Bucking Broncos! [Monday Meeting Notes]

Parting the Waters from the Ex3 Jumpstart by Gunship Revolution


First, for those of you following what I never intended to be a saga: it turns out I have not just a cold or the flu, but bronchitis. The doctor has me on antibiotics, and I am actually feeling better. So, hopefully I only have to ride this bucking broncho for a while longer. Thanks to everybody who sent in “get well” messages!

The other bronco the gang here at Onyx Path have been riding for a couple of days, and was the subject of much of our meeting today.

(The official one. My meeting with Eddy was mostly talking about how David Tennant’s Doctor parsed with his Purple Man on Jessica Jones.)

I’m referring to the upset in our community after the Vampire and Mage interactive fiction Preludes were released last week by Asmodee under license from the new White Wolf Publishing. If you want to look it all up, the details are out there. For us, Matt McElroy and I have been talking with WWP about this issue since last week and expect to keep doing so for a while.

It has become clear, though, that some confusion and misapprehensions still exist as to Onyx Path’s relationship with the new White Wolf Publishing, as well as how we both relate to the original White Wolf that so many of you started out with.

So: we have the original White Wolf, founded by Stew Wieck and Mark Rein*Hagen. We worked hard and we played hard, and created a huge amount of games and supplements and elbowed ourselves into 2nd place in the RPG biz, but 1st place in dark hearts everywhere. I say “we” as I was there, with Stew for years before the partnership was created, and was part of the management team throughout.

Things got rough though as game and book stores start closing, and at the same time, the time our community would have spent on tabletop gaming gets chopped by the time folks are discovering computer MMOs. WW decides it needs to evolve into electronic gaming, which is hard to do when your revenue is dropping like a rock off a cliff, so WW gets a bunch of vikings drunk and we all wind up married the next morning.

In other, more sensible words, White Wolf made a deal to “merge” with CCP, an Icelandic computer game company with a successful space MMO called EVE. They begin work on the WoD MMO. Meanwhile, a bunch of us keep the tabletop gaming part of WW rolling.

But, eventually, the sucking black hole of need that was the WoD MMO demands every WWer be part of it, and until a bunch of us convince CCP that a 20th Anniversary Edition of Vampire: the Masquerade is a good idea, and they see the community reaction, there’s a very good chance that WW, as a publisher would not have lasted. But actually, the reaction is so strong that Eddy and I can convince CCP to let us do even more books!

The euphoria of which lasts the several weeks that end up with a huge bunch of layoffs of people I care about, and, fed up with the situation, I leave CCP and then start Onyx Path with a license agreement from CCP so that Onyx can do tabletop versions of the WW Intellectual Properties (WoD, nWoD called now Chronicles of Darkness, and Exalted). In effect, I’ve licensed the game lines I helped create.

So that’s nice. (I mean, it really is). But please note that we do not own nor control the WW IPs.

(I wanted to point out the timing up there, though, because it’s important to note that Onyx Path was not a junior company to CCP, and not spun off from CCP. Onyx Path has always been solely owned by me and our relationship with CCP was solely as licensee. We own Scion and the Trinity game lines outright as I bought them from them, and we are co-owners of the Scarred Lands, another purchase but this time with Nocturnal Media. We also are in creative partnerships that are effectively licenses with Pugmire and Cavaliers of Mars, two totally new games totally unconnected to any iteration of WW.)



Pugmire Dog Dice illo by Pat Loboyko



(CCP really only wanted us to shepherd the WW IPs and good name and keep the community engaged until they could pull back the curtain and bring everybody to the WoD MMO. They didn’t actually want a lot of licenses because they wanted everyone to be working on the WoD MMO, not a bunch of difficult to manage tabletop RPGs. We did that for them, for a while at least.)

But, as Onyx Path rolls along for about four years of reviving, rejuvenating, and renovating, the WW IPs, CCP decides that they must pull back their efforts to focus on EVE, cancel the WoD MMO (and fire a bunch more people I care about), and finally they sell the WW IPs to a Swedish game company called Paradox.

Paradox revives the White Wolf Publishing name, and paw print, and through some level of corporate structuring, stick a company behind the name. (You’ll have to ask the new WWP some time how they are structured; I don’t know nor want to, honestly). They bring over a couple of their employees and those guys hire in a couple more folks. None of them is a creator or executive from the original White Wolf so it was not anyone at the new WWP who greenlit the previous computer games or books or, well anything, from the original WW days.

Their intention is licensing. Their intention is to get the WW IPs out there so that there is some sort of WW IP project in every medium.

Onyx Path has the license from the new WWP to create tabletop RPGs and accessories related to, and which assist in playing, tabletop RPGs for WoD, Chronicles of Darkness, and Exalted. We are one of their rapidly growing cadre of licensees. We make the sorts of things their license allows us to, and we go through an approval process with them. I can not ethically talk the numbers or details of the contracts, but our deal is a pretty typical license agreement.

What we, as a licensee, are not involved with, is how the new WWP grows their license portfolio. I mean, some of these deals are bound up in their own NDAs, and the rest WWP has no obligation to inform us about until they want to, or we hear about it like all of you. In the current situation, we had no idea of who was writing the Asmodee projects until they were released and all hell broke loose.


Changeling 20th illustration by Melissa Uran


Our reality, and our community’s, is that the new WWP is actively working towards building media awareness of the WW IPs, currently focused on the World of Darkness. They are going to be as careful as they can to work with the sorts of licensees that can accurately bring the WoD setting to their medium, but ultimately the sheer potential size of what they intend has a really good chance to mean that there will be decisions made that will run the gamut of our community’s personal reactions from thrilled beyond belief to appalled beyond measure.

Our community will need to decide how to respond, or not, based on individual personal standards and conscience. If a project comes out bad, or amazing, how far do you go to support the next one? If the content offends you, do you avoid that writer, or that developer, or that company, or that IP in the future? If people are hired that you have issues with, do you skip that project, boycott anything connected to the new White Wolf, or send emails of protest? Any, or all, it’s your personal call.

So, to recap: Onyx Path is one of a growing set of licensees of the White Wolf IPs that are owned and controlled by the new White Wolf Publishing based in Sweden. Onyx Path does not have any say over projects created by other licensees or how the new WWP conducts its business.

Hope that clears a few things up, and as always if you have questions, please feel free to post them in the comments.





I’m working on the KS pages this week for sure as the antibiotics kick in. Things look good, and we are all for starting the KS in Feb/early March so long as the process of pulling the KS together cooperates. If so, then Monarchies of Mau KS would be next, after Gambit.






Looking for our Deluxe or Prestige Edition books? Here’s the link to the press release we put out about how Onyx Path is now selling through Indie Press Revolution: https://theonyxpath.com/press-release-onyx-path-limited-editions-now-available-through-indie-press-revolution/

You can now order wave 2 of our Deluxe and Prestige print overrun books, including Deluxe Mage 20th Anniversary, and Deluxe V20 Dark Ages!




From the massive Chronicles of Darkness: Dark Eras main book, we have pulled this single chapter, Dark Eras: Doubting Souls (Hunter 1690-1695 Salem). Immigrants and tribes struggled to co-exist on the Eastern Seaboard in the ever-expanding Colonies. Violent clashes, supernatural beliefs, and demonic influences spelled disaster for Salem Village and its surrounding towns, while others fought werewolves and vampires on the frontier. With so much at risk, only god-fearing men and women were deemed innocent — and those were few indeed.

Available in PDF and physical copy PoD versions on DTRPG: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/204372/Dark-Eras-Doubting-Souls-Hunter-the-Vigil


From the massive Chronicles of Darkness: Dark Eras main book, we have pulled this single chapter, Dark Eras: The Bowery Dogs (Werewolf 1969-1979 NYC). New York City in the 1970s. Crime. Drugs. Gang violence. Vast economic disparity. And werewolves. It’s a lean, ugly time to be alive, and the lone wolf doesn’t stand a chance out there. In the end, all you really have is family.

Available in PDF and physical copy PoD versions on DTRPG: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/203762/Dark-Eras-The-Bowery-Dogs-Werewolf-the-Forsaken




The Locker is open; the Chronicles of Darkness: Hurt Locker, that is! PDF and physical copy PoDs are now available on DTRPG! http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/199275/Chronicles-of-Darkness-Hurt-Locker

Hurt Locker features:

  • Treatment of violence in the Chronicles of Darkness. Lasting trauma, scene framing, and other tools for making your stories hurt.
  • Many new player options, including Merits, supernatural knacks, and even new character types like psychic vampires and sleeper cell soldiers.
  • Expanded equipment and equipment rules.

Hurt Locker requires the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook or any other standalone Chronicles of Darkness rulebook such as Vampire: The Requiem, Werewolf: The Forsaken, or Beast: The Primordial to use.




Both the Beast: the Primordial http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/198773/Beast-The-Primordial-Condition-Cards & Promethean: the Created 2nd Edition Condition Cards http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/202619/Promethean-the-Created-2nd-Edition-Condition-Cards are now on sale on DTRPG in PDF and physical card PoD versions! Great for keeping track of the Conditions that are on your characters!




From the massive Chronicles of Darkness: Dark Eras main book, we have pulled this single chapter, Dark Eras: Ruins of Empire (Mummy 1893-1924). Perhaps the quintessential era of the mummy in the minds of Westerners, this period saw the decline of the two greatest empires of the age: British and Ottoman. Walk with the Arisen as they bear witness to the death of the Victorian age, to pivotal mortal discoveries in Egypt, and to the horrors of the Great War.

Available in PDF and physical copy PoD versions on DTRPG. http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/178801/Dark-Eras-Ruins-of-Empire-Mummy-the-Curse



From the massive Chronicles of Darkness: Dark Eras main book, we have pulled this single chapter, Dark Eras: The Sundered World (Werewolf and Mage 5500-5000 BCE). At the birth of civilization, in the shadow of the Fall, the Awakened stand as champions and protectors of the agricultural villages spread across the Balkans. In a world without a Gauntlet, where Shadow and flesh mingle, the steady taming of the world by humanity conflicts with the half-spirit children of Father Wolf.

Available in PDF and physical copy PoD versions on DTRPG. http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/202272/Dark-Eras-The-Sundered-World-Werewolf-the-Forsaken-Mage-the-Awakening



Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes for Beast: the Primordial is available now as an Advance PDF: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/202615/Night-Horrors-Conquering-Heroes

This book includes: 

  • An in-depth look at how Heroes hunt and what makes a Hero, with eleven new Heroes to drop into any chronicle.
  • A brief look at why Beasts may antagonize one another, with seven new Beasts to drop into any chronicle.
  • Rules for Insatiables, ancient creatures born of the Primordial Dream intent on hunting down Beasts to fill a hunger without end, featuring six examples ready to use in any chronicle.



The PDF and physical book PoD versions of Reap the Whirlwind, the Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition Jumpstart swirls into being on DTRPG! http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/201127/Reap-the-Whirlwind-Revised-VtR-2e

You are a vampire, a junkie. Every night, you beg and you borrow and you steal just a little more life, just a few more sweet moments. But there’s a guy at the top. The Prince. He’s got everything. The money, the secrets, the blood.

Tonight, you’re going to take it from him. Tomorrow, there’ll be hell to pay.

This updated edition of Reap the Whirlwind features revisions to match the core rulebook for Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition. Text edits and rules clarifications have also been updated.

Reap the Whirlwind Revised includes:

  • Rules for creating and playing vampires in the Chronicles of Darkness
  • The first two levels of every clan Discipline, the dark powers of the dead
  • A complete adventure by noted horror author Chuck Wendig

This new revised Reap the Whirlwind Revised includes an updated booklet, 7 condition cards, and the interactive Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition character sheet.





It is now the preordained time for Dawn of Heresies, the Mummy: the Curse novel written by internationally renowned author Brian Hodge to arise! Both PDF/electronic and physical book PoD versions are now available on DTRPG! http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/198720/Dawn-of-Heresies

Rawhead and bloody bones

Steals naughty children from their homes,

Takes them to his dirty den

And they are never seen again. 

So says the nursery rhyme that gives birth to Rawhead, the most fearsome entity to imperil the living since the infamous Roller. Once an obedient mummy by name of Benefre, a desperate bid by his cult fails in tragic fashion, and in so doing, sends him to the Devourerís waiting, corruptive maw. What remains of Benefreís ambitious soul rises again, impure and unholy, set to the execution of a scheme so baleful, it constitutes a heresy even among his own misbegotten kind.

All that stands between Rawhead and his terrible aim are a lone mummy, Kemsiyet, and what little remains of her cult following its destruction at Rawhead’s hands. Declan, her prized security aide, and Fiona, an Irish researcher only just recently inducted into the cult and its blood-soaked world, must fight both the odds and the clock in order to prevent a calamity the likes of which the world hasnít seen since the days of the mummies’ creation.

About the Author:

BRIAN HODGE is the acclaimed author of 11 novels, almost 125 short stories, and four full-length collections. His first collection, The Convulsion Factory, was ranked by critic Stanley Wiater among the 113 best books of modern horror. Heís currently wrapping up his fifth, The Immaculate Void. Among gamers, he is perhaps best known as the author of the first official Hellboy novel, On Earth as It Is in Hell.

Recent works include “The Weight of the Dead,” from Tor, and novelettes of cosmic horror in The Mammoth Book of Cthulhu and Children of Lovecraft. His oft-reprinted 2013 novella, “The Same Deep Waters as You” has recently been optioned by a London-based production studio for development for television. Brian lives in Colorado.



Open the V20 Dark Ages: Tome of Secrets now on DTRPG! Both PDF and physical book PoD versions are now available! http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/197358/V20-Dark-Ages-Tome-of-Secrets

The Tome of Secrets is a treatment of numerous topics about Cainites and stranger things in the Dark Medieval World. It’s about peeling back the curtain, and digging a little deeper. Inside, you’ll find:

• Expanded treatment of Assamite Sorcery, Koldunic Sorcery, Necromancy, and Setite Sorcery

• A look at Cainite knightly orders, faith movements, and even human witchcraft

• Letters and diaries from all over the Dark Medieval World



Travel with us all the way to the Red Planet for the Cavaliers of Mars Jumpstart: A Festival of Blades, available in PDF and PoD on DTRPG! http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/191678/A-Festival-of-Blades-A-Cavaliers-of-Mars-Jumpstart

Live, fight, and love on Mars, a world of red death and strange mystery, a world of savagery and romance.


  • A complete adventure set in one of dying Mars’ greatest remaining cities.
  • The innovative DEIMOS rules, for high-flying, swashbuckling adventure.
  • Four pre-generated player characters, ready to get into the heart of the action.





Discussing GenCon plans. August 17th – 20th, Indianapolis. Every chance the booth will actually be 20? x 30? this year that we’ll be sharing with friends. We’re looking at new displays this year, like a back drop and magazine racks for the brochure(s).

In November, we’ll be at Game Hole Con in Madison, WI. More news as we have it, and here’s their website: https://www.gameholecon.com/





And now, the new project status updates!



DEVELOPMENT STATUS FROM ROLLICKING ROSE (projects in bold have changed status since last week):

First Draft (The first phase of a project that is about the work being done by writers, not dev prep)

  • Exalted 3rd Novel by Matt Forbeck (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Trinity Continuum Core Rulebook (The Trinity Continuum)
  • Trinity Continuum: Aeon Rulebook (The Trinity Continuum)
  • M20 Gods and Monsters (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • M20 Cookbook (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • M20 Book of the Fallen (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • CtD C20 Jumpstart (Changeling: the Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Ex Novel 2 (Aaron Rosenberg) (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • C20 Novel (Jackie Cassada) (Changeling: the Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Pugmire Fiction Anthology (Pugmire)
  • Pugmire Pan’s Guide for New Pioneers (Pugmire)
  • Monarchies of Mau Early Access (Pugmire)
  • Hunter: the Vigil 2e core (Hunter: the Vigil 2nd Edition)



  • Scion: Origins (Scion 2nd Edition)
  • Scion: Hero (Scion 2nd Edition)
  • Kithbook Boggans (Changeling: the Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • VtR Half-Damned (Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition)
  • WoD Ghost Hunters (World of Darkness)


Second Draft

  • The Realm (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Dragon-Blooded (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • BtP Beast Player’s Guide (Beast: the Primordial)
  • Book of Freeholds (Changeling: the Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • V20 Dark Ages Jumpstart (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • GtS Geist 2e core (Geist: the Sin-Eaters Second Edition)



  • W20 Changing Ways (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Signs of Sorcery (Mage: the Awakening Second Edition)
  • SL Ring of Spiragos (Pathfinder – Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
  • Ring of Spiragos (5e – Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
  • SL Dagger of Spiragos (Pathfinder – Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
  • Dagger of Spiragos (5e– Scarred Lands 2nd Edition)
  • Arms of the Chosen (Exalted 3rd Edition)
  • Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition, featuring the Huntsmen Chronicle (Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition)
  • BtP Building a Legend (Beast: the Primordial)



  • V20 Beckett’s Jyhad Diary (Stretch Goal Content)
  • W20 Song of Unmaking novel (Bridges) (Werewolf: the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • CtD C20 Anthology (Changeling: the Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition)
  • Wraith: the Oblivion 20th Anniversary Edition


Post-Editing Development:

  • CtL fiction anthology (Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition)
  • VtR A Thousand Years of Night (Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition)







In Art Direction

  • Beckett’s Jyhad Diary – new stuff AD’d
  • M20 Book of Secrets – AD’d
  • W20 Pentex Employee Indoctrination Handbook
  • V20 Dark Ages Companion Gaydos finals rolling in… sketches from others rolling in.
  • Dagger of Spiragos  – AD’d
  • VTR: Thousand Years of Night
  • Cavaliers of Mars – Contracting.


Marketing Stuff


In Layout

  • V20 Lore of the Bloodlines
  • Prince’s Gambit – Kickstarter Prep.
  • Dark Eras Companion – artist shenanigans.
  • C20  With Aileen



  • Necropolis Rio – backer PDF out to Mummy KS backers last week, gathering errata.
  • EX3 Tomb of Dreams Jumpstart – first proof.


At Press

  • Ex 3 Scree– Shipping to fulfillment shippers.
  • Ex 3 core book – Shipping to fulfillment shippers. Addresses being gathered from KS and assembled for shippers.
  • Secrets of the Covenants – Updated and processing.
  • Beckett Screen – Printer shipping to shipper.
  • W20 Shattered Dreams – Shipping to fulfillment shippers.
  • Shattered Dreams Screen – Printer shipping to shipper.
  • Beast Conquering Heroes – Inputting errata and prepping for press.
  • Mortal Remains: Beast- Red In Tooth and Claw – Gathered errata.
  • Pugmire – Backer PDF out to backers.
  • Wise and the Wicked PF & 5e – Out to backers.
  • Dark Eras : Fallen Blossoms – Files uploaded and processing.
  • Dark Eras: Beneath the Skin – Wrapping up the PoD prep.




TODAY’S REASON TO CELEBRATE: Happy Birthday, Joel Hodgson! MST3K Maestro and another creator who discovered the amazing reach of Kickstarter. Gamera is a friend to all children.







86 responses to “Bucking Broncos! [Monday Meeting Notes]”

  1. Zyfram Avatar

    Do I see Geist 2nd Edition is in 2nd draft?


  2. Brennen Avatar

    Here’s to hoping Ex 3 gets shipped this week!!!!!! ^^

    1. richt Avatar

      More likely next week, but it’s possible some will get out this week. That’s all up the the shippers now!

  3. Second Chances Avatar
    Second Chances

    A Thousand Years of Night Moving up! Awesome! Fingers crossed the artist shenanigans on Dark Eras resolve soon.

    1. richt Avatar

      They are.

      1. Second Chances Avatar
        Second Chances

        Okay, so I just got caught up on the “situation.” Rich, Onyx Path is an has always been a class act. You have been ahead of the curve in caring for and representing people in RPGs. The people you hire are not only fantastic writers, but fantastic human beings. I’m deeply disappointed by White Wolf and won’t be buying any of their products, but I’m going to stick it out with OPP. You guys have earned it, and this isn’t your fault. Thank you for all you have done.

        1. richt Avatar

          Thank you so much! Our whole team appreciates it.

  4. Anaximander Avatar

    Glad to hear you are on the mend at last, Rich. (Are we attributing your illness to the Wraith Curse or no?)

    What I wouldn’t give to wake up married to a bunch of Vikings… Heh.

    1. richt Avatar

      No, I leave Wraith Curse manifestations to RichD. 🙂

  5. Sprucestripedgoose Avatar

    Do you worry that in a situation like the one that just cropped up where some of your staff publicly disagree with White Wolf’s decisions that it might sour the licenser/licensee relationship? I’m not saying that they shouldn’t feel the way they do, I totally agree with and share their concern, but do you not have the connections to share them privately first?

    1. richt Avatar

      Our actual staff of five pretty much have kept out of the discussions.

      1. Sprucestripedgoose Avatar

        Sorry, I said “staff” but more meant significant writers. Some of your freelance dev/writters are kinda a face for Onyx Path as much as the proper “staff”.

        1. richt Avatar

          Onyx Path does not and will not police the private accounts of our freelancers on social media. Besides the logistical impossibility of covering every social media venue for our several hundred contributors, they are freelance contractors and we actually do not have the right to do so. I have on occasion had informal conversations about certain postings, but those happen as needed, and very infrequently.

  6. Cat of Many Faces Avatar
    Cat of Many Faces

    How does the licensing work? will any of the money I spend on werewolf or mage go back to paradox? how about beast or exalted?

    This whole thing is really disturbing and i know this is not OPP’s fault, but I’d still like to know.

    1. richt Avatar

      I pretty much have said what I have room to say about the licensing arrangement. As a typical sort of arrangement, monies are exchanged for the rights to access to the IPs.

      1. Cat of Many Faces Avatar
        Cat of Many Faces

        I do want to reassure you that i know this is NOT OPP’s fault. I love you guys and your work.

        It’s going to be hard to figure out what i need to do about this as a consumer.

        I just hope it all works out i suppose 🙁

        1. richt Avatar

          Follow your heart, I think. Although there is a good interpretation of Onyx Path’s position by commenter Diggs here, if you want to see one way to think about it. 🙂

  7. wyrdhamster Avatar

    Would not better be to point that those interactive dramas are for Masquerade and Ascension? Writing only ‘Vampire’ and ‘Mage’ can lead to confusion, when there are two games each on those main titles.

    1. richt Avatar

      Only speaking of them in reference to the two games that were published by Asmodee in this blog. It’s not an ad.

  8. Teylen Avatar

    I am a bit confused that you claim that none of the White Wolf stuff has ties back to the original one when, to my knowledge, Shane was part of the White Wolf of the 90ties.

    1. Ian A. A. Watson Avatar
      Ian A. A. Watson

      Rich explicitly said “None of them is a creator or executive from the original White Wolf.”

      1. Teylen Avatar

        Then leave it just as a remark.
        As the vibe that I got from the notes pretty much been to point out that White Wolf isn’t White Wolf, at all.

        Though it might be influenced by RPG.net discussions where the emphasis on setting ‘new’ or ‘nu’ before every time White Wolf mentioned is intended as an expression of a (micro) aggression and a (small) slight towards them.

        1. richt Avatar

          My intention is to be sure that readers know which entity I am speaking about, which was a large part of the point of this blog. New WWP has been accused of publishing several books from the 90’s the poster didn’t like, for example. That’s not fair at all.

    2. richt Avatar

      Never said he wasn’t, but he was never in a position to make those decisions that some people think the new WW made.

  9. Ephraim Avatar

    I have loved White Wolf in all it’s many weird and wonderful variations. Werewolf the Apocalypse 2nd editon was my very first game. And despite it having many issues it gave our gaming group years of entertainment. I guess I cam full circle here a while back with Werewolf the Forsaken 2nd edition that I see as maybe one of the best products I have bought from Onyx Path. Im still playing it on a weekly basis. Still find new and exiting things about your games.

    But sadly.. This seems to be it.

    As I already stated I will not support WWP based on this controversy.

    As for OPP:

    I need to understand: Do portions of the money I pay for a OPP product go to WWP?

    If so: Im sorry but I cannot continue to support the games I love. Maybe Scion maybe Trinity. But lets just say: Im mostly here for your excellent Werewolf, Hunter, Vampire and Changeling.

    And that is really not your fault at all. Nor any of OPP’s great, diverse freelancers and staff.

    I fully understand that this is a complex scenario for OPP, but I cannot condone what WWP has done here.

    Im sure there are nice people there too, but honestly this is a pretty uncool situation for a lot of us.

    1. richt Avatar

      Do what you feel you need to do.

  10. Bogatyr1 Avatar

    @CatOfManyFaces Licensing usually involves a “licensing fee” for a contractually agreed upon period of time (with another fee paying for renewal of the rights upon expiration) and also “residuals” are commonly built in where for each product sold Paradox will get X amount of money per thingamajig for the IPs they hold, which are “WoD, nWoD called now Chronicles of Darkness, and Exalted”.

    OP own Scion and the Trinity game lines outright as OP bought them fully from CCP, so OP now pays no license fee or residuals to Paradox because OP are the rights holders.

    OP are co-owners of the Scarred Lands, another purchase from CCP but this time with Nocturnal Media. Therefore OP and Nocturnal media share profits from Scarred Lands projects without either having to pay each other license fees or residuals unless they want to be contractual fancy-pants.

    OP also are in creative partnerships that are effectively licenses with Pugmire and Cavaliers of Mars, two totally new games totally unconnected to any iteration of WW. Therefore OP pays license fees and residuals to the original creators of these IPs without Paradox having anything to do with it, and distributes the books, etc. created by these creators under OP.

    They signatories of these various deals may not want to discuss the specific structure of the agreements as it may hamper future negotiations and sales of the IPs at play, or make various parties look stupid and bad at valuation or negotiating if they failed to correctly gauge the market value of these IPs through the coming decades.

    So, in conclusion, if you give OP money, the profit they make may at some point go into paying license fees or residuals to Paradox, who deal with the game-writer fellow who they claim on their website is innocent according to thorough(?) investigation on their part.

    The use of this fellow might constitute a breach of licensing contract if there were assurances that Paradox would not damage the IP during the license period with carelessness or malpractice, but Paradox may have more money to draw upon to hire lawyers, etc. if a court case went to trial, so that would be a risky move that would also sour the ability of OP to work with Paradox after the license-period expires, and drain both sides of money with legal fees that could instead go to promoting WW properties that make the license more valuable for both OP and Paradox.

    1. richt Avatar

      Thanks for going through the list of what is a license and what is not, again, because it really is necessary. As the IP owner, the new WWP can do as they think best for the health of those IPs. That’s not Onyx’s call to make.

  11. Andrew McGraw Avatar
    Andrew McGraw

    A fellow bronchitis sufferer commiserates with you, Rich. Caught it around Thanksgiving, still hacking up some phlegm. Yick.

    Anyway, I have faith that this latest fiasco will be settled morally and that Onyx Path will do whatever is necessary to ensure a safe and welcoming environment for everyone they can. In such good faith, I’ll continue to give Onyx Path my money.

    1. richt Avatar

      Yes, it’s a lung process. See what I did there? _hack_ _cough_!

      We all very much appreciate your faith and support- thanks!

  12. nifoc Avatar

    Could people calm down a little.

    Rich is clearly trying to stay professional on this issue, some of his statements clearly point out that there are things he cannot go into. There might even be issues in the licensing agreement which may prevent him from being overly critical of WW.

    OPP has always strived to be inclusive, to avoid the cultural appropriation that was rampant in the old WW and to communicate clearly and openly with us, the community of fans. They cannot be held responsible for what nWW is doing.

    Now, if OPP does much better than expected and WW falls flat on its’ face over this…that’s a win in my book.

    And Rich, get well soon, I appreciate you coming here to try to clear things up as much as you can despite the bronchitis.

    1. richt Avatar

      Thanks for your thoughts here, they are very much appreciated!

  13. Victor J Kinzer Avatar
    Victor J Kinzer

    I’d like to second the appreciation for you adding clarity to this while sick. That is a brutal situation. I hope you kick this soon. I also just want to say I appreciate what you do here at OPP. The couple times I have seen concerns of one sort or another in open dev and I’ve weighed in changes were made and I felt valued and listened to. I think that’s what the fans are looking for now from WWP in a lot of ways. Not having any history with the game I didn’t end up backing Scion. Let’s just say given recent events I am looking forward to backing Aeon Trinity later this year.

    1. richt Avatar

      Well, Victor, you can still “pre-order” Scion here: https://scion-2nd-edition-tabletop-rpg.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders



      1. Victor J Kinzer Avatar
        Victor J Kinzer

        Thanks. I might. I over purchased on RPGs last year to be honest and have WAY more games than I can possibly setup games for coming in this year. I’m watching Scion pretty carefully though as it looks like a really exciting game, and I am definitely throwing money at Aeon since I have a long history with that world.

  14. Shan The Wolf Avatar
    Shan The Wolf

    Please feel better Rich. Those of us who can, support OPP, even if it means giving a little money to people we would rather not. Keep the Exalted flowing 😛 (that’s me being a fanboy, ignore it. Please feel better, bronchitis can be terrible)

    1. richt Avatar

      Thanks, I’m hoping it is on its way out at this point.

  15. Caleb Cushing Avatar

    Can you/would you buy Chronicles from them? they don’t seem to have much interest in it.

    As far as the new mobile… whatevers, I haven’t purchased, couldn’t figure out from the play store exactly what I was buying.

    Although it was bloodlines that got me into Vampire, that was 13 years ago, and at that time Masquerade was dead, so I got into “Chronicles”. Currently haven’t decided to pick up Masquerade again, and the current political landscape isn’t changing my mind on that. I might play video games or watch TV shows, but I don’t have time/money/patience to invest in a second RPG universe.

    Either way it seems we’ll have similar to what’s going on with Warhammer, which is a myriad of products and quality, and that’s fine.

    1. richt Avatar

      Yes, my impression is that GW has been using an aggressive licensing model for awhile now. So that’s a good comparison, I think. I’m sure that WWP does not want to sell the WW IPs right now, but if they do, we’d be interested! 😉

  16. Tiresias Avatar

    I’m not entirely comfortable discussing the drama here, since I wasn’t around when it happened and I don’t think it’s fair to make it OPP’s problem when it really shouldn’t be. I didn’t find the WoD Preludes all that interesting in the first place, but I’m definitely not getting it now and I’ll have to wait and see what the community has to say about future WW products before getting them (and I do appreciate the community’s warning about the problems).

    On a completely unrelated matter, can any fellow Canadians let me know how shipping works for OPP Kickstarter rewards around here? I missed the delivery when Canada Post delivered my passport a few weeks ago and getting it from the post office was harder than voting, so if it’s possible, I’d like to know how the Ex3 shipping is handled.

    1. richt Avatar

      From what I’m told, it’s a matter of weight. A package which is just a book may go out best with Canada Post, but something with a couple of books and screens and the map may be better sent using a shipping service. I really don’t engage on the nuts and bolts of the shipping once we nail down the best packaging to preserve the rewards, and the shipper has proven they know what they’re doing.

  17. Kerensky Avatar

    Is there any chance that OPP could buy the Chronicles lines outright, like Scion, etc.? Now that you guys are firing on all cylinders with the second editions, I would hate to see something ruin it by having a licensing conflict take them away from OPP.

    Or am I just being paranoid in thinking that WW would cause problems if/when they encounter pushback from questionable business decisions?

    1. richt Avatar

      They have no current interest in selling any of the WW IPs, and are focused on licensing possibilities. Ah, you know, it’s a license so we have always accepted that stuff like that _could_ happen, but so far, no, they’ve been great to work with.

  18. Anthony Elmer Avatar
    Anthony Elmer

    Glad to see you on the mend, my friend. Viking weddings can be exhausting, as is evident here and with other forms of social media.

    I love my WW games, but I also Love my OPP games. I actually will not be running any games this year at Gencon, sadly though. Wife is out of work, and my Bulldog needs a surgery. As always, I wish you guys well, and will forgo seeing you all this year for next it would seem.

    That being said, I struggle to see what people don’t get here. Most of us ( that I know anyways) Were tabletop gaming when another publisher ( no names, but rhymes with Lizards of the Ghost) opened licensing up for their recently acquired product. WW even had some of that licensing, and no one batted an eye.

    Flash forward a decade and a half, and suddenly no one seems to get it. But then again, I’m old so maybe I’m just reminiscing about times bygone.

    Anyways, feel better soon, and thanks for the update.

    1. richt Avatar

      I think we’ve gotta remember that a lot of the WW audience did not engage with the d20 craze, and so that context and experience isn’t something they’ve dealt with. At that time, we even created the Sword and Sorcery umbrella brand to separate awareness of which games were being published.

  19. WarholAethyr Avatar

    Seconding or thirding my appreciation here for OPP’s commitment to inclusive, high-quality work. Personally, I think Requiem 2e/Blood & Smoke is the best book ever written in any of the World of Darkness lines. I have a lot of new/young players I’m getting into gaming, and it is *so great* that I don’t have to try to excuse any of the art or cultural references. My players are inspired by seeing characters like us. Keep up the good work!

    1. richt Avatar

      Fantastic! That is so great to hear- thanks!

  20. Jonathan Avatar

    Chronicles of Darkness (2004-present) and the X20 lines are the only World of Darkness I know (I was aware of the games but didn’t actually play any until one of my friends introduced our group to Mage: the Awakening six-ish years ago). That’s plenty of material to keep me busy for the rest of my life. Whatever WW did before then and whatever the new WW does in the future doesn’t matter to me. OPP has consistently delivered solid products and stories so that’s where my money goes.

    On that note, definitely looking forward to the launch of Scion 2e. And thanks for posting that pre-order link, Rich. I’ve got a few people that have been waiting for it.

    1. richt Avatar

      I noticed that we got a couple of orders after I posted it, so thanks to you and your people! I might need to add a section to BLURBS! for links to BackerKit sites.

      1. Jonathan Avatar

        Mentioning any active BackerKits in the BLURBS! section would be excellent. Either that or a banner added to the top (I believe you had one during the Kickstarter itself, actually).

        Also, our group’s usual Storyteller has already responded to my message saying she’s going to pre-order. 🙂

        1. richt Avatar

          Love to hear that! Thanks-

  21. Ian A. A. Watson Avatar
    Ian A. A. Watson

    Thanks to everyone for all the positive words and support. It’s always heartening to hear, and we really appreciate it.

    1. Victor J Kinzer Avatar
      Victor J Kinzer

      We really do appreciate the quality and energy you’ve brought to these game lines. When I was able to start buying my favorite stories again it was like a whole part of my life that had been lost was found again. Once I’m able to get my hands on Wraith and Changeling titles again that experience will be complete. It’s easy to just think of this as a hobby, but for a lot of us it’s a pretty defining social dynamic and source of collective identifying narrative.

  22. Josh Avatar

    Hey Rich,

    I read the posting about the relations between WW and OP, can you speak on the relationship between either and BNS (By Night Studios) the Live Action Roleplaying game (I think it took over MET) are they their own organization, are they tied to either/both. The have some great ideas and have hopes for the future of all three organizations. Cough, cough, Matt D. needs a raise, oops I think I caught the Bronchitis too…. 😉

    PS: PUGMIRE!!! WOOO Starting my first GM session in 2 weeks!!!

    1. richt Avatar

      BNS is a licensee of the new WWP just like we are. Other than liking a whole bunch of their team, I really don’t have much more info- you’d have to ask them.

  23. neaden Avatar

    Hi Rich, is there any rough date on when to expect the Deviant kickstarter, or even if it will be this year or next? Thank you.

    1. richt Avatar

      We still hope to run it this year, yes.

      1. neaden Avatar

        Thank you, I look forward to seeing it!

    2. Josh Avatar

      I may have missed some information, so I looked up the details on this ‘Deviant: the Renegade’ game… You got my support too…

  24. Jessica Orsini Avatar

    I’ll continue to be strongly supporting of Onyx Path, because (1) you guys are constantly raising the social bar in your products, (2) had nothing to do with this, and (3) have no choice but to pay the licensing fees if you want to still produce products.

    1. richt Avatar

      Thanks! 1) We try and continue to do more, 2) We were informed by the new WWP about the products coming, but learned the details when ya’ll did, 3) the nature of having a license, yep.

  25. Harald Hellerud Avatar
    Harald Hellerud

    My two cents, Rich: You and Onyx Path are doing an excellent job of staying professional when practically no-one else is. You have my support, for what it’s worth.

    1. richt Avatar

      It is worth a whole lot to us. Like any new company, we had our ups and downs these past five years, and moving forward into the next five knowing we have your support is awesome- Thanks!

  26. richt Avatar

    Just an FYI, we got a couple of posts here asking what the big problem was that I’m referring to. The reason I did not outline it here was that I don’t want our comments section to be a new site for this continuing battle. So I deleted those posts, not because I don’t want to hear from you all, but to keep the conflict elsewhere.

  27. Peter Dorow Avatar
    Peter Dorow

    Completely unrelated to the whole thing:

    I have heard/read somewhere about OPP studying ways to make Deluxe print-on-demand possible. Any news on that?

    1. richt Avatar

      We are not, although I’d certainly be interested in reviewing the tech and the pricing for a single copy if anyone claims to be able to do it.

  28. Jason Avatar

    Get well soon Rich, those chest colds suck the big one. Drink hot tea with lemon and honey if you like it and glad to see that C20, M20 BoS and such are very close to the finish line among the other finished or near finished projects.

  29. Richn Avatar

    Cant wait till the Lore of The Bloodlines is released. Not been a member long but as its in layout does that mean it has a few steps to go before release?

    1. richt Avatar

      Still needs to go through Layout proofing, backer PDFs, errata, final PDF, PoD. Maybe an Indexing step in there.

  30. Diggs Avatar

    As a person ignorant of the controversy, I was confused as to whether it was Chronicles of Darkness or World of Darkness lines that Asmodee was using. I looked it up so no issue, but it might be worth it to be more specific to avoid escalations. I’ve seen plenty of fear that the big bad White Wolf is going to screw up Chronicles of Darkness.

    @People complaining about WWP licenses
    I assume Onyx Path pays royalties to WWP for products licensed. Let’s say it is a fairly typical 10%. Refusing to buy products made by Onyx Path would mean they would lose 90% while still paying the cost to make the product, in this example case. WWP will take the license and give it to someone else due to low sales and Onyx Path loses on future profits so the people that would most get hurt by refusing to buy Onyx Path products is Onyx Path.

    If someone objects to something WWP has done then by all means don’t buy any products they create. I think Onyx Path should be left out of WWP drama because they have no control over WWP. I know Onyx Path makes money from products created under WWP licenses because they continue to make the products. Anyone that likes Onyx Path products and as a company should not let WWP discourage them from buying Onyx Path. The actual and potential harm to Onyx Path will certainly outweigh harm to WWP.

    1. richt Avatar

      Thanks for your thoughts about the situation and how it impacts Onyx Path. As for the first part, nah, you folks are smart people and can figure it out with a google search. It wasn’t an announcement, it wasn’t an ad, and I was referring to specific projects not our own.

  31. Nocte ex Mortis Avatar
    Nocte ex Mortis

    Rich, I’ve been part of this community for (wow, really?) two decades now, and you guys, and you in particular, have always dealt with people in the way I like most: No BS, the things you can tell us are put out there for us with as little spin as you can manage. I have always genuinely appreciated that from you, and the whole team.

    That said, I know there’s a part of you, no matter how small, that was at least perturbed by what happened, but you’re a professional and things like this happen. It’s business. Y’all have had my support for twenty years, and I don’t plan to stop supporting OPP any time soon. There’s a bit of stink-eye from me towards Paradox over this, but that’s an emotional response, not a reasonable one.

    I am still 100% behind OPP, and man am I looking forward to finally having my super deluxe Exalted book and then looking into Pugmire seriously.

    1. richt Avatar

      Thank you, and I am working on the EX3 KS data sheets to send to the shippers right now, actually. It’s going to take a lot of time to put all the info into order as there are just so many backers and so many add-ons… a huge reason we added BackerKit’s data gathering to the back-end of recent Kickstarters.

  32. Dusksage Avatar

    Hey Rich, hope you feel better soon.

    Just want to give my own appreciation to the Path and it’s many talented writers as well. Your products are not only exceptional in quality, but they also have helped to make me a better person by exploring the questions and themes they present. You’ve all rightfully earned my trust and confidence as both a consumer and tabletop RPG hobbyist, and greatly look forward to the Path’s future projects and products.

    1. richt Avatar

      Thank you, that means a lot to all of us!

  33. Axel Avatar

    Keep on trucking, dude.

    The Onyx Path has proven time and again to be devoted to creating not just good products but also an inclusive environment. That’s worth supporting, even if a bit of it goes back to a company that seems willing to shrug its shoulders.

    Keep up the good work.

    1. richt Avatar

      Thanks! Appreciate that you’ve thought it through!

  34. […] Tumblr da Onyx Path, o próprio Richard Thomas faz questão de destacar que, embora a sua editora tenha agora muitos […]

  35. Ekorren Avatar

    I think most fans agree that there is only one WoD that really matters to people, and that’s the content OPP produces. Hopefully nuWWP realizes soon that we’re not interested in Martin’s vision. We’re interested in OPP’s vision. From what I’ve read, it seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot.

    1. richt Avatar

      Well, I don’t know about all that (as much as I appreciate the sentiment), but Onyx Path is going to be around for quite a while making a variety of games and worlds, so hopefully if you still feel the same way after V5 comes out as an RPG book and you’ll check out some of Onyx’s game lines.

  36. Bob Avatar

    I am doubtful it does much good for Onyx Path to call for the boycotting of the products of the license holder and its subsidiaries and organizing doxxing in the official Onyx Path forums with moderator sanction against an employee of another licensee of said company for disagreeing with the politics of an Onyx Path employee over twitter.

    Just my two cents.

    That and the irony of calling out problematic representation with such a tearful article while forgetting that Onyx Path is facing the same criticism for how it portrays LGBT people and ideologies.

    I just find the entire thing to be extremely two faced and opportunistic. I’m sure the local yes men will vehemently disagree though.

    1. richt Avatar

      Please provide links to where Onyx Path has called for boycotting? What I said, quite clearly, is that individuals need to do what they feel they need to do. Whether to boycott, and whether to boycott the new WWP and/or Onyx itself has been a question many in our community have been wrestling with.

      Also, please provide links to where anyone on our forums has called for doxxing. There has been a lot of angry people venting, but that’s our community right now. And while you’re at it, please provide links to where Onyx has been criticized for how we portray LGBT people. We’re certainly not perfect, but we are always trying to improve. Thanks!

      1. Victor J Kinzer Avatar
        Victor J Kinzer

        I also want to throw in 2 cents here, as a gay man, who has a long history of activism in the LGBTQ+ community and who plays with a wide variety of queer identified individuals OPP has always stood out as an exemplary example of representation within gaming.

        I don’t want to feed into the “well I know this one person from a marginalized community who thinks this is fine so . . .” narrative. My interpretation is anedcodtal as is the response of the majority of people I play with. Even taking my experience in that spirit I have to say the discussions of gender identity in the M20 books are especially standout as being nuanced, non sensationalized, and non objectifying. I’m sure there is some text somewhere that isn’t entirely ideal, because as you say above about WW it’s nearly impossible to produce as much content as you have without tripping occasionally, but your clear effort to consistently do better than you have in the past shows in your work at every level.

        1. richt Avatar

          Thank you, Victor.

    2. Josh Avatar


      Just my 2 cents, but I have not seen ANY discussion of doxxing nor have I seen anyone from OP indicate that there needs to be boycotting of WW. The only things discussed were between members of the forum and that is to be expected.

      1. richt Avatar

        Yep. That’s been my experience as well. Thanks!