, or not. So what? There still is a whole world our there that is not virtual. For Elders that is probably the world that counts. The aforementioned Tremere neonate will get his head chopped off, not because the threat of cooperation among the apprentices, but because the Tremere Elder cannot assess whether this is a threat or not and will err on the side of tradition.
Also, I don’t see much of a problem with the masquerade. Even in the real Internet there are so many photos and videos of vampires that any more would hardly count as proof.
Activity on the facebook account of a dead person is hardly unusual.